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Couple of thoughts on homosexuality.

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Kalasin

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Some of you may know that I’m an evangelical Christian, and that I therefore believe that the Bible is infallible. Traditionally, evangelical Christians condemned homosexuality as a sin. Thus, I have wrestled with the issue of homosexuality for some time, because I’m a part of both the Christian sub-culture of New Zealand and the wider New Zealand culture, which often conflict over this issue.

Essentially, although I still haven’t ultimately made up my mind about this, I have been slowly coming to the conclusion that the act of homosexual sex is indeed wrong. This is for several reasons. I believe that men and women are equal yet complementary partners, and that this partnership is best suited to raising children. The problem is, we live in a fallen world, and thus there are many distortions in nature, which include homosexual attraction. However, this, in my view, is not the way that the Creator intended us to live. This is reflected by the rise in AIDS and other sexual diseases which came about because of the sexual revolution of the twentieth century, and the disproportionate rate of sexual diseases among homosexuals in comparison with heterosexuals. This, in itself, is reason enough to have serious questions about whether or not homosexuality is right or wrong.

The primary purpose of this little article is not actually to debate about whether or not homosexuality is sinful, however. It’s rather to make the point that there is a spectrum of people who hold that homosexuality is sinful. On the far end of the spectrum you have the Westboro Baptist Church, who apparently walk around in the southern United States with placards reading ‘God hates fags’ and the like (I don’t live in the US, so I don’t know how big they actually are.) In my opinion this is absolutely obscene. It’s so incredibly insensitive and unloving, and it’s totally contradictory to what Christ commanded. And here we reach the other end of the spectrum.

My own position is that every human being is ultimately equal, and equally loved by God, regardless of what their sexual orientation is or what they have done. Even if homosexuality is a sin, it doesn’t really make much difference, because ultimately everyone is equally filthy in God’s sight, and in equal need of forgiveness. Thus, the homosexual is no worse to anyone else. God’s love is unconditional. It’s not dependent on a person’s sexual orientation or anything else. This sort of love has nothing to do with liking anyone, it’s merely a deep care about a person and a desire for their welfare. Christ calls us to love everyone in this way, which admittedly I really struggle with, being a fallen human being myself. Being perfect is really hard lol! To take an example from CN, I found and continue to find it really difficult to love Cortath after the way he treated me, and I often slip up. This doesn’t disprove the validity of what I’m saying, though.

So essentially, I believe that we should love homosexuals, and treat them with gentleness and respect, while not accepting homosexual activity as right. It’s a difficult line to walk and inevitably there will be times when Christians will be insensitive and hurt people’s feelings, and that is cause for an apology. I don’t believe that my position is bigoted or homophobic, though. Those adjectives are bandied around far too widely. Use the term strictly for those who merit it.

And as one final aside, we need to love the Westboro Baptist Church lot too, even though they may be hateful and angry. Think about it.

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The Westboro Baptist church is extremely small. It attracts a lot of media attention because of its extreme views, and its habit of picketing various events, but it is a single church in Topeka, Kansas, whose membership numbers are probably in the high double digits.

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I had Westboro Baptist Church protest outside of my high school last year. It was only 3 people who showed up, including a 8 year old boy. Westboro Baptist Church is mostly family members of the founder and is in no way a widespread group or belief. They've gained widespread media but that is about it.

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re: Westboro, Haf is correct(that hurt..) per Wiki they had 71 members in '07.

Its my humble opinion these people(and i use this word VERY loosely) dont even deserve the mud from my shoes, These are the folks who claim all those soldiers lost in the (stupid) war in the middle east is because the US supports homosexuality. Theyve picketed funerals for dead soldiers. iirc they wanted to protest that little kids funeral who was killed in the Arizona shooting, likewise they protested Elizabeth Edwards' funeral

As far as homosexuality goes, i whole heartedly support gay marriage. that ought to sum up my thoughts on that matter :P

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And as one final aside, we need to love the Westboro Baptist Church lot too, even though they may be hateful and angry. Think about it.

Isn't Westboro Baptist church that bunch of dick-weeds that protested at the return home/funeral of deceased soldiers?

If it is, all they deserve is a solid kick in the testicles.

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I think that God wants all of us to be happy and if liking your same gender makes you happy then so be it. I wonder though, since I don't believe that homosexuality is a choice, that why did God make some gay?

I love the book btw.

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Interesting tidbit about the Westbuo Baptist Church, in 2007 it had just 71 members, and Fred Phelps has 12 children, several of which are lawyers (arguably a successful tactic as many times as they've been sued)

At any rate, I don't particularly love them.

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Wow, a paradox, since pride is one of the seven deadly sins.

Christians are wrought with paradox, I think they even have a commandment that states they shouldnt place another god above thier own (the god of abraham) which dosent jive with the whole christ mythos. Fun stuff, sadly its like hearing the same song on the radio over and over, it looses its luster and its short comings become painfully obvious.

Case and point is the opening sentence of this blog, although the title certainly caught my attention.

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Even if homosexuality is a sin, it doesn’t really make much difference, because ultimately everyone is equally filthy in God’s sight, and in equal need of forgiveness. Thus, the homosexual is no worse to anyone else.

Paul has an argument to counter this view, though it's not specific to homosexuality. There was a view going around in his time that sinning was alright because all was forgiven and thus more sin would equate receiving more forgiveness. Paul responded to that by saying, "certainly not!" (in the Greek one of the strongest rebuttals he could make), that sin of any kind saddens God and that just because it is forgiven doesn't mean that it's any less bad. Furthermore, the reason homosexuality (and all sexual sins) are regarded as more serious than the rest is not only because they are contrary to God's designs for humans, but also they are a sin against oneself. Basically, as far as the Bible is concerned there is no such thing as a victim-less crime.

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I'd just like to happily state that like the earlier "bible-based" views on so-called miscegenation, this viewpoint is slowly dying out as people come into contact with gay people and find out that really, they're just like us.

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Christians are wrought with paradox, I think they even have a commandment that states they shouldnt place another god above thier own (the god of abraham) which dosent jive with the whole christ mythos. Fun stuff, sadly its like hearing the same song on the radio over and over, it looses its luster and its short comings become painfully obvious.

Case and point is the opening sentence of this blog, although the title certainly caught my attention.

I fully agree. Having been born into a Lutheran family, it took a while for me to shake off the desire to remain a member of faith. Faith is blind. I prefer to come up with my own conclusions on how I should live my life, and I'm much, much happier for it.

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This is reflected by the rise in AIDS and other sexual diseases which came about because of the sexual revolution of the twentieth century

Man has sex with monkey, people have more sex in general, who to blame? Homosexuals, of course!

and the disproportionate rate of sexual diseases among homosexuals in comparison with heterosexuals.

[citation needed]

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Even if homosexuality is a sin, it doesn’t really make much difference, because ultimately everyone is equally filthy in God’s sight, and in equal need of forgiveness.

Ha ha ha, oh jeez. Original sin? What a perfect way to corral the ignorant into celestial debt before they are even born. What a fantastically effective scam. I can't believe this is still official doctrine.

There is no sin, only social mores masquerading as divine instruction.

While I commend you on putting thought into this, it seems that the conclusion you came to was one preordained by your upbringing, probably the same pronouncement your parents or preacher would have come to, and so not actually an original thought at all. Keep searching. Try outside of your community.

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Christians are wrought with paradox, I think they even have a commandment that states they shouldnt place another god above thier own (the god of abraham) which dosent jive with the whole christ mythos.

According to the Bible, Christ is in submission to God the Father (the God of Abraham that you spoke about). Beyond that, they have a Triune nature, but that debate isn't going to go anywhere on these blogs! :awesome:

There certainly are paradoxes within Christianity. This is not one.

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Come to think of it if internet trolls ever left their basement i think they would be the WBC...cus theres no WAY these people can be serious

Most internet trolls are a good deal more socially adept than Phelps and his gang.

Those guys are like a kind of bizarro-world über-troll movement.

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According to the Bible, Christ is in submission to God the Father (the God of Abraham that you spoke about). Beyond that, they have a Triune nature, but that debate isn't going to go anywhere on these blogs! :awesome:

There certainly are paradoxes within Christianity. This is not one.

Yes it is

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I had here a big paragraph regarding "everyone is filthy in God's sight" ad then i decided to read page 2 of comments before posting. I see it alludes to what is called "The Original Sin" . For someone that was brought up in a religion that is full of some petty "far out" mythological stories, somehow, the entire "Original Sin" business has seemed more far out than anything else. Just because it is the classical case of getting the hook in, and then reeling them in at your leisure.

With that being the dogma, the creed, you just cant win. Your life is one long penance even if you want to do everything right. Not just yours, but of all mankind for all generations to come. I doubt if god is so mean as to subject his alleged best creation to such an existence, for all time, with no hope of redemption.

Feel free to tell me "Strange are His ways and it is not for us to question them". But then it is Him that gave us the ability to question. I r confused now.

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