CNRP Reset Vote

[PresidentDavid]

 

It is of my own opinion that CNRP has grown incredibly dull and uncreative. Admittedly, part of that has to do with us having lost a lot if not most of our creative writers but that is a problem that I can not change. 

 

For those who argue that I do not have the authority to make this post and have a vote, I say to you that since CNRP has existed and since I have been here a democratic vote from players of CNRP can trump any GM ruling or decision regardless of what it is as long as it was within CN Forum Rules. 

 

Now, down to the meat of what a "Reset" will be for the game. 

 

A) The past history and past RP of everything ever done is wiped away clean. 

 

B) The map is wiped clean (meaning it is completely white for the first time in a long time) 

 

C) Once the game is reset, no one may make their new nation within nor control the same territory they had for 30 RL days starting Monday (Nov. 18) (this doesn't mean you can't go to war with someone in your former territory though)

 

D) The GMs court still exists and past rules still exist. OOCly everything is the same, ICly everything is gone.

 

 

 

Voting for this will remain open for 72 hours. So Monday at 11:01PM (CST) this poll will close. Enjoy. (You must have a CNRP nation to vote) 

Edited November 16, 2013 by PresidentDavid

[KaiserMelech Mikhail]

No.  Poll closed.  Next issue, who's bringing the nachos to the tailgaiting party.

[Captain Enema]

Poll reopened, none the less it should be noted that the results of this poll will be nonbinding, yet will serve as a lithmus test of the population at large.

 

I'm for it, but don't really think it'll make a difference myself. I also recognize that it would be a shame to wipe away much of the hard work done by people like IA and dare I say Triyun (shudders). Might make me want to puke to be fair to the likes of those scallywags, so I'll just puke and be fair.

[Rayan Thomas]

.

Edited June 19, 2019 by Rayan Thomas

[KaiserMelech Mikhail]

I believe that CNRP has grown to the stage were it is hard for new RPers to move in, and many will not understand how RPing works. I believe a reset is in order.

If you can list reasons why, we would love the input so we can begin to solve the problems that keep new people away.  I know lots of people immediately bail because they can't get the land they want, but if there are any real reasons, they would be great to know.

[Captain Enema]

Or just stick to the point of a nonbinding vote, you already know the problems.

[Evangeline Anovilis]

I don't think this is a (long-term) solution to anything. I already made the argument elsewhere, but I can repeat it here: With what you propose, you'll mostly get people sitting outside their current holdings, waiting 30 days before launching the grand reconquest of their former holdings, or they will start a different nation they fancy and start to build new empires from there. What we have currently are large consolidated epires that are content with just existing. What you create are alltogether new empires of frustrated people that will be restoring the status quo ante reset within two months.

[Justinian the Mighty]

You should run for congress because this is the most worthless proposal anyone has come up with. It solves nothing. You define the problem as a lack of creativity, so "lets destroy the entire creative past of cnrp."

 

Oh wait I have another one. "lack of creativity and dullness the axis of evil, so lets destroy the map."

[Evangeline Anovilis]

For those who argue that I do not have the authority to make this post and have a vote, I say to you that since CNRP has existed and since I have been here a democratic vote from players of CNRP can trump any GM ruling or decision regardless of what it is as long as it was within CN Forum Rules. 

Just for clarification, we are a democratic system, yes. However, such a proposal up to now was first brought up for discussion and once the proposal seemed to have a clear outline and support, a GM would make a binding poll on it with a time limit of normally 48 hours. It is thus that we can discuss this proposal, but the current poll is non-binding. And I can't speak for Justinian or Melech, but I personally won't initiate a poll as long as the vast majority of RPers is against this measure, as indicated by responses and your poll.

 

In regards to your frustration with the system, I really must say that your proposal seems not too thought out and a bit too radical for my taste. It attacks a symptom, but not the cause of the phenomenon you describe and is very unlikely to have lasting results. And given that even if this would pass, there is a clear number of people that utterly oppose this measure, all we'd get is a more polarised community between "expropriated land holders" and "already impoverished peasantry". Those who held land  the past will be angry, but are still equipped with the muscle to "retake what is theirs", the people who currently seem to lose out won't profit at all. Say I'd approve of this measure, because I want France, I may be able to get it, but after 30 days I won't be in any better position to hold it against Cent or others than currently and I'd not expect much mercy from a person you kicked out of their holdings.

 

I hope this is reasonable also in your opinion, PD, otherwise, feel free to discuss this with me here or on IRC.

[Centurius]

For one the right to make a poll has been reserved to GMs ever since the mod ruling was implemented. Player-made polls only enjoyed validity if later sanctioned by a GM.

 

As for the reset, no. Resetting will wipe away all historical players such as Mudd and BR have done. Furthermore it will not change a thing. The same people will be in control as are now and you know why? Because those people are the only ones with the strength, skill and balls to do it. 

 

If anything is going to change it's that these people will be back with a vengeance in new nations and start an amount of conquering like it is 2008.

[PresidentDavid]

I don't think this is a (long-term) solution to anything. I already made the argument elsewhere, but I can repeat it here: With what you propose, you'll mostly get people sitting outside their current holdings, waiting 30 days before launching the grand reconquest of their former holdings, or they will start a different nation they fancy and start to build new empires from there. What we have currently are large consolidated epires that are content with just existing. What you create are alltogether new empires of frustrated people that will be restoring the status quo ante reset within two months.

 

I honestly do not think that will be the case however if that is the case it sure will be a glorious thing to watch. 

Edited November 16, 2013 by PresidentDavid

[PresidentDavid]

Or just stick to the point of a nonbinding vote, you already know the problems.

 

It is binding. It is a community vote for the game. 

[Evangeline Anovilis]

I honestly do not think that will be the case however if that is the case it sure will be a glorious thing to watch. 

You do realise that those who don't have much now would have even less after this, most likely. Just out of personal interest, what do you plan to do in case this would actually pass as a binding vote? You can PM it or query me, if you want.

 

It is binding. It is a community vote for the game. 

It's non-binding. We can regard this as a discussion thread, but it is not binding until a GM makes an official poll on this.

[Triyun]

Here's what will happen:

 

Edited November 16, 2013 by Triyun

[Lestari]

It's funny, because that's pretty much Tianxia as it is now.

[Evangeline Anovilis]

It's funny, because that's pretty much Tianxia as it is now.

Well, instead of India, Britain and Canada, Tianxia includes China, the better part of Japan and Central Asia. And partly, this is the point: A reset will neither change the fact that empires will come into existence, nor will it change who it is that owns them. It may however change where they are, but not even that is certain.
 
Just for the record, a short exerpt from #cnrp:

<Centurius> Now I think about this, for us a reset wouldn't even be bad at all :P
<Himawari> It would not be.
<Triyun> I oppose it on principle
<Centurius> agreed

[Triyun]

Exactly, what grand coalition can rise up in the new world thats not here already or couldn't be here if they wanted? How would a fight be different.  Why would people choose different sides when so many people are just plain outright disrespectful.  For example, I hate to pick on PD, but he was a few months ago going off about Tianxia, and admitted to never reading my threads.  He was just making assertions, why exactly am I going to look to want to do stuff with PD in this new world instead of Sarah or Cent? So I don't expect alliances to change that much player wise nor the make up of role plays to change that much.  And if they don't I still have the same army, I just need to move it around, but I do that anyways.  So this makes no real sense  In regards to my opposition to this on principal, if the same people unsatisfied now, get unsatisfied in a month, what do we restart again?  Are players they don't like killing creativity etc?  Its illogical, all of us are where we are because skill, time, and effort put into the game, beyond that almost everyone is RPing where they want to right now.  PDs been giving Ireland and Texas a bajillion times in like the past 3 weeks it seems with the amount he's rerolled.  Eva's got Japan.  You guys need to move away from this emotionally and look at it analytically.  

 

Look at the root causes, the map has very little to do with it, because the map doesn't effect strength at all.  Strength is hard power NS + soft power (Player influence).  That will remain constant.  You pretty much need to come out and ask to ban certain players (which the mods have already ruled illegal) or look towards other avenues to alter strength calculus (such as the proposals I made in he other thread).  

[PresidentDavid]

Exactly, what grand coalition can rise up in the new world thats not here already or couldn't be here if they wanted? How would a fight be different.  Why would people choose different sides when so many people are just plain outright disrespectful.  For example, I hate to pick on PD, but he was a few months ago going off about Tianxia, and admitted to never reading my threads.  He was just making assertions, why exactly am I going to look to want to do stuff with PD in this new world instead of Sarah or Cent? So I don't expect alliances to change that much player wise nor the make up of role plays to change that much.  And if they don't I still have the same army, I just need to move it around, but I do that anyways.  So this makes no real sense  In regards to my opposition to this on principal, if the same people unsatisfied now, get unsatisfied in a month, what do we restart again?  Are players they don't like killing creativity etc?  Its illogical, all of us are where we are because skill, time, and effort put into the game, beyond that almost everyone is RPing where they want to right now.  PDs been giving Ireland and Texas a bajillion times in like the past 3 weeks it seems with the amount he's rerolled.  Eva's got Japan.  You guys need to move away from this emotionally and look at it analytically.  

 

Look at the root causes, the map has very little to do with it, because the map doesn't effect strength at all.  Strength is hard power NS + soft power (Player influence).  That will remain constant.  You pretty much need to come out and ask to ban certain players (which the mods have already ruled illegal) or look towards other avenues to alter strength calculus (such as the proposals I made in he other thread).  

 

Actually I said I don't read most people's threads - not just yours. Those who post they are building tanks and update their threads with percentages bore me, while dull diplomatic threads make me want to rip out my hair. For those who actually write RolePlay, I try to pay attention when I can.

 

And finally I think the "root cause" of the problem is that particular individuals would rather never take any action and see no results than take any action and see any results. Your actions and opinions are reminiscent to that of John Dickinson's. And so far they have yielded the exact same outcome - no change and no solution. My hat is off to you, good sir. 

Edited November 17, 2013 by PresidentDavid

[Centurius]

Actually I said I don't read most people's threads - not just yours. Those who post they are building tanks and update their threads with percentages bore me, while dull diplomatic threads make me want to rip out my hair. For those who actually write RolePlay, I try to pay attention when I can.

 

And finally I think the "root cause" of the problem is that particular individuals would rather never take any action and see no results than take any action and see any results. Your actions and opinions are reminiscent to that of John Dickinson's. And so far they have yielded the exact same outcome - no change and no solution. My hat is off to you, good sir. 

Yeah the people in charge are the ones that took action, and in a post-reset world they will be again.

[Triyun]

Yeah the people in charge are the ones that took action, and in a post-reset world they will be again.

 

Precisely.  

 

Beyond that you're not offering any reasons why a restart would work.  In the other thread there are long posts discussing the incentive structures of alternative proposals, the pros and cons.  You've rerolled more times than I can remember in the past few months, what has it yielded you PD?  Why do you assume if you re-roll again and make everyone else do the same it will be different?  Has anyone restricted your freedom as a re-roller?  I can't imagine that's the case.  

 

Also if you don't read most people's RPs, that begs the question what do you know about the creativity in the community?  Cause you say you don't read people's RP threads who don't do RPs, but I have a lot of RP threads which meet the standard of what you say you do read, yet you haven't read them.  What else are you missing?  Maybe you make assumptions.  I think quite a few people have a lot of RP threads.  Frankly it sounds like you're just being kind of lazy while dressing it up in condescension that's uncalled for.

Edited November 17, 2013 by Triyun

[PresidentDavid]

Precisely.  

 

Beyond that you're not offering any reasons why a restart would work.  In the other thread there are long posts discussing the incentive structures of alternative proposals, the pros and cons.  You've rerolled more times than I can remember in the past few months, what has it yielded you PD?  Why do you assume if you re-roll again and make everyone else do the same it will be different?  Has anyone restricted your freedom as a re-roller?  I can't imagine that's the case.  

 

Also if you don't read most people's RPs, that begs the question what do you know about the creativity in the community?  Cause you say you don't read people's RP threads who don't do RPs, but I have a lot of RP threads which meet the standard of what you say you do read, yet you haven't read them.  What else are you missing?  Maybe you make assumptions.  I think quite a few people have a lot of RP threads.  Frankly it sounds like you're just being kind of lazy while dressing it up in condescension that's uncalled for.

 

I don't mean to pick on you Triyun, but you control a third (if not more) of the planet. I simply think it would spark interest in people to roleplay in places where they haven't before (and no one has been able to for a long time) like China or France or Italy or places in America. 

 

The only downside I could see to doing this is that everyone will have to do a lot of writing to restart everything... Which would cause activity. 

 

But please, do you have a physical alternative other than repeatedly saying that everyone should stop complaining and be nice to eachother? I'm all ears. But personally I think you like the status quo. 

[Triyun]

Yes as a matter of fact PD I do.  Its called reading what I told you to read in the last two posts that you just promptly talked past and ignored, but since you chose to ignore it rudely, here it is:

 

            #45            

 

Now in regards to your claim about size.  That's not really that valid at all.  Sarah's been offered Southern France just his week.  Eva got it when she requested to RP it.  Eva got Japan a part that was occupied for the longest period of time.  Sarah got Venice when it was under Cent's control.  China proper isn't easy to get access to but all the periphery states are and not one person has asked for China.  Also what places in America haven't been available?  Again what land is really that unattainable.  You may not be able to get the exact thing you want but you can get pretty damn close 99% of the time.  This is why your position seems so insulting.  You talk like others have inaction, make sweeping generalization about them, but you don't really seem to have a grasp on any facts or figures.  And I hate to be rude, but I have to be very frank with you.  It seems like there is a pattern where you just go after people before you read what they say.  If you do that, and just go off your own preexisting views which often are at best informed by incomplete information you're basically just doing moderate demagoguery rather than honest discussion. 

[PresidentDavid]

Yes as a matter of fact PD I do.  Its called reading what I told you to read in the last two posts that you just promptly talked past and ignored, but since you chose to ignore it rudely, here it is:

 

            #45            

 

Now in regards to your claim about size.  That's not really that valid at all.  Sarah's been offered Southern France just his week.  Eva got it when she requested to RP it.  Eva got Japan a part that was occupied for the longest period of time.  Sarah got Venice when it was under Cent's control.  China proper isn't easy to get access to but all the periphery states are and not one person has asked for China.  Also what places in America haven't been available?  Again what land is really that unattainable.  You may not be able to get the exact thing you want but you can get pretty damn close 99% of the time.  This is why your position seems so insulting.  You talk like others have inaction, make sweeping generalization about them, but you don't really seem to have a grasp on any facts or figures.  And I hate to be rude, but I have to be very frank with you.  It seems like there is a pattern where you just go after people before you read what they say.  If you do that, and just go off your own preexisting views which often are at best informed by incomplete information you're basically just doing moderate demagoguery rather than honest discussion. 

 

There's a difference between allowing someone to RP in a controlled location where one can keep one's eye over them and a totally different scenario when someone has strategic independence that simply wasn't handed from them. And I read what you say, I just typically don't think it is good enough. I'm asking you for the answer to 2+2 and instead of 4 you're trying to explain why there are four seasons. 

 

And honestly I see a lot more variables in your plan that can go wrong then mine. I'm not completely reshaping the game (something that would be virtually impossible to do in a reasonable time frame and unlikely to have all of the needed changes made). I really don't see the problem with a reset, other than it disrupts the current state of players. What you are asking for is way to complex and will force people to RP things they do not know how or want to RP. I think it sounds well and I would be willing to try it, but it would take a very analytic and not necessarily creative mind to do it. 

 

To each his own. But this lame-duck situation we are in right now is definitely not working. 

 

I would rather you try to do something to increase activity because people see you more as a leader. But arguing with me right here is doing nothing. Please take initiative for the rest of us and try to make an OOC change. I feel you have the best potential to see results if you truly put your mind to it.

Edited November 17, 2013 by PresidentDavid

[Triyun]

What mystical force exactly do you think is going to keep a nation enforcing its will on another nation once you hit the reset button?  Good will?  Well you'd just have put up a big fuck you sign to the players who can conquer a lot more but restrain themselves by just wiping their nations cause you didn't like the outcome.  Respect for others role play?  You just said you can't be bothered with a lot of players role plays, so why pray tell should they care one bit about the integrity of yours?

 

I am doing things for the record not just sitting around, but I don't have dictatorial powers to impose new rules.  Your topic on the other hand is extremely destructive and bears its major flaws being pointed out.

[PresidentDavid]

There are 8 other people that think it is a good idea. Granted not all of them are in CNRP but them seem to have some interest in it? I'm not sure.

 

And I didn't imply you have dictatorial powers. I just said you are seen as a leader around here.