Chemical/Biological Weapons Suggestion

[Centurius]

In RP all most everything has an IG penalties from Soldiers(low bills but still) to Nuclear Weapons with the exception of 2 being Cruise Missiles(have unlimited) and Biological/Chemical Missiles. Due to this every 0 infra nation could have thousands of the latter as such I would like to suggest the following. Biological/Chemical Weapons are directly tied to the in-game cruise missiles so you could have no more than 50 of these weapons. One of the most special reasons I have for this suggestion is the following. A good Biological or Chemical Attack can have the same or even worse effects than a Nuclear attack so it is bad for RP if people can have unlimited.

With this suggestion you could have a maximum of 50 Biological/Chemical Weapons for a very low daily price.

[LeVentNoir]

In RP all most everything has an IG penalties from Soldiers(low bills but still) to Nuclear Weapons with the exception of 2 being Cruise Missiles(have unlimited) and Biological/Chemical Missiles. Due to this every 0 infra nation could have thousands of the latter as such I would like to suggest the following. Biological/Chemical Weapons are directly tied to the in-game cruise missiles so you could have no more than 50 of these weapons. One of the most special reasons I have for this suggestion is the following. A good Biological or Chemical Attack can have the same or even worse effects than a Nuclear attack so it is bad for RP if people can have unlimited.

With this suggestion you could have a maximum of 50 Biological/Chemical Weapons for a very low daily price.

Good Idea. Bio / Chem / EMPs in total cannot count more than your IG CMs

[Triyun]

IMO we should also place a limit on these weapons destructive power. Having unkillable ebola that destroys entire nations is kinda cheap.

[Uberstein]

IMO we should also place a limit on these weapons destructive power. Having unkillable ebola that destroys entire nations is kinda cheap.

So is having friends in wars, or having better tanks, weren't you the one who wanted more realism? Putting limits on what a disease can do is unrealistic if you take away from it's RL abilities.

Using the argument of "It's cheap" while trying to be a champion of realism doesn't go together.

Edited February 24, 2009 by BaronUberstein

[Triyun]

The other things are a measure in game. This is not really. A nuke costs a lot more to maintain than these weapons, having them count as CMs which most large nations can easily buy 50 of a day is ridiculous.

[Uberstein]

The other things are a measure in game. This is not really. A nuke costs a lot more to maintain than these weapons, having them count as CMs which most large nations can easily buy 50 of a day is ridiculous.

Tell that to the Terrorists in the middle east. I could make some of these dangerous chemicals with stuff in my kitchen, if a government has a rocket to put it on it's easy.

Mustard Gas? Chlorine gas? Heck, it's easy to create an Ebola breeding center if you don't really care about the health of a batch of animals in a building.

[Bacharth]

Plus, I think nobody can complain about realism if they complain about basic or in depth stats of their military equipment, which almost everyone does.

[Triyun]

There is a profound difference between small chemical weapons, and weapons that have equivalent killing power of hydrogen bombs.

[Triyun]

The United States of China cabinet had been watching the situation in the North develop. The rise of groups that were considered anti-government were of particular worry to the USC. They had no desire to see their buffer state to the North fall. The President ordered plans ordered up to prevent the fall of the North to the red menace.

[Raritan]

The United States of China cabinet had been watching the situation in the North develop. The rise of groups that were considered anti-government were of particular worry to the USC. They had no desire to see their buffer state to the North fall. The President ordered plans ordered up to prevent the fall of the North to the red menace.

Wrong thread Tri?

[Uberstein]

There is a profound difference between small chemical weapons, and weapons that have equivalent killing power of hydrogen bombs.

It all matters on how much Ebola you pack in that missile, think if the United States decided to use Bio weapons? They would be devistating, but we have only seen examples of modern bio warfare by terrorist groups that have to build these things in caves instead of labs and factories.

[General Orlov]

The United States of China cabinet had been watching the situation in the North develop. The rise of groups that were considered anti-government were of particular worry to the USC. They had no desire to see their buffer state to the North fall. The President ordered plans ordered up to prevent the fall of the North to the red menace.

OOC: Are you tlaking about me?

[Justinian the Mighty]

If we have to have a limit I would agree with this one. We just can’t trust some people to keep themselves from going crazy and trying to destroy the world.

[HHAYD]

Good Idea. Bio / Chem / EMPs in total cannot count more than your IG CMs

Guess how much CN money is 50 CMs are going to bite in my nation's daily income? A lot.

Instead of basing the EMO/Biological/Chemical missiles on the amount of CMs you would have (who would keep a stockpile of 50 CMs just for CNRP?), just set the limit of 50 or base it on the amount of infra you IG nation has.

Edited February 25, 2009 by HHAYD

[LeVentNoir]

It all matters on how much Ebola you pack in that missile, think if the United States decided to use Bio weapons? They would be devistating, but we have only seen examples of modern bio warfare by terrorist groups that have to build these things in caves instead of labs and factories.

There are several books around detailing international biological warfare. Its truly terrifying, and nuclear sterilization occurs often.

[Karl Peters]

I have something to add. If you have more than 25 Bio/Chemcial Weapons, you cannot get Nuclear Weapons. It would make you decided to have either have Nuclear Weapons and a limited amount of Chemcial Weapons or have only Bio/Chemical Weapons.

Edited February 25, 2009 by Bismarck21

[Lavo]

I agree with the OP, but I would treat it more like soldiers instead (aka. limit is based on the max amount of CMs you can purchase).

[Gebiv]

I was never in favor of forcing nation to hurt themselves to increase RP strength, myself.

[Uberstein]

I have something to add. If you have more than 25 Bio/Chemcial Weapons, you cannot get Nuclear Weapons. It would make you decided to have either have Nuclear Weapons and a limited amount of Chemcial Weapons or have only Bio/Chemical Weapons.

I thought we were trying for realism here.

[Triyun]

Wrong thread Tri?

I thought I posted that and didn't see it in that thread >>

My concern here is that people may be deploying bio weapons that are nuke equivalent but purchasing them at cruise missile prices.

[Uberstein]

But then you are ignoring the fact that I can make mustard gas in my kitchen, think of what a nation could do.

[Vasili Markov]

But then you are ignoring the fact that I can make mustard gas in my kitchen, think of what a nation could do.

Lets talk in terms of hard science and proven facts:

A 1910 level tech country can easily produce chemical weapons.

WW1 Germany was a major user of mustard gas and other chemical agents.

Chemical and Bio weapons have been dubbed the poor man's nuke by the defence community and rightfully so, If these weapons were used to their maximum effect they could rival a nuke in destructive power.

And they can be produced for a fraction of the cost of a nuclear weapon, And while it is true that chem/bio agents have a lesser destructive potential per unit when compared to a nuke, it is offset by their low cost and the fact that multiple types can be used concurrently to maximise their destructive capacity (one virus kills 50% of the population that is not immune to it and a second virus kills 50% of the remainder that is not immune to both) and the area of effect can be made to equal a nuke by using deliveries of the agent(s). (using multiple missiles/shells/warheads)

Biochem warfare is indeed scary and I am surprised that this discussion has not came up sooner.

[Centurius]

Guess how much CN money is 50 CMs are going to bite in my nation's daily income? A lot.

Instead of basing the EMO/Biological/Chemical missiles on the amount of CMs you would have (who would keep a stockpile of 50 CMs just for CNRP?), just set the limit of 50 or base it on the amount of infra you IG nation has.

Number of Cruise Missiles 50

Daily Cruise Missiles Cost (Per 1 Unit) $156.80

Cruise Missiles Bill $7,840.00

That is with lead without it will be 10,000 without, and when going to that point who would keep a full navy/Air Force/Soldier Count/Nuke count for CNRP? Many. Frankly these weapons must be limited and should have an in-game penalty.

[Uberstein]

Lets talk in terms of hard science and proven facts:

A 1910 level tech country can easily produce chemical weapons.

WW1 Germany was a major user of mustard gas and other chemical agents.

Chemical and Bio weapons have been dubbed the poor man's nuke by the defence community and rightfully so, If these weapons were used to their maximum effect they could rival a nuke in destructive power.

And they can be produced for a fraction of the cost of a nuclear weapon, And while it is true that chem/bio agents have a lesser destructive potential per unit when compared to a nuke, it is offset by their low cost and the fact that multiple types can be used concurrently to maximise their destructive capacity (one virus kills 50% of the population that is not immune to it and a second virus kills 50% of the remainder that is not immune to both) and the area of effect can be made to equal a nuke by using deliveries of the agent(s). (using multiple missiles/shells/warheads)

Biochem warfare is indeed scary and I am surprised that this discussion has not came up sooner.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Heck, I think Anthrax is just a dried plant extract or something.

[Triyun]

There are very different forms of bio and chemical weapons. The deadly nation killing bio weapons are much harder to make. Also anthrax is a bacteria.

Edited February 25, 2009 by Triyun