Dear Archon

[Schad]

[quote name='SpiderJerusalem' timestamp='1296063757' post='2602882']

To better illustrate my point, I have a selection of Machiavelli quotes (not that I expect everyone to understand them either... *cough* )
[/quote]

Heh, as with most people citing his work favourably, I don't think those quotes mean what you think that they mean.

[ooc]Machiavelli was a republican, and he wrote [i]Il Principe[/i] after being tortured and exiled by the dynastic rulers of Florence (to whom he dedicated the work). For a long time, it was considered a settled fact that it's a sort of satire/expose for the Florentine public, an exposition on what rulers such as the Medici actually did (by way of detailing their methods) rather than a description of what they [i]should[/i] do. Somehow that perspective became lost to history, and it took on the mantle of how-to manual for tyrants; with Machiavelli pretty dead, it's somewhat difficult to answer definitively. So in any event, unironically quoting him while passing judgment on the ability of your lessers to understand such works makes you look a mite silly.[/ooc]

[Rheebrosinc_1337]

very very good read. Thanks man!

[SpiderJerusalem]

[quote name='Geoffron X' timestamp='1296067313' post='2602952']
Citation needed.
[/quote]

Sure thing!

Imperial Regent: [url=http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=5921]Mary the Fantabulous[/url]


[quote name='Schad' timestamp='1296068173' post='2602979']
[ooc]Machiavelli was a republican, and he wrote [i]Il Principe[/i] after being tortured and exiled by the dynastic rulers of Florence (to whom he dedicated the work). For a long time, it was considered a settled fact that it's a sort of satire/expose for the Florentine public, an exposition on what rulers such as the Medici actually did (by way of detailing their methods) rather than a description of what they [i]should[/i] do. Somehow that perspective became lost to history, and it took on the mantle of how-to manual for tyrants; with Machiavelli pretty dead, it's somewhat difficult to answer definitively. So in any event, unironically quoting him while passing judgment on the ability of your lessers to understand such works makes you look a mite silly.[/ooc]
[/quote]

[OOC]As a huge fan of Machiavelli, I do know this. However, I assume that most don't know his entire back story, and that those who do won't disclose it (they never have before ). This of course, means that citing him makes it all the more fun for a geek like me.[/OOC]

[Tygaland]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1296062724' post='2602864']
"Captain Morality" . . . has a nice ring to it. Did you guys pick that name while I was at ZI for 9 months for your sake? Or just later when it became apparent that I'm the real deal while you're not?
[/quote]

Hey, back off buddy. Morality is my turf!

[Mack Truck]

[quote name='Fallen Fool' timestamp='1296064660' post='2602900']
How did I miss this gem?

Propaganda serves two distinct purpose in rallying external support for a cause and maintaining internal morale. Given the nature of the "EVERYTHING MUST DIE" slogan, I'd assume it was meant more for the latter and not the former. What's ironic is the same nature apparently undermines the external support facet to such an extent that you have needed to publicly backpedal on the entire campaign by labeling it mindless propaganda, which pretty much undermines any effects on internal morale by exposing its foundation as meaningless.

So congratulations! You're incompetent!
[/quote]

No, explaining the slogan to the OWF hasn't negatively affected our morale because we always understood what it meant. Other folk on our side, especially those in Doomhouse, also seem to have understood it just fine.

[Qaianna]

[quote name='Epiphanus' timestamp='1296067168' post='2602949']
The morality which you are talking about is separate from the defined (or undefined) version of "moralist" that CN is plagued with. You can disagree with me whether it is a plague, but to me, the moralist stance is not a healthy one for the good of CN. If we all just got along and sang hippy songs together, we'd all be versions of the GPA. If an alliance chooses to partake in the competitive part of CN, which includes global politics, then they do so at their own risk. No one is averse to people creating their own RP communities separate from the CN community at large. Alliances like GPA and WTF have done a pretty good job over the years. However, when you step into the true muck and grime of CN politics, it is all about personal gains for you and yours. Anyone who argues that they play CN politics to get along with everyone is either lying or disillusioned. Cybernations has a war component for a reason.

I'm not saying that we don't need some values in this game. You are right that a foundation of trust must occur for anyone to get along. Without some level of morality the world would delve into chaos. However, saying we all have to be moralists for the world to survive is taking your definition of morality to the extreme. It's obvious you understand this by your first statement. However, if you fall into the hive-mind of collective people spouting off about what you call moralistic issues involved in our actions, then I have every right to type-cast you into the mold you are filling so well. It's like a shoe trying to say that he's not a shoe because he's actually a basketball shoe. A shoe is a shoe, whether you think you are different from all the other shoes out there or you don't want to be called a shoe because you say you aren't a shoe, the fact remains you are still a shoe.

We all have a different grasp on the level of morality that is needed in the world. Those who adhere to strict moral codes get called moralists. If you want to spout of rhetoric from that mindset, you will get called a moralist whether you like it or not.
[/quote]
I think one issue is that a certain set of people have turned 'moralist' into a snarl-word, used to stifle debate with the ridicule of jeering masses rather than actually answer questions.

And I think that's what I find most disappointing about the current big names--the screaming, the jeering, the fact that so many consider hurling cheap insults as the pinnacle of wit. (Expensive insults are, of course, fine, and a well-crafted one I find is more entertaining. And I usually reserve 'NO U' for when I'm looking for uranium trades or correcting spelling of my name.) Even during the run-up to Karma, I preferred actual discussion and talk rather than just going along with a cheering mass. Granted, there were times when I did find Schattennman's tone a little too ... shrill for my tastes. Still, I even try to avoid hails in threads announcing things. (I can't even remember if I ever did respond to any of my own alliances' threads. I think I did at some point.)

As far as the 'Everything Must Die' propoganda is concerned ... I've stated my opinion elsewhere. (I forget which thread. Probably both.) I'll see if I'm wrong.

[zzzptm]

Certainly, we are all mortal. Everything, as a course of nature, must die. When death arrives, we must greet it as a new friend and fear it not.

But that does not mean we are obligated to hasten the day we get the visit from the man in the bright nightgown. Nor does it mean we should seek to rush others on to that end. Just as we should not fear death, we should not fear life. We should live it well, with honor and justice as our guides. The underlying of all things in the world is love, for water and fire exist. If hate were the underlying force of the world, one would have destroyed the other by now. Love will allow its enemy to live, even as that enemy plots murderous intrigues. In this sense, love is stronger than hate, and ultimately triumphs.