Rocky Horror Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 (edited) It seems that alot of people are not understanding some basic facts of this war, so let us get a thread going. I will update it with submissions / posts as well. [list] [*] Lennox spied on VE [*] Dajobo sanctioned spying against MK and VE - MK kindly didn't roll NpO for the intent. [*] RoK DID warn their treaty partners 24 hours in advance that they were going to defend Polar. [*] Superfriends made their own decisions about who to attack, because that is their right as a bloc and a set of individual alliances. [*] I think it is safe to establish that VE started a defensive war against Polaris, following a government-sanctioned spy attempt. [*] RoK has connections to both sides of the web, but were guilted into chosing Polar's side because of Hoo's personal feelings. [*] More objectively true facts to come, stay tuned to the no-spin zone.[/list] -Mello Edited January 20, 2011 by Rocky Horror Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acca Dacca Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 Hoo is not government, The entire Ragnarok government agreed to roll, and that is ALOT of people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Horror Posted January 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 I don't think that changes what I said at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acca Dacca Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 You said we were guilted. I can assure you that was not the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voytek Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 Now this is some objectivity. Not even speaking as an MK member right here - there is literally no other way to really interpret these events without either a LOT of Kool-Aid or some serious tinfoil hats. [quote name='Acca Dacca' timestamp='1295540118' post='2586471']Hoo is not government, The entire Ragnarok government agreed to roll, and that is ALOT of people.[/quote] Yeah I'm sure Hoo making a martyr out of himself to the membership by leaving the alliance and then continuing to guilt trip them from afar had [i]nothing[/i] to do with the reversal of their position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acca Dacca Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 Maybe to the membership, but the government already made up their mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Horror Posted January 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 [quote name='Acca Dacca' timestamp='1295540298' post='2586479'] You said we were guilted. I can assure you that was not the case. [/quote]So let me see: [b]1.[/b] Rok announce they are not entering the war. [b]2.[/b] The most famous member in Rok's history makes a big public show of joining Polar to defend the spirit of the treaty he signed with them. [b]3.[/b] Rok declare in defence of Polar. Hm, could these events be related, do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donnerjack Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 This is IC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamichi Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 mello for lhc 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voytek Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 [quote name='Rocky Horror' timestamp='1295540586' post='2586489'] So let me see: [b]1.[/b] Rok announce they are not entering the war. [b]2.[/b] The most famous member in Rok's history makes a big public show of joining Polar to defend the spirit of the treaty he signed with them. [b]3.[/b] Rok declare in defence of Polar. Hm, could these events be related, do you think? [/quote] as a completly unbiased foriegn observer, i dont see anything to connect these things?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potato Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 [quote name='kamichi' timestamp='1295541214' post='2586512'] mello for lhc 2011 [/quote] I hate you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lebubu Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 This is a breath of fresh air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acca Dacca Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 Considering the Ragnarok government already came to terms with the fact that we were going to war? Nope. Not at all, in fact, Hoo was simply agreeing with the majority of our government at the time and if I had been on within that time I would have agreed as well. As much as Hoo has been an influence on us, and as much as I, myself, agree with him. He, SF, or any other ally will never influence our stance on the defense of another ally. Sorry to say, we dont answer to the OWF when we're making war preparations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voytek Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Acca Dacca' timestamp='1295541687' post='2586526']Sorry to say, we dont answer to the OWF when we're making war preparations.[/quote] Nobody said he was doing the majority of his guilt tripping on these forums. Face it, either RoK was lying when you said you wouldn't go in on Polar's side in the first place or you allowed yourselves to be !@#$%whipped by Hoo into doing so afterwards. The fact that he left in disgust over your initial decision to stay out would lend some credence to the latter situation. Edited January 20, 2011 by Voytek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neneko Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Acca Dacca' timestamp='1295541687' post='2586526'] Considering the Ragnarok government already came to terms with the fact that we were going to war? Nope. Not at all, in fact, Hoo was simply agreeing with the majority of our government at the time and if I had been on within that time I would have agreed as well. As much as Hoo has been an influence on us, and as much as I, myself, agree with him. He, SF, or any other ally will never influence our stance on the defense of another ally. Sorry to say, we dont answer to the OWF when we're making war preparations. [/quote] Just to make sure I got all objective facts here. [list] [*]RoK decides to defend Polar. [*]Hoo rage quits to polar to defend them. [*]RoK defend polar just as they planned to do all along. [/list] This line of events makes perfect sense to me. As it should to any other neutral observer. Edited January 20, 2011 by neneko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acca Dacca Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 Rok hesitated on defending polar due to the circumstances following our stance on the last war. The will of the Advisory Council as well as members of the RC who were away at that time overturned that stance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Horror Posted January 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 I see a lot of spluttering and caveats about the machinery of Rok's government and the opinions of certain member nations. What I don't see is anything that contradicts what I said in the OP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voytek Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Acca Dacca' timestamp='1295542117' post='2586544'] Rok hesitated on defending polar due to the circumstances following our stance on the last war. The will of the Advisory Council as well as members of the RC who were away at that time overturned that stance. [/quote] So Hoo essentially ragequit over a small portion of your government advocating a hesitation that was in all likelihood going to be corrected within a few days anyway. You're not doing a very good job of making yourselves look better - or any more honest, your story is riddled with holes - here. Edited January 20, 2011 by Voytek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acca Dacca Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 [quote name='Voytek' timestamp='1295542312' post='2586551'] So Hoo essentially ragequit over a small portion of your government advocating a hesitation that was in all likelihood going to be corrected within a few days anyway. You're not doing a very good job of making yourselves look better here. [/quote] You seem concentrated on Hoo for some reason, and seem to think that him doing something is making us look bad. He is a member, and he can do whatever he wants. He did not know we were going to overturn the initial statement, because usually our decisions are made from what we feel is right, this one was influenced by allies which shouldnt have happened in the first place. We corrected our mistake based solely on the concerns of the entire current Ragnarok government felt. If you feel the need to think that Rok answers to only one person who tells us what is right and what is wrong like some other particular alliances, then I'm sorry you are stuck on that mindset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voytek Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Acca Dacca' timestamp='1295542701' post='2586566']this one was influenced by allies which shouldnt have happened in the first place.[/quote] It sounds to me like the current crop of Ragnarok members doesn't really get what being in a bloc means. Edited January 20, 2011 by Voytek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Horror Posted January 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 [quote name='Acca Dacca' timestamp='1295542701' post='2586566'] You seem concentrated on Hoo for some reason, and seem to think that him doing something is making us look bad. He is a member, and he can do whatever he wants. He did not know we were going to overturn the initial statement, because usually our decisions are made from what we feel is right, this one was influenced by allies which shouldnt have happened in the first place. We corrected our mistake based solely on the concerns of the entire current Ragnarok government felt. If you feel the need to think that Rok answers to only one person who tells us what is right and what is wrong like some other particular alliances, then I'm sorry you are stuck on that mindset. [/quote]If I thought he controlled you directly I would've said so. In fact, I said his guilt trip would have made not defending Polar a PR disaster. He exerted a far more effective form of control than merely telling you what to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogaden Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 [quote name='Voytek' timestamp='1295542841' post='2586572'] It sounds to me like the current crop of Ragnarok members doesn't really get what being in a bloc means. [/quote] When I see posts like this I feel sorry for other blocs. <3 SF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voytek Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 [quote name='James Dahl' timestamp='1295543956' post='2586610']When I see posts like this I feel sorry for other blocs.[/quote] You feel sorry for blocs that don't have member alliances preaching total independence from their allies? ...Not really sure how to respond to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogaden Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 [quote name='Voytek' timestamp='1295544065' post='2586618'] You feel sorry for blocs that don't have member alliances preaching total independence from their allies? ...Not really sure how to respond to that. [/quote] Just sit back and enjoy the fireworks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voytek Posted January 20, 2011 Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 [quote name='James Dahl' timestamp='1295544324' post='2586631']Just sit back and enjoy the fireworks. [/quote] Non sequiturs aren't exactly the best response to these things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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