The Assassination of Rhianne Sidamo by the Coward Andrea Gloval

[Tanis777]

[quote name='Executive Minister' timestamp='1358402673' post='3077895']
No time to analyze the entire hubbub that's been created here with the time it deserves just yet, but i'll respond to this quickly.

Its just a faster Tu-22M, or rather, a Tu-22M that can get away at speeds. If you must, you could think of it as a smaller Tu-160. Same usage.

As for super unrealistic, please tell me you've talked about the Mach 20 exoatmospheric drone fighters. Mach 3 pales in comparison.

I have a qualm with Centurius escaping with so little kills on his bombers. Again, if he argues he can remain stealth under those circumstances, and you guys expect me to accept that wholeheartedly, then you're asking the entire community to accept the fact that Cent's bombers are basically invulnerable to detection as no other scenario like the one he stumbled into would produce a stronger chance to detect that aircraft.
[/quote]

I still cannot accept the fact that it can still be a true ground attack asset with Mach 3 capabilities. I can see a one-time afterburner burst to Mach 3, but constant Mach 3, definitely no. I could take it as a medium bomber role with air-to-ground missile payload, but the forces exerted any material of the plane would thoroughly tested, especially, bomb bay openings at those speeds. You would trade speed for maneuverability, which for a ground attack craft is the complete opposite of what you want for such a role and would be more fitting of a bomber role.

I haven't talked on the Mach 20 drone, but I would say that no such thing would be out by 2030 anyways. If it's for intelligence gathering... it would be pointless, and if it did hold weapons, it wouldn't be a lot.

________________________________________________________________________

Look, I've already touched that carbon nanotube RAM and other metamaterials is just a spiffy technology that won't reach next generation aircraft, regardless of what general publications are out there right now. It's still on it's infancy stage in laboratory settings on little wafer cones, while next generation aircraft design is well underway at major aerospace companies. If it viable, it will be to late-intro sixth gen or seventh generation aircraft that would cover the entire EM spectrum with demonstration models by the mid-2020s most likely. Lessons of the F-35 are still yet to be learned, even as it's a refinement of current technology.

I would suspect that any new RAM will suffer from the maintenance downtime and other special needs that stealth aircraft have inherited, that is anyone in this game has stealth fifth and sixth generation aircraft have ignored, calling into question multiple people's aircraft beyond the current realm of known aircraft. Carbon nanotube is most likely going to be a paint, but that will include normal wear and tear and climate induced changes to the airframe. Materials science may defeat Moore's Law finally, but it will be expensive.

I know in the past we've discussed such aircraft abilities, but growing older, new knowledge appears to combat old long-standing assumptions for the community, most of which will be uncomfortable, I acknowledge. I'm not afraid to challenge long standing assumptions, this goes for everyone. Not just to TSI and co, but I'm open to question AUP's arsenal. I'm calling into question long-standing things across a wide spectrum, most of which would point back to the early days. Things that I didn't touch because my knowledge then was not a great as it is now. If anyone want to argue points, I'm prepared to look at every angle, that's how I approach this debate.

I've stated earlier that it's highly improbably that such RAM would be used in favor of other technology that is cheaper apart from the weight issue that was brought up. I'm sure everyone fielding sixth generation aircraft on here is as big or bigger than the F-22 platform while lightweight production is possible, other factor of increased internal hard points and extended combat radii all add to the weight issue, not to mention overcoming decent power plants to obtain proper fuel efficiency, thrust, power-to-weight ratio and maintain low IR signature.


In conclusion, that's my argument of improbably. I could argue to cop out and let it stand for the war, as the truth behind carbon nanotube RAM and other metamaterials that it blocks the entire EM spectrum is undeniably true, but without proper in-between flight maintenance make such aircraft way easier to be discovered since they are painted on. This is my back-up compromise to the situation I've outlined above, it would allow the post to stand, but inattentive RPing would dictate future action. I had a longer discussion on carbon nanotube RAM and how to counteract it, we thought of some various ways, but I'm not going to spoil that fun.

Edited January 17, 2013 by Tanis777

[Centurius]

I'd like to establish that if our weapons are being held to economic standards so should AUP's defensive networks. No remotely realistic state would be able to maintain a network that apparently produces enough radiation that you could fry every bird even remotely in range on a continental scale 24/7/365.

[Kankou]

I'm not sure why economics comes into the dispute (why Tanis, why?), given that the tech itself is questionable.

[Tanis777]

The tech is questionable beyond economics of course. The AUP defense network does not have any band that uses high enough radiation that comes close to a DEW, except near fatal radiation on AWACS. What you're advocating is that they have DEWs, in which, they do not have as far as I see. EM's post saying that they could is false and clearly wrong. We've been down this road before as you brought it up before on IRC Cent and I talked to him about it. He is using bands that as known to detect stealth aircraft.

Having various tactical radar modules with different EM bands being used isn't out of the question. Comparing aircraft to radar is an apples to oranges argument, clearly because radar considerations at the present time benefit heavily from Moore's Law thus overall cheaper. Also, it's would be quite feasible a very robust multi-static radar network for cheap, in which, has in this present day been pushed by various nations, I would not be surprised by increased power and range (range still within reason) by nations in 2025-2030.

While economics is a consideration I do use in making a judgment, I've used that edge rarely in making a judgment in here on this thread so far. I did shoot your technology based on engineering considerations more than anything else, considering if you read previous entries. I'll stick to the traditional points of contention, carbon nanotube RAM has weight issues, so deal with it in the appropriate fashion.

Edited January 17, 2013 by Tanis777

[Mara Lithaen]

I'll put up my post tomorrow when I get out of school.

[Poseida]

[quote name='Mara Lithaen' timestamp='1358479476' post='3078368']
I'll put up my post tomorrow when I get out of school.
[/quote]
I guess not.

[Mara Lithaen]

My apologies. I went and had lunch with my granddad - he came all the way to Ft. Rucker to bring me a sammich. Turned into a 5 hour thing. Just got out. Now I am hyper. Probably will have the post up in five minutes. May exceed four pages in length.

Edit: May be a bit longer, and may end up being edited into the post that got merged into the Assassination thread. I just came off my sugar high. Starting a new one.

Edited January 19, 2013 by Mara Lithaen

[Executive Minister]

Okay, with regards to the status of this war, just a few facts I want to set straight.


1) My offer to Cent is to allow him to retcon his bomber attack for a stand-off attack. That way his bombers would not be put in a situation where they'd be frankly raped. We stop arguing over whether or not they are invincible, at least for this war (I am sure others, including myself, would love to debate whether or not his aircraft should be allowed to be stealth even in these conditions). This argument can continue for as long as it takes, and any rulings or what have you can be implemented then. Right now, however, this discussion is essentially the only qualm my side has with the North African war besides JED's extreme lack of casualties (although I accepted that as merely the benchmark at which this war's occupants can expect).

Will Cent be editing his post for me to respond? Or can I just assume in my counter attack (with appropriate OOC annotations) that he tried to perform a mix of low-altitude CMs along with stand-off anti-radiation attacks?

2) If Cent decides he does not want this offer, then what exactly did you rule, Tanis? That his plane's were stealth but he can't use them too often because of economy? I'll need to be briefed on what you mean by this before I can respond.

3) I do not agree that Triyun can apply his commercial shipping ploy to his fleet while negating that same effect on my fleet. Triyun can say all he wants about his deployments - all I care about is his negation of the fog of war - especially when he seeks to clutter it up with worrying about Commercial shipping, something that I doubt has ever been applied to any other RPer in CNRP. He has not proven that, minus the imaging UAVs, he has a significant platform, system or tactic that could have so accurately determined where my fleet was while denying me the same chance to at least recognize the massive build up in the Indian - the most likely vector of attack once my boots hit Gloval's ground.

That debate will have to continue in this thread. Whether that means keeping Tanis as the moderator for this debate or finding a new one - I will not bow to a ruling made by the three current GMs on this issue, as common sense dictates that their neutrality would be placed in question - just as Triyun feels he needs to complain about Tanis' rulings now because of perceived biases he may or may not have. Argue all you want, but we both agreed on Tanis to enter this conflict neutral. Even if I humor you and give you the fact that Tanis is biased (I don't), Triyun, he only became 'biased' because of his findings. Don't ask someone to smell your feet and then get offended when they wrinkle their nose.

4) I have agreed to give the TSI their initial opening moves against African protectorates - this does not include Eritrea since Vince erroneously changed the label, it has always been a strict AU protectorate - in the Sulieman thread. Conforming to Tanis' ruling, I'm going to include the responses I made to your movements in Sulieman in the AU's round of responses (the round getting pushed forward by points 1 and 2) that address the non-issue theatres. It will be a simple cut-and-paste job. I'll be assuming the TSI's movements coincided with the round of posts I will be responding to.

If all is well, then a response to the non-offensive TSI posts will commence asap. Please post your agreement or disagreement with these facts here boys and girls. This is what I bring to the table. This is my compromise.

[Tanis777]

Well, Cent did agree to your offer in the GM Court thread EM, since it's a mutual agreement, I'll let you handle it in a response with the proper OOC. Consider it edited without the work behind it. The war needs to move forward, and since the offer was accepted then yes, that's what I'll agree upon. So that settles issue 1. If he was to bomb again at close range, more radar will have to go down.

For issue 2, I just see RAM as more maintenance downtime, which isn't an economic thing, but rather as an engineering consequence.

Issue 3, if Triyun is still insistent on the commercial waterways argument, I'll continue to counter with the neutral shipping vessels giving each side's positions away to kill the argument dead in it's tracks. If arguing a certain tactic, certain things should not be left out.

You know my thoughts on 4, so carry on.

Edited January 20, 2013 by Tanis777

[Executive Minister]

So i've submitted the first half of my response to the cleared portions of the war to Tanis for compliance with his rulings, let's get started talking about the Indian.

[Justinian the Mighty]

EM I would like to see you take some damage from my attack. Also claiming your response craft are 100% undetectable is silly. I'll also need detailed specs on how cheese is made before I'll even consider posting my response which I can assure you was written 3 weeks ago. Also I like turtles.

[Executive Minister]

EM I would like to see you take some damage from my attack.

No intelligence.

 

Also claiming your response craft are 100% undetectable is silly.

Not craft. Attack.

 

I'll also need detailed specs on how cheese is made before I'll even consider posting my response which I can assure you was written 3 weeks ago. Also I like turtles.

Google it. Autoadvance. Tortoises rule.

 

 

 

 

Okay, now that my Triyun-esque response is over I can respond normally.

 

For those aircraft that were foolish enough to launch attacks by
crossing over the border, they would be met with no mercy. With the
Russian Tu-160 bomber being nothing close to a stealth aircraft, Aeon
Combat Air Patrols of Air Superiority craft would have a field day.
Waiting for the bombers to pass the Red Sea, as indicated by allied
radars on the ground, the Aeon aircraft would launch long ranged air to
air missiles utilizing a mix of semi-active radar homing and inertial
navigation to close in on the aircraft before switching to a last ditch
terminal EO/IR seeking mode. Crashing in a top down configuration, the
stealthy attack would be impossible for the Russians to detect, and the
angle of attack of the missiles fired would minimize the chance of being
dazzled by chaff or flares.

 

I assume this is what you mean.

 

For the damage, Tanis said your side had no intelligence as to where my sensitive/mobile facilities were located. I lumped damages against stationary things like bridges, runways, hangars and other infrastructure together with your other allies.

 

As for my response craft, being 100% undetectable, you misunderstand me.  While indeed my aircraft would be extremely stealthy, and fired with as little emissions as possible by using allied sensors, I was referencing the missiles and the guidance they used as being undetectable.

 

The Tu-160, while having some RCS reduction techniques present in its construction - is in no way a stealth aircraft. Your bombers flew across the Red Sea into Sudan. As they approached land, they fired their missiles. Your aircraft would be receiving warnings on their radar warning receivers even before they crossed the Red Sea. The missiles I launched used those pings from my ground radar to either fly to your bombers via inertial navigation (the Tu-160's are at coordinates xyz travelling at whatever speed per hour - fly there) OR they simply flew after the reflections your bombers created as they got pinged, which is semi-active radar seeking. They then switched to EO/IR terminal seeking (image, heat seeking).

 

When I say that this attack would be impossible to detect, i mean to say that your bombers would have no other indication something was flying to crash into them and blow up besides the pings they already noticed before they crossed the Red Sea. My aircraft made no emissions your bombers could detect - they used the existing emissions your bombers detected and had to cope with in order to cross the Red Sea.

 

Also, cheese is made by taking milk and separating it into solid curds and liquid whey. You have to sour the milk to do this. Souring can be done by adding acids like vinegar, or using bacteria. They then drain the water, and can also heat it in the case of hard cheeses. You then preserve cheese with salt, and apply a number of techniques to the cheese depending on what you want. These can be things like stretching the cheese, washing it to make it mild, mix it or dehydrate it. Once that's done, you shape the curds into a mold or form, adding pressure to drive out moisture. You then leave the cheese to age for days to years. This may or may not include the introduction of more microscopic organisms depending on the cheese you want.

 

See you in three weeks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Voodoo Nova]

I'd like a response to my attacks as well.

[Markus Wilding]

Sorry for no response, been swamped with schoolwork and RL issues. I should have a post up responding to your attacks on my fleet soon, EM.

[Mara Lithaen]

I'd like a response to my attacks as well.

 

You've already got at least one.

[Executive Minister]

I'd like a response to my attacks as well.

 

I um. What attack exactly?

 

This is the only one i've seen in the Assassination thread, unless there's something i'm overlooking?

[JEDCJT]

I um. What attack exactly?

 

This is the only one i've seen in the Assassination thread, unless there's something i'm overlooking?

 

Yes, you overlooked this. That was in the Assassination thread as well.

[Centurius]

I also seem to be missing a response to my own attacks against African radar systems that were launched together with the German missiles.

[Executive Minister]

Okay, on that Cent and Voodoo. Voodoo, what exactly is long ranged in this case? I thought F-7's were fighters? Are you launching 8 ER-M-51's from each jet? 1,500 km again? I'm going to respond to your attack assuming that it is, but I really must ask how 8 missiles per jet is possible while I do that.

[Centurius]

Thanks, looking forward to the response.

 

Edit: Never mind, just saw you already did.

Edited February 1, 2013 by Centurius

[Executive Minister]

Still nothing with regards to the Indian ocean? Triyun isn't the only one that's taken part there. Anyone else wanna step up to help get that theatre rolling?

 

 

Also, i've contemplated creating a separate thread for small unit encounters (typically known as character based RP battles based on the war as a whole). This war has unfortunately commenced and been perpetuated with relatively little to no character-based RP. In the past I've mixed both the risk-style attacks with more personal RPs - see Hello Nod for an example. I've neglected to do that in this war for numerous reasons, one of which was transparency and to expedite the wars progression through conflict (Harr harr). If anyone is down for that, yes, including Gloval, then that would be a welcome sight. If we can't get major battle components running because of stoppages, we can at least squeeze more RP from the parts that have some progression (the Indian and bombardment against East Africa vs the much more smoother movements in Tunisia).

[Yawoo]

Still nothing with regards to the Indian ocean? Triyun isn't the only one that's taken part there. Anyone else wanna step up to help get that theatre rolling?

Perhaps I missed it in your most recent post, but you have yet to post a response to the Indian Ocean theater, because of disagreements, correct? If this is the case, it needs to be worked out between the two of you, otherwise it will undoubtedly be caught up in problems later down the road. 

[Executive Minister]

Perhaps I missed it in your most recent post, but you have yet to post a response to the Indian Ocean theater, because of disagreements, correct? If this is the case, it needs to be worked out between the two of you, otherwise it will undoubtedly be caught up in problems later down the road. 

 

You are correct. I was asking if there was anyone else that took part in the Indian willing to come 'back to the table' Triyun has refused to participate in. Even though it seems like neither party will budge, at least SOME communication is better than nothing.

[Executive Minister]

Guys?

[Triyun]

Quit complaining you delayed all through winter break, now people actually have shit to do IRL.