57th Overlanders DoW's BC 2.0

[Krunk the Great]

57th only picks fights with alliances under an eighth their size. Barbaric.

[Bernkastel]

You remind me so much of some guy who has a grudge against Nemesis for rejecting their application. Sorry im rambling.

I'm sure that was for the lulz. He probably knew very well he was going to be denied and wanted to waste everyone's time as if he was bored and needed entertaining. People get like that, y'know?

[Charles the Great]

nevermind he changed his post.

Edited January 3, 2010 by Charles the Great

[Bernkastel]

the 57th said they wanted to end BC, id take that as blood rivals.. wouldnt you

BC said it first. It's only natural that the 57th respond in kind.

[legion-x]

so if both sides talk like that i would assume there blood rivals.

[daggarz]

BC said it first. It's only natural that the 57th respond in kind.

No they didnt

I am going to bed. FOR REAL AMOSSIO. The nemesis crew are quite capable of handling any more of your painful posts

Edited January 3, 2010 by daggarz

[bagpuss]

Only if alliances with ties to 57th enter in (such as GLOF, Silence, and VA).

As well as CRAP, The Fed, CoIN, SSE and RIA

[Baals]

I'm sure that was for the lulz. He probably knew very well he was going to be denied and wanted to waste everyone's time as if he was bored and needed entertaining. People get like that, y'know?

I for one think he may have wanted to stir up some trouble like he had done in past alliances.

[Bernkastel]

so if both sides talk like that i would assume there blood rivals.

December 29, 2009 - BC says "2. The 57th are our blood rivals."

January 3, 2010 - The 57th says "While we're flattered that you think we're your blood rivals, we do not."

Really? Please read the facts.

[DavidKing]

Browncoat fighting Browncoat....THATS classy...

Also...did anyone else find it quite hilarious that the guy who wrote the initial DoW from 57th (a Browncoat themed group) has a dude flying an ALLIANCE flag in his sig..........

Just sayin'

[Amossio]

No they didnt

I am going to bed. FOR REAL AMOSSIO. The nemesis crew are quite capable of handling any more of your painful posts

LOL, you better be in bed

[Schattenmann]

Are we now turning this thread into who hates who more?

Hate is a valid CB, as the hate level rises, you get a better reason to pre-emptively attack someone.

Eh, is screwing up the update strike really worth getting an extra 2 wars in?

For the other wars, it doesn't really matter if nation damage happens at 2 a.m. server or 11:30 p.m. server. You skipped doing the blitz in order to get 2 whole wars in.

At this point I'm just going to point out that all week CC has been talking about update blitzes being an artifact (after all, NPO Emperor Moldavi first implemented them 3 years ago) and touting odd tactics as modern and wonderful. Pick one, world.

No blitz was needed, 57th is being taken care of handily.

When you lose sir, can I say it was the second time you killed Browncoats?

You're pathetic.

If you can't understand that Nintenderek had 0 role or liability in the Bubblegum War 18 months and multiple threads later, it's you who's pathetic. But thanks for giving us insight into 57th's mentality.

In typically Irish fashion, I arrive late to the party.

In typically 57th fashion, I re-iterate the facts to cut through the amount of spin going on here.

If you've ever reiterated facts this will be the first time.

Browncoats made plans to attack the 57th Overlanders (see screenshot).

They had planned on doing so through an ODP treaty with Cult of Justitia (see screenshot and wiki with link - both confirm the ODP).

Cult of Justitia had planned on using their oA clause with Nemesis to hit the 57th in the larger TPF war which has recently ended (for the record, we would have no trouble with Nemesis or CoJ acting in this manner had they done so during the conflict).

Nemesis it would appear, based on what makes the most logical sense off of those screenshots, had planned to hit us after we defended Veritas Aequitas. This is a small amount of speculation, but is the only possible way in which CoJ and BC 2.0 could possibly attack us to begin with. This last point however, is beside the point of our CB.

Nope. No facts here.

The wiki is outdated, see here: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?a...amp;pid=2082313.

Browncoats made plans to upgrade their treaty with CoJ from an ODP to an ODOAP. However, your failspies gave you screenshots of what amounts to an opinion poll of the membership, not gov discussions. So, while the membership was deciding if they would support an aggressive war, the government was deciding on the treaty upgrade. They went hand in hand, but you only saw half the picture (which has led you to go off half-cocked).

CoJ planned to use our OA clause to attack whoever countered on any of several Nemesis treaty partners--it was likely to be 57th, but it could have been anyone (also likely VA).

Browncoats were planning to attack us, via an aggressive clause in their ODP treaty with CoJ that doesn't exist, along with Nemesis and possibly LoSS too. I, and the 57th, have no problem with Nemesis hitting us in that context, nor even with CoJ. I have trouble with BC 2.0 doing so. To head off the logical counter that they would move alongside LoSS, I point you to the screenshots. They were planning on moving with CoJ, and not LoSS. In fact, they couldn't even be certain of LoSS's support. Nemesis alone is more than capable of engaging the 57th, CoJ merely adds to this. BC would merely be bandwagonning.

See above. Browncoats and CoJ were negotiating a treaty upgrade as the war escalated to facilitate Browncoats' meaningful entry into the war. 8-nation Browncoats using an ODP to defend CoJ from counter-declarations would have been meaningless, but BC+Nemesis+CoJ attackign together became a meaningful force.

Browncoats wanted a war against the 57th, we gave it to them, actually allowing them to keep what little honour they may feel they have, intact.

Nemesis engaging the 57th took me by surprise, I expected better. I was waiting for CoJ to engage as per their ODP with BC, and LoSS to move in defence. What Nemesis have to do with this war at this point in time is quite lost on me.

Nemesis is very clearly involved through their ODOAP with CoJ. CoJ is very clearly involved by their ODOAP With Browncoats. If one understands 57th's espionage as an aggressive act of war, they realize CoJ's defensive response. If one cannot see the 57th's espionage as the aggressive act of war that it is, then CoJ is still very clearly entered in defense of Browncoats. In either case, the entry of Nemesis is given (unless you thought they'd ignore our treaty because it's optional in which case you severely m,isunderstand CoJ and Nemesis' relationship, and CoJ's commitment to all treaties at all levels.)

I will take this time to reply to the "negotiations" that my Lieutenant, Kodiak, partook in, in which the now apparently famous line "We seek to end the alliance, BC2, that schemes to attack us." appears. In short, those "negotiations" were a farce. CoJ/Nemesis/BC2.0/LoSS were involved, with NSO moderating and only Kodiak there from the 57th. Kodiak has a history with BC, and the logs show CoJ/BC 2.0/LoSS and Nemesis clearly demanding an answer Kodiak was uncertain on. He was clearly already flustered by the people he was facing, who outclass him in political experience and diplomacy. The answer he gave was a poor one. Although, if Nemesis had managed to look at our DoW, they will see that has already been answered. BC wanted a war with the 57th, this they received. Our goal here is to give BC this. Not in the manner they would like perhaps, but the lads weren't up for getting jumped on by opportunistic tools. I know, we're not much fun like that. Next time maybe, we'll see. Of course, now it appears that Nemesis jumped on us because they can't keep it in their pants for the length of time it takes for CoJ or LoSS to issue a DoW means that whether we're up for getting jumped on by opportunistic tools is a somewhat moot point.

I'm real sorry you left an "inexperienced" hothead in charge while you were gone. Next time pick a better second in command. Or, you know, when Ivan Moldavi advises you not to declare a war, listen to the Voice of Experience.

If i remember rite, it was Schattenman's hare brained scheme that lead to their disbandment, trying to prevent getting stomped by 1V in the GATO - 1V war......and now he has a hand in another hare brained scheme for Browncoats to DoW 57th....using an ODP / OADP whatever....

*tips hat in respect to Schattenman

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not but I'll tell you this, my commitment to Browncoats' survival and success is as strong today as it was then, but this time I'm doing it right.

This have any chance of escalating?

Last night after CoJ, LoSS, and Nemesis responded to 57th's aggressive attacks, 57th Overlanders was given a very lenient offer: surrender, send Browncoats 21 million. Their second in command and the leader of the blitz responded by saying that it was 57th's goal to "end" Browncoats and that they were unwavering in their resolve. If 57th cannot come to terms with their mistake, it is not up to our defensive front to save them from themselves.

[constapatedape]

As well as CRAP, The Fed, CoIN, SSE and RIA

thanks for including us Bag

[Kataklizm the Great]

December 29, 2009 - BC says "2. The 57th are our blood rivals."

January 3, 2010 - The 57th says "While we're flattered that you think we're your blood rivals, we do not."

Really? Please read the facts.

Since you lift one quote from each AA (as speaking for the entire AA), I can only assume everything you say is outright policy of TSI.

[Schattenmann]

BC has 8 nations. 57th has over 40. 57th had to "pre-emptively" strike BC? Based on bad intel garnered thru spying? And declare after the big boys declared peace? (Plus, not rectify the problem, as they learned about it). Then 57 complains that they get attacked? Did they expect no one to notice? The biggest question of all is: Why aren't the rank and file members of the 57th revolting against their own government?

In fact, in the last 4 days 57th Overlanders has lost 6 or more members. Last week they had 49, this week they've got 43 (last I checked). Maybe 6 people over there had good enough sense to get while the getting was good.

[Asriel Belacqua]

December 29, 2009 - BC says "2. The 57th are our blood rivals."

January 3, 2010 - The 57th says "While we're flattered that you think we're your blood rivals, we do not."

Really? Please read the facts.

Let's add on to that: January 3rd, after the DoW: Kodiak (a higher-ranking member in 57th, and in an official capacity) says: "We want to end you. that is our goal."

January 4th, former 57th member says that hatred runs deep on 57th's side (and he's still allied to them, I doubt too much hatred is between him and them).

January 4th, Asriel Belacqua (that's me) says "I have received loads upon loads of hatemail from various people in 57th BEFORE this incident ever occurred (and in fact, right around the time we remade BC)." Those people include Veneke, and Lord Panda. So let's stop this madness about the gorrammed hatred.

[Bernkastel]

Since you lift one quote from each AA (as speaking for the entire AA), I can only assume everything you say is outright policy of TSI.

Playing that card already? Really must be grasping at straws.

[Voodoo Nova]

Playing that card already? Really must be grasping at straws.

You've been grabbing straw's the moment you began the insults against BC's protector.

@Lennox:

Think larger scheme buddy.

Edited January 3, 2010 by Voodoo Nova

[Kataklizm the Great]

Playing that card already? Really must be grasping at straws.

You played the card, I just asked about it. You are grasping at nothing.

[Baals]

CoJ planned to use our OA clause to attack whoever countered on any of several Nemesis treaty partners--it was likely to be 57th, but it could have been anyone (also likely VA).

It's now time for VA to preemptively strike

[Krunk the Great]

Playing that card already? Really must be grasping at straws.

I sincerely hope, for your sake, that you do not speak for The Sasori Initiative.....If I were them and you did, I would be very embarrassed by every post you made in this thread.

[Hiro Nakara]

I'm pretty confident he does not speak for TSI, he holds no government positions nor has he been with them that long, he however seemed fit to throw insults at the alliance he tried to join and got rejected from prior, under his other assumed personality. So what does that show you?

Grasping at straws? hardly.

I'm one for second chances, but your really not doing yourself any favours by continuing your line of thought. It makes me think your just the same person you were prior and your confirming it by every post you make.

Edited January 3, 2010 by Hiro Nakara

[Bernkastel]

... he however seemed fit to throw insults at the alliance he tried to join and got rejected from prior, under his other assumed personality.

I'm one for second chances, but your really not doing yourself any favours by continuing your line of thought.

The showing here by BC, LoSS and Nemesis deserve what they get.

I guess its illegal to have common sense in this new world ruled by weak people.

Edited January 3, 2010 by Luna Sol solis

[youwish959]

I think it is being overlooked that this was posted only one minute after peace was announced in the big war. Considering it would have taken a few minutes to write this up, we know that 57th assumed the war was going to continue on.

[Voodoo Nova]

The showing here by BC, LoSS and Nemesis deserve what they get.

I guess its illegal to have common sense in this new world ruled by weak people.

You might want to convince your alliance to cancel your treaties, if you feel following them are atrocious acts.