Vox and NPO: Where is the love?

[Bob Sanders]

Damnit, you made me go look for it, but here it is.

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...t&p=1350751

I also still have some screenshots of the first part of the conversation on the Vox forums somewhere, but they are small and unreadable.

EDIT: I was also reminded of these, which although aren't as recent, are proof.

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...3386&hl=spy

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...3531&hl=spy

Those say nothing about GGA having a spy implanted in Vox, there are Vox screenshots dropped in queries by anonymous people from time to time. The fact that Degen saw one isn't particularly noteworthy. The fact that ironchef asked misr to confirm what she had heard secondhand about Vox goverment positions shows that she didn't have a spy. If she actually had a spy she wouldn't have had to ask him. As to what she asked from misr, that is certainly not uncommon to ask for information as part of a surrender. Is it an act of war? Sure it is. But its a far cry from actually implanting a spy.

I know NPO used to use spies also. Heck, most alliance have(in fact, Polar did and they got peace). If spying is grounds for never giving an alliance surrender, then you could argue any major alliance should never be allowed to surrender. Alliances have admitted before to having spies in the Blackstone Collusion and Vox. Most alliances just are much quieter about it.

Have you even read anything I have posted? Those alliances you named did not have concerted spying operations involving rerolls. When you begin to use rerolls you will get a much stronger reaction from your opponent because rerolls are much easier to disguise and infiltrate with. As far as I'm concerned rerolling with the intent to spy is the most heinous IC act possible in the game because it is a blatant exploit of game mechanics.

The alliances that have been perma-listed, FAN, GOONS, Vox, Blackstone etc have one universal in common, they have openly bragged about their plans to reroll and infiltrate their enemies. That is not a coincidence. The alliances that stood and fought straight up like Polar, MK, GR, GPA, and a bunch of others have peace now because they chose to not use that exploit of game mechanics or at very least they are not stupid enough to brag about it.

Note: I have no problem with people who reroll and move on to play a different character, they are not the subject of my rant against rerolls.

Edited April 6, 2009 by Bob Sanders

[Nintenderek]

The fact that ironchef asked misr to confirm what she had heard secondhand about Vox goverment positions shows that she didn't have a spy.

So I'm guessing Pikajew wasn't spying on Vox for GGA at all, right?

[Starfox101]

Those say nothing about GGA having a spy implanted in Vox, there are Vox screenshots dropped in queries by anonymous people from time to time. The fact that Degen saw one isn't particularly noteworthy. The fact that ironchef asked misr to confirm what she had heard secondhand about Vox goverment positions shows that she didn't have a spy. If she actually had a spy she wouldn't have had to ask him. As to what she asked from misr, that is certainly not uncommon to ask for information as part of a surrender. Is it an act of war? Sure it is. But its a far cry from actually implanting a spy.

Have you even read anything I have posted? Those alliances you named did not have concerted spying operations involving rerolls. When you begin to use rerolls you will get a much stronger reaction from your opponent because rerolls are much easier to disguise and infiltrate with. As far as I'm concerned rerolling with the intent to spy is the most heinous IC act possible in the game because it is a blatant exploit of game mechanics.

The alliances that have been perma-listed, FAN, GOONS, Vox, Blackstone etc have one universal in common, they have openly bragged about their plans to reroll and infiltrate their enemies. That is not a coincidence. The alliances that stood and fought straight up like Polar, MK, GR, GPA, and a bunch of others have peace now because they chose to not use that exploit of game mechanics or at very least they are not stupid enough to brag about it.

Note: I have no problem with people who reroll and move on to play a different character, they are not the subject of my rant against rerolls.

It's still spying whether you planted the spy, or not. Much of our intel comes from people who have been established in their alliances for long periods of time. We did not plant them there. Does that mean that we don't spy? By your logic, it does. Unfortunately, your logic is flawed and we do spy. And what ironchef did was spying, by definition, or any interpretation. She asked for private info by someone who was masked on our forums. That is spying. If I asked a former NPO member who still has a mask, for info, is it spying? You'd say yes, if we did it. Your attempted defense of the GGA here, is quite frankly, terrible. It's ironic though, that you defend their spying, and completely rail us, and say we deserve PZI for it. That's incredibly hypocritical.

I don't like you claiming we're bad guys for re-rolling and utilizing our resources. We do what we're forced to do. You don't give us a chance to play and force us to re-roll, and that makes us horrible people who exploit game mechanics? How about when the NPO abused an aid glitch in GW1 to rebuild? How about the Initiative's war plan based off on a glitch? How about the NPO's abuse of a deployment glitch in the war against GPA? I don't see you complaining about those, which are true exploits.

[Caliph]

Those say nothing about GGA having a spy implanted in Vox, there are Vox screenshots dropped in queries by anonymous people from time to time. The fact that Degen saw one isn't particularly noteworthy. The fact that ironchef asked misr to confirm what she had heard secondhand about Vox goverment positions shows that she didn't have a spy. If she actually had a spy she wouldn't have had to ask him. As to what she asked from misr, that is certainly not uncommon to ask for information as part of a surrender. Is it an act of war? Sure it is. But its a far cry from actually implanting a spy.

Have you even read anything I have posted? Those alliances you named did not have concerted spying operations involving rerolls. When you begin to use rerolls you will get a much stronger reaction from your opponent because rerolls are much easier to disguise and infiltrate with. As far as I'm concerned rerolling with the intent to spy is the most heinous IC act possible in the game because it is a blatant exploit of game mechanics.

The alliances that have been perma-listed, FAN, GOONS, Vox, Blackstone etc have one universal in common, they have openly bragged about their plans to reroll and infiltrate their enemies. That is not a coincidence. The alliances that stood and fought straight up like Polar, MK, GR, GPA, and a bunch of others have peace now because they chose to not use that exploit of game mechanics or at very least they are not stupid enough to brag about it.

Note: I have no problem with people who reroll and move on to play a different character, they are not the subject of my rant against rerolls.

I very much disagree. The alliances like FAN and the former GOONS were not granted peace because they spied, but because they threatened either Pacifica or Polar and the decision to never grant those alliances was made prior to any conserted or public endorsement of spying on their enemies. In essence, those alliances decision to publicly endorse spying was their reaction to the action of NPO and friends to refuse to grant them peace.

[Atahualpa Pachautec]

Dead or alive (FAN & VOX), keep this game on the going! plus This is a thread that keeps on giving, isn't it?