mushi Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 The point, however, that desperado brought up about the 9k tech never being received by TPF is interesting though. If the reasoning behind wanting 9k tech is because that's what was taken in the past, and it was in fact never taken, then the reason doesn't exist and there must be some other motive behind the 9k tech for it to remain. To be honest, I think if PC would just lower the reps they're requesting, this thing would be over. They don't need the 20k tech because they were damaged badly by TPF - they want it because they want to damage TPF more. PC hasnt taken damage? We have lost about 60% of our NS during this war. I dont think any karma alliance endured the losses we did. Our numbers put it tha we require aleast 1.6B to get back to 4999 infra ( average was near 8k pre-war). These reps will be a fraction of our re-building costs. The TPF vs PC 1 on 1 duel, i cant make a comment about. 20k isnt much considering the bad blood between PC-TPF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starbuck Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 They're being pushed around by being offered reasonable terms? Reasonable is a subjective term, what is reasonable to you may not be to msyelf or another. I personaly think they Karma coalition should pay TPF, but we both know thats not going to happen. So while TPF hast the right to define what is reasonable, and this was rejected for not being reasonable it's fair to say, yes they are being pushed around and bullied for unfair terms Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alterego Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 (edited) I wouldnt pay them either. Leaving out cruel and unusual punishments like viceroys doesent make these terms at all light, you are still meddling in their internal affairs. 20000 to PC when PC attacked them is totally ridiculous and nothing more than business as usual greed. Trying to hide behind getting all the tech back you lost a year ago will come back to haunt you MK. PC hasnt taken damage? We have lost about 60% of our NS during this war. I dont think any karma alliance endured the losses we did. Our numbers put it tha we require aleast 1.6B to get back to 4999 infra ( average was near 8k pre-war). These reps will be a fraction of our re-building costs. The TPF vs PC 1 on 1 duel, i cant make a comment about. 20k isnt much considering the bad blood between PC-TPF. Boo hoo, you DoW'd them. Edited July 25, 2009 by Alterego Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragashingo Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 FREE TPF!!! Free alliance x messages only mean something if said alliance is being held captive. Your message is stupid since TPF isn't captive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Conrad Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 I personaly think they Karma coalition should pay TPF Well if you're going to say things like that, I don't think we have anything more to discuss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhawk Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 We changed it and presented it to Mhawk last night and were met by various insults and attacks.Mhawk briefly mentioned it, with no details or evidence. Regardless we would be within our rights to want some reps on top of it, so that's not a major point. We're not opposed to the concept of reps, even if we often don't impose them. That particular number to MK, and the firmness of our resolve on the matter, comes from the noCB war. Regarding me presenting no details or evidence, that is a lie. I presented you evidence and records of the transactions. Regarding various insults, this would be the result of you stating I needed to learn what harsh reps were to pay for what I did to you in the polar war. I told you to fark off because we defended our friends in ML and left with not a word or demand of mk. You then accused us of attacking NoR, to which I said they disbanded before tpf formed. You then said we attacked Neuva vida, forcing them to disband, I told you that was incorrect as well given they were currently at war with us. I called you ignorant for making those claims. Now I'm currently away for the weekend so I'll let you take the initiative in this smear campaign. I do not have access to my logs, but will make a post to address various points raised in this thread when I return. The fact remains we refused your terms and you choose to try to ridicule us for choosing to continue fighting. @ seerow, I believe airme or whomever declared our embassy was closed and removed in protest at the beginning of the war. Regardless if white peace was offered on your end, I find it highly unlikely given the demands of your war time allies. Here is what I told everyone, we will pay 800m combined, we feel that 1.3 billion (which is what was offered) -Azaghul had stated CCC voted to ask for MORE reps, not remove it. Later after we turned down the 1.3billion PC came and stated we would not be forced to pay for their tech raids against alliances, that portion would be dropped so the amount would be around 1.1 billion from 24 nations that have 2k infra or more. I should also mention we were given many different stories regarding aid. One version had no aid, then archon present terms that allowed for a week of aid to fix bill lock then a block out. Twisted rebel stated allies would be allowed to pay reps with us and help us get out of bill lock. A day later Azaghul stated allied help paying 1.3billion would not be allowed because he wanted to make a symbolic statement of MK being able to control TPF in defeat. I responded to this with what he took as an insult A more detailed account of our issues with PC leading up to this war and why their conduct has been particularly distasteful seems to be in order. So here is the deal, we as an alliance feel asking the 1.3 billion from a 1m ns alliance is not acceptable, especially when a significant portion of the alliance is only here to fight the war (aka bama, imatt, ect). Our decision why this is unacceptable is not to say we are martyrs and which only for violence to continue, which is why we offered a 800m figure. (keeping in mind we ordered every nation into the war, including our banks to help out Molon Labe in late april.) The thing these guys don't seem to get, is they can't take what we are not willing to give. We are willing to give up our infra, we are unwilling to surrender our principles. Our principles dictate we will not sign terms that demand 1.1b-1.3b (depending on if ccc wants reps as in one version or if we need to pay PC's reps for raiding alliances version) at our current size. Make no mistake, we wish nothing more than to end the war being waged against us, however that does not mean we will do so unconditionally. I feel this stance greatly angers Azaghul. If the difference between 800m and 1.3 billion is enough that mk and pc are willing to wage permanent warfare, then the burden will increasingly lie with them to explain the necessity of their greed, rather than to condemn us for choosing not to give into things we find unacceptable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starbuck Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 Free alliance x messages only mean something if said alliance is being held captive. Your message is stupid since TPF isn't captive. Unreasonable terms do not make them free, they are being held in a constant state of war for honoring a treaty, seems like they are captive to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shodemofi-NPO Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 Karma is doing it's best imitation of what they claimed to have fought and imposing the same kind of terms and acting the same "Elitist" way NPO and TPF is being punished for...Karma doesn't desire peace they desire the complete humiliation of the brave warriors who fought to protect their allies and their destruction whether through continued war or the slow drain of these NPO style Draconian terms...WWII was fueled by WWI Draconian peace terms and so will the next war to envelope CN... First of all, your post almost made me gag. Laying it on a little thick are we? Secondly, I have no doubt the next great war will be about the NPO getting retribution, it seems to be one of the main focuses of the alliance. But, as was learned in Great War 1, giving them white peace (or close enough) wouldn't make any difference, might as well give them the punishment they deserve in that case, wouldn't you agree? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhawk Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 I re-opened all Hegemony Embassies before I stepped down from LHE which was about 2 months ago. You guys were notified and I believe mhawk even visited from time to time. I was never made aware of this and I don't believe I've visited your forums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragashingo Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 (edited) Post What is this talk of you guys not surrendering unconditionally? Wouldn't the offered peace terms be the conditions of surrender? Edited July 25, 2009 by Ragashingo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mushi Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 I wouldnt pay them either. Leaving out cruel and unusual punishments like viceroys doesent make these terms at all light, you are still meddling in their internal affairs. 20000 to PC when PC attacked them is totally ridiculous and nothing more than business as usual greed. Trying to hide behind getting all the tech back you lost a year ago will come back to haunt you MK. Boo hoo, you DoW'd them. Yes everyone that DoWed NPO, should get no reps, they DoWed it right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alterego Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 Free alliance x messages only mean something if said alliance is being held captive. Your message is stupid since TPF isn't captive. It means quite a lot when they are being told by the new Hegemony to cough up the last of their wealth while at the same time have their internal affairs dictated to them by PC and MK. I would rather be beaten off Bob forever showing these heartless money grabbers up for what they are than pay up and bow down to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhawk Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 They're being pushed around by being offered reasonable terms? 1.3 billion is not reasonable to us, which is all that matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alterego Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 Yes everyone that DoWed NPO, should get no reps, they DoWed it right? So everyone got their haul of goodies and now you want yours, nice. If everyone gave away all their tech would you be rushing to follow suit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qaianna Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 I'd say that the 'good old days' that I've heard so many complaints about are coming to a middle. Several pages ago, someone noted that those in power should be the ones who lead the way out from the things DeathCat was complaining about. Who's in power over the world at this point? Although from what I've heard, a brawl between Poison Clan and the Phoenix Federation might be something to sell to the world's pay per view companies. Would revenue count against reparations costs if they gave the broadcast rights to Mushroom Kingdom? I guess there's one more important question, since the whole tenure-in-an-alliance card and you-inherit-their-sins card keep getting played. What of the ones who inherit the sins, and learn of how to handle grudges this way? What will they learn of how this world of ours works, and what will happen as they make their way through life? ..dear Admin, I just used the 'Think of the Children!' argument. And..well, honestly, there's better ways of handling negotiations than insults. Tho it's interesting that it took several pages before mention of the real sticking point; at least when Trotsky's Revenge was finding fault in Pacifica's terms, he mentioned the bits he objected to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragashingo Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 It means quite a lot when they are being told by the new Hegemony to cough up the last of their wealth while at the same time have their internal affairs dictated to them by PC and MK. I would rather be beaten off Bob forever showing these heartless money grabbers up for what they are than pay up and bow down to them. New Hegemony? Where? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alterego Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 (edited) New Hegemony? Where? edit thought you were someone else The ones doing the excessive shake downs is usually a good place to start looking. Edited July 25, 2009 by Alterego Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhawk Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 Tho it's interesting that it took several pages before mention of the real sticking point; at least when Trotsky's Revenge was finding fault in Pacifica's terms, he mentioned the bits he objected to. TPF didn't make this post, MK chose to bring this out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygaland Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 New Hegemony? Where? The one that has been bouncing around in his imagination since the war began. Some people cling to their security blanket longer than others and Alterego still has it in a stranglehold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alterego Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 The one that has been bouncing around in his imagination since the war began. Some people cling to their security blanket longer than others and Alterego still has it in a stranglehold. Its the one doing all the shakedowns with its cheer leaders shouting for more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starbuck Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 As much as I dislike the NPO, I think it's things like this that will make it some how enjoyable to seem them exsact their revenge on karma. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qaianna Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 The one that has been bouncing around in his imagination since the war began. Some people cling to their security blanket longer than others and Alterego still has it in a stranglehold. From the tone of some posters (not all, just some), I think some other security blankets are still in use, and not only from those who support the New Pacific Order and/or the Phoenix Federation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygaland Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 Its the one doing all the shakedowns with its cheer leaders shouting for more. The sad thing is that you actually really believe what you post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starbuck Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 The sad thing is that you actually really believe what you post. whats worse is others believe what you post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygaland Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 From the tone of some posters (not all, just some), I think some other security blankets are still in use, and not only from those who support the New Pacific Order and/or the Phoenix Federation. What security blankets would they be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.