LynnCreed Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 I was just wondering if anyone would rate the resources differently now that some effect Navies. I think they gave a slight (needed) boost to Lead and Uranium. Then again those resources still don't really help new nations. How would you guys rate the resources now? Would you say any have changed in worth because of the addition of Navies? I ask b/c I have an idea to help balance the trade system but I'd like to know which resources need the help. The Navies might have changed where some resources stand but I'm not good at gauging how much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schmutte693 Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 This is a great question, aside from the idea of making a re-balance of resources suggestion. Another thing to consider in this is that Steel is now worth something, it ofres something like a 15% discount on ships, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzzptm Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 First and foremost, every player should fill in all his or her available trade slots. The harbor should be the first improvement purchased. No player should double up on resources: get 12 different ones. Last, no matter what, the bonus combos are still the way to go. Even though some resources give discounts on naval maintenance, other resources that boost income do essentially the same thing, ie, make stuff more affordable in the bottom-line calculations. I think at the lower NS ranges, the resources that make naval maintenance cheaper might prove to be more important to nations that want to build up a big navy. At the higher ranges, I don't see much profit in trying to minimize naval bills while sacrificing some other income or population boosting resource. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnCreed Posted July 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2008 those are good points. so overall the resource values haven't changed much, then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzzptm Posted July 12, 2008 Report Share Posted July 12, 2008 those are good points. so overall the resource values haven't changed much, then? Honestly, I think you're right. There's a change, but not much. I think the game will move more to a system in which we have to make harder and harder choices about our nations, and that's a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnCreed Posted July 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2008 I don't mind that, but i'd still like the resources balanced. I have an idea to bring new resources into the game via an improvement or wonder (colonies). that way we won't have to wait until a significant amount of new people join the game in order to be able to reasonably trade for the new ones. they'd have bonuses with some of the ill-favored resources so that they'll be able to compete with construction. the resources and bonuses would need to be able to do new things or else they'd just look like the same resources with different pictures and slightly tweaked numbers. so here are some of my ideas for what the bonuses could do (an opinion on whether or not they would be able to compete with Construction or if would still be top when these are added would be nice): one bonus would make nations able to buy 2 more tech levels at a time before the cost goes up (to complement resources like Gold and Lead plus some of the new resources) One would increase citizens per miles of land (resources like Furs and maybe Wine plus some new resources. it would be Tourism or something) one would decrease the number of citizens needed per improvement (not sure which resources would fall under this yet) so would those bonuses be able to compete with construction? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzzptm Posted July 13, 2008 Report Share Posted July 13, 2008 Those bonuses might compete, but I question if they'd be allowed. They might unbalance things too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viluin Posted July 13, 2008 Report Share Posted July 13, 2008 I'm having a ton of trouble finding a lead/gold trade, so I'm assuming more people want those resources now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ugexe Posted July 13, 2008 Report Share Posted July 13, 2008 I'm having a ton of trouble finding a lead/gold trade, so I'm assuming more people want those resources now. I'm sure that has more to do with that pair of resources being pretty damn rare. And i'm sure *that's* because those resources suck and people who got them were more likely to reroll/get bored and quit. I HIGHLY doubt navies had any significant effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnCreed Posted July 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2008 Those bonuses might compete, but I question if they'd be allowed. They might unbalance things too much. would they unbalance things in the reverse of how they are now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzzptm Posted July 13, 2008 Report Share Posted July 13, 2008 would they unbalance things in the reverse of how they are now? Quite possibly. The trick is to find things that lead to competing, equally effective strategies, not things that replace current strategies with a new one. For example, the government type change... when Monarchy lost its star, there was some fudging around, and then the game settled on Capitalism and Republic as the new "best governments". Some hold out, but that's the consensus. I think it would have been better if each government type had one bonus, not several, then one would have to make a clear choice in his nation-building strategy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viluin Posted July 13, 2008 Report Share Posted July 13, 2008 I'm sure that has more to do with that pair of resources being pretty damn rare. And i'm sure *that's* because those resources suck and people who got them were more likely to reroll/get bored and quit.I HIGHLY doubt navies had any significant effect. I don't know.. There aren't many of them, but nearly all of them have full trade slots. Only a few have 1 empty slot. Yes, just 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnCreed Posted July 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2008 Quite possibly. The trick is to find things that lead to competing, equally effective strategies, not things that replace current strategies with a new one.For example, the government type change... when Monarchy lost its star, there was some fudging around, and then the game settled on Capitalism and Republic as the new "best governments". Some hold out, but that's the consensus. I think it would have been better if each government type had one bonus, not several, then one would have to make a clear choice in his nation-building strategy. the thing is that you can't make equally effective strategies without adding something new. there's no way you're ever goign to justify having Furs give an infra discount. also, making new bonuses that give the same benefits as construction only doing it with resources like Furs also doesn't make any sense. can you justify a bonus resource for Furs that gives an infra bonus? besides, new options mean new strategies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeternos Astramora Posted July 14, 2008 Report Share Posted July 14, 2008 (edited) the thing is that you can't make equally effective strategies without adding something new. there's no way you're ever goign to justify having Furs give an infra discount. also, making new bonuses that give the same benefits as construction only doing it with resources like Furs also doesn't make any sense. can you justify a bonus resource for Furs that gives an infra bonus? besides, new options mean new strategies. Furs make good coats. Good coats means people can work in the cold better. Working in the cold better means that they can build more infrastructure. Edit: But don't use otter furs. Edited July 14, 2008 by Aeternos Astramora Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnCreed Posted July 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2008 ^lolz. i don't think Kevin would accept that logic. XD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lavo Posted July 14, 2008 Report Share Posted July 14, 2008 then the game settled on Capitalism and Republic as the new "best governments". Not if you government swap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SynthFG Posted July 14, 2008 Report Share Posted July 14, 2008 I'm sure that has more to do with that pair of resources being pretty damn rare. And i'm sure *that's* because those resources suck and people who got them were more likely to reroll/get bored and quit.I HIGHLY doubt navies had any significant effect. Both of those resources contribute to Microchips A highly desirable bonus for small tech trading nations and part of several bonus builds with the recent cahnges builds incorporating Lead, Oil (another microchip resource) are desirable for larger nations wishing to maintain large fleets, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syzygy Posted July 14, 2008 Report Share Posted July 14, 2008 Well, the navies do not completely change the resource balance, but, they took indeed away a small bit of the right now overwhelming advantage of the 3BG setup. The 5BG and even more the 7/8BG Setups get good purchase and upkeep boni for naval units, so especially during a long war (where the 3BG can't use its bonus of the higher collection, since most large nations will be in (nuclear) anarchy) they will perform better, their warchest will last longer, they can replace their losses cheaper. If you have to replace ~100 ships during a 20days war and need to pay upkeep for a 50ships-navy all days, you will notice that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londo Mollari Posted July 14, 2008 Report Share Posted July 14, 2008 Lead is looking like a damn good resource to me, personally. Microchips still marginal. Lead just has so many damn bonuses. It reduces nuke upkeep and cost, it reduces military upkeep and cost, it reduces navy upkeep and cost, and it halves the environment penalty for holding nukes. Plus, you can get scholars if you have lumber. I'd say lead is pretty much a must now for any nation that may have to fight a war. Only problem is it cuts into the feasibility of cattle as a resource significantly for industrial circles. Number crunching to do there. All things being equal, I would echo Syz's statement that the industrial circles are better for fighting wars. They are also better for maintaining large navies, which may end up being necessary for some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnCreed Posted July 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2008 (edited) Okay, so Lead might not need so much help anymore, but everyone agrees Furs and Gold could use boosts, yes? Edited July 14, 2008 by LynnCreed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain V Posted July 14, 2008 Report Share Posted July 14, 2008 Okay, so Lead might not need so much help anymore, but everyone agrees Furs and Gold could use boosts, yes? And gems! And gems! /lousy, no-good resource... //:P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londo Mollari Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 Furs and Gold are part of Affluent Pop, so I see no problem there. The problem arises when you get something like.... furs and rubber... or furs and oil. That's just a crappy combination no matter how you slice it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnCreed Posted July 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 Affluent pop needs too many resources to get it. as far as bad combinations go, my suggestion will fix that, so really i just need to know which resources need help and if my suggested bonus resources would be okay to use or if they'd be too powerful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Badger Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 Furs and Gold are part of Affluent Pop, so I see no problem there.The problem arises when you get something like.... furs and rubber... or furs and oil. That's just a crappy combination no matter how you slice it. Agreed. there aren't really any bad resources anymore. Some are stronger than others but every resource has a place. There are only bad combinations like silver/rubber or furs/oil. You can't do much with them combinations as one resource leads you to one trade set and the other resource leads you to another trade set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnCreed Posted July 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 alright then. so I just gotta fix the bad combos and we're good then. works for me. thanks, guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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