The International Marches to War

[Dingo]

Don't give white peace this time.

[Bower3aj]

Wow.

INT is taking unnecessary heat here. TR and INT would not have attacked GLOF in the numbers we did if we thought GLOF was getting peace from FOK. TR might be warmongers but we're not opportunists, and to classify INT as one would imply we are as well.

While Mike from iFOK was on and I believe he was who NpO spoke with, I couldn't get ahold of FOK gov member until hours after update, and after the forums had come back up. Why you'd expect to be let go after NpO walked anyway...I mean that doesn't make sense to anyone but you I think and saying that in our public channel in disbelief was off-putting to say the least. You were let go, you didn't have a right to be peace'd out on a free pass.

As for coalition communication, see tR's DOW.

On the point of fighting; if it takes two days because of whatever it was exactly that people were plotting got in the way (I left that channel and won't go back, and besides, they wouldn't have told me anyway), then so be it. You attacked FOK, we attacked you, end of story.

And no alliance is perfect in their operations, including us. But hurling taunts away at the people who just let you walk after dogpiling our ally seems unreasonable.

Mattski, whether you realize it or not, I happen to like you, and your alliance. Your DoW was classy and your members have been respectful. Now there's one thing I think we should clear up here. You said "TR might be warmongers but we're not opportunists, and to classify INT as one would imply we are as well." You're right, which is good because we didn't call INT opportunists. They called US opportunists. We followed our Treaty obligations, you followed yours. There is no opportunism present. Which is why I am extremely upset with INT using their DoW as propaganda. We wished FOK luck in our DoW. FOK was fun to fight, solid guys over there. INT insulted us by calling us opportunists in their DoW which they refused to post until after peace talks began. There's no class or honor there. I hold nothing against FOK, or tR. You guys have been a class act in my eyes. However, INT is not so lucky. I will not forget their actions soon, even if it means nothing as my role is insignificant nowadays, I will still not forget.

[Thizzland]

Mattski, whether you realize it or not, I happen to like you, and your alliance. Your DoW was classy and your members have been respectful. Now there's one thing I think we should clear up here. You said "TR might be warmongers but we're not opportunists, and to classify INT as one would imply we are as well." You're right, which is good because we didn't call INT opportunists. They called US opportunists. We followed our Treaty obligations, you followed yours. There is no opportunism present. Which is why I am extremely upset with INT using their DoW as propaganda. We wished FOK luck in our DoW. FOK was fun to fight, solid guys over there. INT insulted us by calling us opportunists in their DoW which they refused to post until after peace talks began. There's no class or honor there. I hold nothing against FOK, or tR. You guys have been a class act in my eyes. However, INT is not so lucky. I will not forget their actions soon, even if it means nothing as my role is insignificant nowadays, I will still not forget.

Your entitled to your own opinions, of course, but I feel your overreacting.

Look, our decision to leave OUT was not taken lightly and the vote barely passed. Although we are no longer an official signatory, there is still a strong sense of orange unity among our many of our members. It's disappointing to see Orange on Orange violence, looks like it's only going to escalate though. Interpret opportunistic however you like, but we're disappointed that you would DoW another orange alliance.

I'm not going to comment on the timing of this announcement, because that's a ridiculous compliant. Especially given the circumstances surrounding last night.

That said, I'm happy all parties were able to reach peace. Besides to tendency to declare on other orange alliances, which I understand INT left OUT because MDP>color, I've got nothing against GLOF and I wish you luck in the future.

[Oktavia]

I would say this DOW thread is nullified since GLOF was granted white peace by INT, TR, and FOK.

Shortest war ever. Oh, well.

[Hassman]

More whining from GLOF. Not surprising from an alliance who has twice waged offensive war against their Orange brothers.

I love getting lectured about honor from you chaps.

-Craig

You do not understand that the meaning of honor. honor is not in a colour.

Edited January 29, 2010 by Hassman

[Buds The Man]

This is very much appreciated tINT. Too bad some people decided to peace out.

To the people of GLOF whining about this DoW coming after the actual in-game declarations: THE BOARDS WERE DOWN!.

Love you always tINT

Wow Classy seeing as youve declared peace.

Whoop em up GLOF

[New Frontier]

More whining from GLOF. Not surprising from an alliance who has twice waged offensive war against their Orange brothers.

I love getting lectured about honor from you chaps.

-Craig

Yes, because anyone who chooses the same option from a drop-down list must be allies for all eternity.

[Mechanus]

I would say this DOW thread is nullified since GLOF was granted white peace by INT, TR, and FOK.

I laughed at this. I really did.

[Oktavia]

I laughed at this. I really did.

We were laughing at your alliances war chests. We really did.

[Comrade Craig]

We were laughing at your alliances war chests. We really did.

Wow, you found a guy with one?

-Craig

Edited January 29, 2010 by Comrade Craig

[Bower3aj]

We were laughing at your alliances war chests. We really did.

really? after peace? Well if you wanna try that one then you didn't take a look at mine did ya? oh that's right, nobody from any of the three alliances we were at war with could take the time, or grow the pair necessary, to attack me. I really wanted you to though. Personally, if I were picking targets I'd red flag a nation like mine (smaller and nuclear) and send my best men to destroy it quickly. Apparently the spine required to do so was lacking. Though honestly a good choice. My nukes would have decimated your forces and my half a year warchest would have made sure that your men would cry themselves to sleep.

Look I can measure my e-peen too.

[Werner von Hermann]

Like it would have made a difference. You were already involved in a war with our allies, meaning all your members knew what to expect; were in DC1, severe; max soldiers; etc, etc; AND expect counter attacks!

Yes, our orders were scrambled and lost in all the confusion, but it was unintentional. Deal with it.

Edited January 29, 2010 by Werner von Hermann

[Marcos]

Okay about DoWs coming before in-game wars, that has pretty much always been the case to declare in game first(across the board)before going to the boards. That is to maintain the element of surprise, and you cannot have a blitz by allowing your enemy to go into PM.

[obscurus]

Oh, please guys!

Probably the onlookers here on Planet Bob wouldn't want to know how long are your warchests, would they?

[Oktavia]

My nukes would have decimated your forces and my half a year warchest would have made sure that your men would cry themselves to sleep.

I guess wars are fought at the bottom of the barrel now.

[Werner von Hermann]

really? after peace? Well if you wanna try that one then you didn't take a look at mine did ya? oh that's right, nobody from any of the three alliances we were at war with could take the time, or grow the pair necessary, to attack me. I really wanted you to though. Personally, if I were picking targets I'd red flag a nation like mine (smaller and nuclear) and send my best men to destroy it quickly. Apparently the spine required to do so was lacking. Though honestly a good choice. My nukes would have decimated your forces and my half a year warchest would have made sure that your men would cry themselves to sleep.

Look I can measure my e-peen too.

Sorry, couldn't see you way down there. Maybe if you focused on building you glorious free-market economy rather than nukes, we could have met on the battle field. I'm sure you feel good about nuking 15k NS nations.

Edited January 30, 2010 by Werner von Hermann

[Comrade Tiki]

Gentlemen, please!

As a great man once said,

Wars are fought to gain a certain objective. War itself is not the objective; victory is not the objective; you fight to remove the obstruction that comes in the way of your objective. If you let victory become the end in itself then you've gone astray and forgotten what you were originally fighting about.

Our objective was and remains to honour our agreements in defence of our allies. Shortly after the start of the war, the obstruction agreed to retreat peacefully. Let us be content that all of our objectives have been met, and not lessen this occasion by reducing it ad hominem.

Edited January 30, 2010 by Comrade Tiki

[Solarius4]

Okay about DoWs coming before in-game wars, that has pretty much always been the case to declare in game first(across the board)before going to the boards. That is to maintain the element of surprise, and you cannot have a blitz by allowing your enemy to go into PM.

Even by that doctrine, what was done is well beyond that, well over an hour before anything is mentioned here, as well as these attacks being far from "across the board".

[Marcos]

Even by that doctrine, what was done is well beyond that, well over an hour before anything is mentioned here, as well as these attacks being far from "across the board".

I am not in leadership so I really don't know why they did announce so late, but better late than never. So I don't know what you mean about "what was done is well beyond that". Alliance in-game DoWs are always done before Forum DoWs and I know of no universal standard on when forum DoWs are supposed to come, it came, you know why it came, and that's that. Had we known the Three warring alliances NpO, FOK and \m/ were declaring peace then we would have not attacked, its nothing personal we got no grudge with GLOF. there is nothing "beyond" us declaring war other than honoring our treaty with FOK.

Edited January 30, 2010 by Marcos

[Solarius4]

I am not in leadership so I really don't know why they did announce so late, but better late than never. So I don't know what you mean about "what was done is well beyond that". Alliance in-game DoWs are always done before Forum DoWs and I know of no universal standard on when forum DoWs are supposed to come, it came, you know why it came, and that's that. Had we known the Three warring alliances NpO, FOK and \m/ were declaring peace then we would have not attacked, its nothing personal we got no grudge with GLOF. there is nothing "beyond" us declaring war other than honoring our treaty with FOK.

I distinctly remember our government ordering us not to attack until our DoW was posted, which therefore renders your assertion that "Alliance in-game DoWs are always done before Forum DoWs" null and void, as something cannot "always" be done yet have an exception.

It is a matter of courtesy that a declaration of war precedes actual hostile action, it is to be expected. Note that during the Karma War, NPO was decried for having attacked 30 minutes prior to the actual DoW, yours came after an even longer time.

[Marcos]

I distinctly remember our government ordering us not to attack until our DoW was posted, which therefore renders your assertion that "Alliance in-game DoWs are always done before Forum DoWs" null and void, as something cannot "always" be done yet have an exception.

You are one of the few exceptions then, because any alliance which wants to make an effective blitz will attack first and then DoW later it keeps the element of surprise, in your war on FOK though its obvious it would not have worked since their slots were full.

It is a matter of courtesy that a declaration of war precedes actual hostile action, it is to be expected. Note that during the Karma War, NPO was decried for having attacked 30 minutes prior to the actual DoW, yours came after an even longer time.

Our DoW came a mere 15 minutes more, like I said, you knew why it was declared. Nothing personal like I said, there were plenty of alliances that use this tactic anyway. I don't know exactly why leadership did not post it sooner, but it was done, maybe they wanted to post on these forums so people could comment on our awesome propaganda video ? There was no "ulterior" motives if thats what you are thinking. I think its clear on that.

Edited January 30, 2010 by Marcos

[Werner von Hermann]

I distinctly remember our government ordering us not to attack until our DoW was posted, which therefore renders your assertion that "Alliance in-game DoWs are always done before Forum DoWs" null and void, as something cannot "always" be done yet have an exception.

It is a matter of courtesy that a declaration of war precedes actual hostile action, it is to be expected. Note that during the Karma War, NPO was decried for having attacked 30 minutes prior to the actual DoW, yours came after an even longer time.

Really? You're going to play the SAT-test card and call him on his use of an absolute? A clearly desperate tactic, even in a completely pointless discussion.

Who says it "is" a matter of courtesy; and that it "is" to be expected? I for one don't look to the forums for a DoW if I get attacked; I look to my government for either orders to retaliate or to stand down till further orders. I received the order to attack, and so I did.

[Marcos]

Really? You're going to play the SAT-test card and call him on his use of an absolute? A clearly desperate tactic, even in a completely pointless discussion.

Who says it "is" a matter of courtesy; and that it "is" to be expected? I for one don't look to the forums for a DoW if I get attacked; I look to my government for either orders to retaliate or to stand down till further orders. I received the order to attack, and so I did.

Not to mention that attack orders were delivered on 11:06 pm while Seixas attack was done at 10:58, no one but Govt. knew who we were going to attack.

Edited January 30, 2010 by Marcos

[Charles the Great]

o yeah and some of the final attacks occured then peace offered one minute later.....really classy.........

[Marcos]

o yeah and some of the final attacks occured then peace offered one minute later.....really classy.........

We are aware of that mishap, I am confident it was a mistake on ERC's part, I mean when I attack I don't exactly go to the forums first before striking.