The Pax Pacifica.

[Sarah Tintagyl]

We have no grounds to expel Yamato, however, as we have clarified, in their case, it is an aggressive war, and we need not get involved.

"Very well...we understand."

[Maelstrom Vortex]

"The Empire acknowledges that it has violated this treaty and apologizes to the participants. We have no choice but to defend our neighbor against whom the Yamato have transgressed. We will attempt to apply post war, but in agreement with Greater Aotearoa's assessment of affairs we will willfully withdraw our membership rather than be ejected if that is desired."

[Subtleknifewielder]

"While not a full member, I assume I am allowed to make suggestions. Instead of expulsion, suspend the membership of both nations until this crisis is resolved. If anyone blatantly ignores any of the articles again, they would, of course, be immediately expelled."

[iKrolm]

Since there is no procedure to expel members from this agreement, currently the members being expelled are allowed to vote in their own favor, are they not?

[LeVentNoir]

Since there is no procedure to expel members from this agreement, currently the members being expelled are allowed to vote in their own favor, are they not?

It seems so.

In accordance with the Dragon Empires wishes, it has been removed from the list of signatories.

[Madame Unicorn]

We find it ridiculous that Yamato would even consider this kind of action, and we demand their expulsion from the Pax Pacifica.

We will not defend Yamato, but we will try to stop an unnecessary war.

By Dragon Empire wishing to be removed, we thank them, and respect their leaders even more for being diplomatic in this time.

Edited July 7, 2009 by Madame Unicorn

[iKrolm]

Official Release from the Selenarctan Security Division:

The Nation of Selenarctos will pay heed to the Pax Pacifica MDP until such time as Yamato withdraws or is removed from it. DDs-102, 103, 104 and 105 in the final stages of preparation, to be deployed within the next (OOC: 48 hours) unless circumstances change. Due to our small size however, we will only be defending the following area:

Edited July 7, 2009 by iKrolm

[LeVentNoir]

Official Release from the Selenarctan Security Division:

The Nation of Selenarctos will pay heed to the Pax Pacifica MDP until such time as Yamato withdraws or is removed from it. DDs-102, 103, 104 and 105 in the final stages of preparation, to be deployed within the next (OOC: 48 hours) unless circumstances change. Due to our small size however, we will only be defending the following area:

Indeed, we are not required to defend that nation. It is an aggressor, and Glorious Aotearoa does not consider the Declaration of War from the Dragon Empire to change that as it was a defensive recognition of consequence.

So, no forces will need to be deployed yet.

[iKrolm]

We are acting because we believe the withdrawal of the Dragon Empire signaled the admission that DE had declared war. Furthermore, with DE no longer a signatory, there is no conflict of interest as the MDP only calls for the defense of Yamato.

Despite these measures, we do not want a shooting war any more than anyone else and still support measures towards peace.

Edited July 7, 2009 by iKrolm

[Sargun II]

Yet again, the Dragon Empire did not declare war to quite a few people and even if they did Yamato is still the aggressor.

We apologize again for having to point out something very simple.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

To clarify, we have not declared war, we have recognized a state of war existing between Yamato and our Ally and therefore a war between our Yamato and ourselves as initiated by Yamato.

[LeVentNoir]

To clarify, we have not declared war, we have recognized a state of war existing between Yamato and our Ally and therefore a war between our Yamato and ourselves as initiated by Yamato.

Which would be correct reasoning if you are you ally were the same nation, however, you are not, so you did declare war in a defensive sense on Yamato. No more discussion of this shall be entered into here.

[iKrolm]

OOC: I'm assuming you meant no more discussion of whether or not DE declared war, not of whether the MDP is active or not

(to Sargun:)

IC: We fully see your point as until recently we argued it ourselves, however it does not change the fact that DE withdrew from Pax Pacifica and confirmed LVN's assessment of the situation where that DE violated the first clause when it recognized a war with Yamato. Because it recognized a war first, it declared war and therefore Yamato becomes the defensive nation, activating the MDP. (None of this changes the fact that it declared on Lu and is the aggressor there.)

To quote clause 2, "Signatories of this pact agree to aid and defend each other in the instance of a foreign attack in the pacific region." As such, we are preparing to defend Yamato territory from attacks by the Dragon Empire, however we hope that it does not come to that.

OOC: I don't agree with Yamato, hence only defending a couple of islands, but I think the MDP has been activated.

[Sargun II]

OOC: I'm assuming you meant no more discussion of whether or not DE declared war, not of whether the MDP is active or not

(to Sargun:)

IC: We fully see your point as until recently we argued it ourselves, however it does not change the fact that DE withdrew from Pax Pacifica and confirmed LVN's assessment of the situation where that DE violated the first clause when it recognized a war with Yamato. Because it recognized a war first, it declared war and therefore Yamato becomes the defensive nation, activating the MDP. (None of this changes the fact that it declared on Lu and is the aggressor there.)

To quote clause 2, "Signatories of this pact agree to aid and defend each other in the instance of a foreign attack in the pacific region." As such, we are preparing to defend Yamato territory from attacks by the Dragon Empire, however we hope that it does not come to that.

OOC: I don't agree with Yamato, hence only defending a couple of islands, but I think the MDP has been activated.

OOC: "so you did declare war in a defensive sense on Yamato."

IC: "so you did declare war in a defensive sense on Yamato."

I suggest PP get itself together.

[LeVentNoir]

OOC: I'm assuming you meant no more discussion of whether or not DE declared war, not of whether the MDP is active or not

(to Sargun:)

IC: We fully see your point as until recently we argued it ourselves, however it does not change the fact that DE withdrew from Pax Pacifica and confirmed LVN's assessment of the situation where that DE violated the first clause when it recognized a war with Yamato. Because it recognized a war first, it declared war and therefore Yamato becomes the defensive nation, activating the MDP. (None of this changes the fact that it declared on Lu and is the aggressor there.)

To quote clause 2, "Signatories of this pact agree to aid and defend each other in the instance of a foreign attack in the pacific region." As such, we are preparing to defend Yamato territory from attacks by the Dragon Empire, however we hope that it does not come to that.

OOC: I don't agree with Yamato, hence only defending a couple of islands, but I think the MDP has been activated.

The problem is that even though DE were the ones to declare war, it was a defensive move caused by the MDP with Lu. Hence, DE is the defendant, and Yamato still the aggressor. We have no obligation to aid Yamato. If a nation with no MDP to Lu attacks then we will have to mobilize.

[Subtleknifewielder]

"As the crisis seems to have passed, there seems no more need to discuss this issue."

[Arkantos]

Then again, since our application was drowned out by discussion, Aiginor applies for membership in Pax Pacifica.

[LeVentNoir]

Then again, since our application was drowned out by discussion, Aiginor applies for membership in Pax Pacifica.

Glorious Aotearoa cannot see the problem with this application. We vote in favour.

Membership for Aiginor:

Yes: 1

We also table an amendment.

Where as, if a signatory has broken the letter or the sprit of this Pax, then they may be expelled with a 2/3rds majority.

This amendment will need a simple majority to pass.

Amendment to the Pax

Yes: 1

[Madame Unicorn]

Yes to both.

[Subtleknifewielder]

We wish clarification on one point. Are there any issues on which a Pacific Holding Nation is permitted to vote?

[iKrolm]

The Nation of Selenarctos already voted yes to Aiginor and votes yes to the amendment.

Membership for Aiginor:

Yes: 3

Removal Amendment:

Yes: 3

We wish clarification on one point. Are there any issues on which a Pacific Holding Nation is permitted to vote?

Don't believe so.

EDIT: Only can't vote for amendments and admission.

The Nation would also like to propose the amendment of the following clause:

Deadlock: In the case of deadlock, Glorious Aotearoa, as founding member casts the deciding vote.

to this:

Deadlock: In the case of deadlock, The Hanseatic Commonwealth casts the deciding vote.

Deadlock Amendment:

Yes: 1

Edited July 12, 2009 by iKrolm

[Subtleknifewielder]

We note that if we were able to vote, we would say yes to that amendment.

[Sarah Tintagyl]

The Hansa votes for this amendment and thanks Selenarctos for the nomination. As to Aiginor we approve. In the coming days, we will have a new Pax Pacifican treaty for members to bring stability to the Pacific once again.

[Sargun II]

New Zealand wishes to apply for Pax Pacifican admission. We are in need of great assistance being a new, fledgling nation.

[iKrolm]

OOC: Hurrah for more votes!

IC:

The Nation of Selenarctos votes yes to New Zealand.

Removal Amendment:

Yes: 3

Deadlock Amendment:

Yes: 2

New Zealand:

Yes: 1

And Aiginor becomes a member with 4/6 of the vote, we await your signature. (Any remaining nations feel free to still cast your vote if you wish.)

Edited July 8, 2009 by iKrolm