TypoNinja Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 He's the messenger. If the messenger says both privately and publicly "Terms are not negotiable", then there isn't much NPO can do about that. That's Karma's deal. Moo attempted to negotiate, yet you are accusing him of not attempting it. Maybe if the NPO was willing to do the foot work on getting terms from 18 people instead of having one of us run around doing it we'd take them a bit more seriously when they express a desire to negotiate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shahenshah Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 Maybe if the NPO was willing to do the foot work on getting terms from 18 people instead of having one of us run around doing it we'd take them a bit more seriously when they express a desire to negotiate. Are you suggesting that Karma is willing to address the issue? Specifically VE is willing to resolve the gaps and reach the peace? Because what I saw in other thread was 'take it or eternal war (aka perma ZI)' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldr Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 I'm sure that if Karma wanted individual alliances to negotiate their own deals with NPO, that the NPO would be fine with that. Karma has not been willing to do that. Pretending that NPO is the one that said "Londo, it's up to you to be the voice of Karma" is stupid. That was a decision from Karma. The NPO isn't making the rules. The NPO is working with the rules given to them. So far, pretty much everything that has been offered comes down to "Surrender now, let us beat on you awhile, and eventually we'll give you terms which you may or may not be able to pay". And that hasn't convinced us to surrender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rajistani Posted June 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 yeah that was the second time around after NPO screwed them over with the first set of peace terms and subsequently attacked the entire alliance over a few probable accounts of nations actually not abiding by the peace terms. The rest were quite questionable. Then the second war lasted 2 years or so. NPO is not paying reps as they seem to have quite a huge problem with doing so. i thought that was the point of this thread here. 1) FAN was offered terms after they violated (theres multiple screen shots of them violating, yeah by 5% over their soldier allowance in some cases, but thats still violating. It was 80% of FAN in violation). 2) NPO has no problem paying reps, or even more than the reps amount. I believe the problem is that NPO doesn't want their banks to be nukes for an undetermined amount of days PLUS fourteen days, and then be forced to pay all those reps. It's been so often by so many, once more won't hurt.If your banks are carrying such small war chests that two weeks of war renders them poverty bound, you are doing it wrong. Edit: to=/=it Not all nations in peace mode are banks, some are people who are graduating from college now and don't have time to be on, some are out of the country on summer trips, etc. Also, as the OP suggests, these banks would need 1.8 billion to handle ONLY fourteen days of war, plus whatever more days are added. With the change to the war-system just the other day (thanks, admin), turtling is no longer an option. Turtling gives money to the attacker from the game, not the turtlers' nation. It cant be revenge because some of the alliances involved were involved with the beat downs of FAN, GATO etc QFT. What? I think you need to re-read the terms The terms were changed by Londo. It was originally nations who had 1,000+ tech AFTER the fourteen days of war. Link to change click. They are non-negotiable because moo was addressing a messenger not a negotiator, not to belittle Londo's efforts here, but he can't speak for all 18 alliances he can only tell the NPO what the 18 alliances have agreed on. Londo said multiple times that "we will not change terms" etc. There are IRC logs posted all over the place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeVentNoir Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 I think that NPO should be forced to pay for its crimes, exactly like it forced other alliances to do. I think they should have only one term. That is, suffer every set of surrender terms they have given out. Its nothing bad at all! It is fine for you to send out those terms, why should you not receive it? I think the treatment FAN got would be the funniest, being ground to the road doesn't look so funny when your the one with the grit in your eye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobalt Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 Hopefully I will still be around in the game by the time this sort of talk comes back to haunt you. Hoping for some Karma? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qaianna Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 I think that NPO should be forced to pay for its crimes, exactly like it forced other alliances to do. I think they should have only one term. That is, suffer every set of surrender terms they have given out.Its nothing bad at all! It is fine for you to send out those terms, why should you not receive it? I think the treatment FAN got would be the funniest, being ground to the road doesn't look so funny when your the one with the grit in your eye. That will end up with a self-perpetuating horrorfest. Here's how: The New Pacific Order did not issue terms unfairly in ALL wars. At some point, they managed to issue fair ones. (Yes, I'm using that as the base of this, since I tend to be highly sceptical of the 'NPO 100% wrong' train of thought). However, those 'just' terms (whatever they were) are rolled in. Now ... if a member of Karma were to find itself judged, and deserving of vengeful reps ... these reps would count, since ANY proper NPO reparations were held against it. And in turn they'd be held against whoever issued them last time. And I'm too cynical to believe that an alliance will never stray from what is 'right' while still remaining in a position to win a serious war. Personally, I think it'd be better if those who are screaming for revenge and gutting to take a few steps back from the discussion table. You might accidentally make a precedent of yourselves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterShadow Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 Using 100% public information there are 58 nations (over 2k infra) that have sustained 0 infra damage. So now perhaps you can stop saying that we have 250 banks. Also a lot of nations were able to fight and get into peace mode, whos fault is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starcraftmazter Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 NPO has 450k tech. They are required to pay only 300k tech. An average large nation will have around 5k tech. This can all be sent in around 5 months. Countless more nations will be able to buy tech with daily tax collections and warchests. /thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterShadow Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 NPO has 450k tech. They are required to pay only 300k tech. An average large nation will have around 5k tech. This can all be sent in around 5 months. Countless more nations will be able to buy tech with daily tax collections and warchests./thread Try again, your average large nation of 5k tech well we only have 7 of those in the alliance, and 2 of those are at ZI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drugsup Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 LOSS was kept under surrender terms for 1 year. 1.8 is nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterShadow Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 LOSS was kept under surrender terms for 1 year. 1.8 is nothing. So does NPO get a MDP with everyone after their surrender terms are complete? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykep Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 1.8 years? Maybe 3 ought to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otherworld Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 Couldn't it be changed so that every NPO nation has to be out of peace mode for 14 days...but they could do it individually? All those that don't come out of peace mode will will be at war technically. This way it is a good compromise between NPO nations being beat down but would give the nations a definite period they would have to fight for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterShadow Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 Couldn't it be changed so that every NPO nation has to be out of peace mode for 14 days...but they could do it individually?All those that don't come out of peace mode will will be at war technically. This way it is a good compromise between NPO nations being beat down but would give the nations a definite period they would have to fight for? Is that only nations that havent been out for war at all or any nation currently in peace mode? Cause there is a vast difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otherworld Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 I would say for anybody who has been in 1 cycle of war or less. The main aim I am guessing for this is to slow recovery of NPO, so further battering those who have already been destroyed is not needed. At all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starcraftmazter Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 Try again, your average large nation of 5k tech well we only have 7 of those in the alliance, and 2 of those are at ZI I think you need to look up the definition of average. In addition - whether a nation is ZIed or not bears no relevance on their ability to send tech. So does NPO get a MDP with everyone after their surrender terms are complete? No, NPO does not get forced to sign a meaningless treaty which only they are expected to honour, and be ZIed if they don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterShadow Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 It will take immensely long for NPO to recover without reps. No amount of aid will change my nation. Back in GWI (if I was there) I could use aid to rebuild. But 15mil per cycle is going to jack for me. Down 11k infra, 4k tech, 1.2 Billion in cash. It is probably 16 months before I can recover that. And I am not paying reps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterShadow Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 I think you need to look up the definition of average. In addition - whether a nation is ZIed or not bears no relevance on their ability to send tech. If bill locked yes it does change the ability to send tech. What definition of average are you using? Your right I didnt take the subset of average, I took the entire set, which is 7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starcraftmazter Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 (edited) It will take immensely long for NPO to recover without reps. Good? Maybe then you'll stop being total !@#$s to everyone and forget about the idea of getting "revenge" - especially given you deserve all this. No amount of aid will change my nation. Back in GWI (if I was there) I could use aid to rebuild. But 15mil per cycle is going to jack for me. Down 11k infra, 4k tech, 1.2 Billion in cash. It is probably 16 months before I can recover that. And I am not paying reps This being the first time NPO has lost a war since GW1, I would like to welcome you to the real world, and welcome you to what it feels like having lost a real war. I know the whole experience is new to many pacificans, but it's what the rest of us have had to endure for years, so stop !@#$ing b!@#$ing about it like a little whiny girl. If bill locked yes it does change the ability to send tech. What definition of average are you using? Your right I didnt take the subset of average, I took the entire set, which is 7. There is only one definition of average. And I'm sure they won't be bill locked for ever. Edited June 14, 2009 by Starcraftmazter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterShadow Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 (edited) Good? Maybe then you'll stop being total !@#$s to everyone and forget about the idea of getting "revenge" - especially given you deserve all this.This being the first time NPO has lost a war since GW1, I would like to welcome you to the real world, and welcome you to what it feels like having lost a real war. I know the whole experience is new to many pacificans, but it's what the rest of us have had to endure for years, so stop !@#$ing b!@#$ing about it like a little whiny girl. There is only one definition of average. And I'm sure they won't be bill locked for ever. Revenge you talk about having revenge when you clearly are so vindictive of enforcing revenge, based on your NAAC signature. Also and if you are going to claim "I" (and yes you are directing it at me) be welcomed to the real world, this is my first war with NPO buddy. I was Legion for a very long time, so dont talk to me about that kind of bs. Could have fooled me, http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/average Well their aids slots do have to be used for tech apparently Edited June 14, 2009 by Mr.AdmiralX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otherworld Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 There is only one definition of average. Umm, mean/median/mode? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadshot Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 I think that NPO should be forced to pay for its crimes, exactly like it forced other alliances to do. I think they should have only one term. That is, suffer every set of surrender terms they have given out.Its nothing bad at all! It is fine for you to send out those terms, why should you not receive it? I think the treatment FAN got would be the funniest, being ground to the road doesn't look so funny when your the one with the grit in your eye. According you wiki, your alliance participated in the NPO-FAN war pat 2. And didn't you just recently engage peace with FAN? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starcraftmazter Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 Revenge you talk about having revenge when you clearly are so vindictive of enforcing revenge, based on your NAAC signature. This war is not a war of revenge, it is about karma. This is trivial. These are two extremely different things. You got what you deserve - it is very simple. Also and if you are going to claim "I" (and yes you are directing it at me) be welcomed to the real world, this is my first war with NPO buddy. I was Legion for a very long time, so dont talk to me about that kind of bs. Sure could have fooled me with all the winging you did. Umm, mean/median/mode? Mean is mean. Mediam is median. Mode is mode. Average is Average. For those of you who live in places with inferior educational systems, average is defined as (total quantity of all items / total items). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterShadow Posted June 14, 2009 Report Share Posted June 14, 2009 This war is not a war of revenge, it is about karma. This is trivial. These are two extremely different things. You got what you deserve - it is very simple.Sure could have fooled me with all the winging you did. Mean is mean. Mediam is median. Mode is mode. Average is Average. For those of you who live in places with inferior educational systems, average is defined as (total quantity of all items / total items). Your just an average person. No it is revenge, you are speaking of karma would not be imposing the exact same terms. Example: You murder someone, their brother kills you that is revenge. Karma - You murder someone, you are then forced to live out the days as their slave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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