Shadow of a Bull Moose

[Monster]

The issue is, people flip flop on the "poaching" stuff frequently. When NSO recruited from neutral alliances, it almost went to war. With the SOS-NsO war, it was considered not a CB.

He said it's BMP. We're BM.

Edited April 30, 2012 by Roquentin

[Birdman]

congratz guys and good luck!

[Maximillian]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1335760046' post='2961009']He said it's BMP. We're BM.
[/quote]

I knew I would screw up somehow in that post.

[ccabal86]

[quote name='Maximillian' timestamp='1335759879' post='2961008']
Gentlemen, please! I can assure you our friends in Bull Moose had no ill intentions and are aware of the consequences of further actions. I think the almight IRON can find forgiveness in it's rusted heart to put this incident behind us, yes?
[/quote]

This would be a non-issue if it was a first offense, everyone makes mistakes. Unfortunately this is the second time we hear of vandelsand in the frame of one week. And that's just us, apparently others have had similar experiences as well. It's getting tiresome.

[vandelsand]

Scandal! This is a CLEAR violation of all rules of Planet Bob! All members of merging alliances must join, no matter how you feel.

This sub-40 nation alliance is threatening our entire existence with their 3827 average nation strength. We should take them down immediately!

We don't have enough nations in our alliance! We couldn't spare even one as we continuously push the envelope of our measly 400 members.

It is a conspiracy of the greatest proportions and goes as deep as the very soul of CyberNations itself. Quickly! Join arms to squash them!

[MCRABT]

[quote name='vandelsand' timestamp='1335729685' post='2960839']
I agree that when I asked VoC if they wanted to join us I was wrong. Many people talked to me about this issue. It was resolved, I received a very stern slap on the wrist. Why bring this up now with such public humiliation, and totally outside of the context of this topic? Poor form.
[/quote]

So, since we spoke yesterday I have been doing the rounds within our halls and I can find no evidence of the VoC issue being addressed with an IRON official. I can see you spoke with Blade 619 about your invitation to McDaniel on the 21st but the VoC message was sent on the 24th and as far as I can see you have not spoken with anyone about it as you have claimed here and in query. Perhaps you could clarify for me so we can bring the matter to satisfactory conclusion. I'd be more inclined to believe this was a genuine mistake if you have not been lying to us throughout.

Edit:

[quote name='vandelsand' timestamp='1335787394' post='2961103']
Scandal! This is a CLEAR violation of all rules of Planet Bob! All members of merging alliances must join, no matter how you feel.

This sub-40 nation alliance is threatening our entire existence with their 3827 average nation strength. We should take them down immediately!

We don't have enough nations in our alliance! We couldn't spare even one as we continuously push the envelope of our measly 400 members.

It is a conspiracy of the greatest proportions and goes as deep as the very soul of CyberNations itself. Quickly! Join arms to squash them!
[/quote]

Well this certainly isn't doing you any favours whatsoever.

Edited April 30, 2012 by MCRABT

[vandelsand]

[quote name='MCRABT' timestamp='1335787448' post='2961104']
So, since we spoke yesterday I have been doing the rounds within our halls and I can find no evidence of the VoC issue being addressed with an IRON official. I can see you spoke with Blade 619 about your invitation to McDaniel on the 21st but the VoC message was sent on the 24th and as far as I can see you have not spoken with anyone about it as you have claimed here and in query. Perhaps you could clarify for me so we can bring the matter to satisfactory conclusion. I'd be more inclined to believe this was a genuine mistake if you have not been lying to us throughout.
[/quote]

It is pretty simple. I didn't know that all of the members of VoC wanted to join IRON. I was unaware that it was an attack on IRON to ask them if they wanted to join my alliance.

This is tiresome and I am truly sorry. Can we please end this matter?

Edited April 30, 2012 by vandelsand

[Icewolf]

[quote name='vandelsand' timestamp='1335787394' post='2961103']
Scandal! This is a CLEAR violation of all rules of Planet Bob! All members of merging alliances must join, no matter how you feel.

This sub-40 nation alliance is threatening our entire existence with their 3827 average nation strength. We should take them down immediately!

We don't have enough nations in our alliance! We couldn't spare even one as we continuously push the envelope of our measly 400 members.

It is a conspiracy of the greatest proportions and goes as deep as the very soul of CyberNations itself. Quickly! Join arms to squash them!
[/quote]
Either you already accepted the slap on the wrist, or you saw nothing wrong with what you did. You cannot play both tunes at the same time.

[vandelsand]

[quote name='Icewolf' timestamp='1335788105' post='2961108']
Either you already accepted the slap on the wrist, or you saw nothing wrong with what you did. You cannot play both tunes at the same time.
[/quote]

This man is right. I cannot have two independent thoughts about two different situations. Never.

I asked McDaniel why he joined IRON. They told me not to bother their applicants/members.
I asked VoC's members if they wanted to join Bull Moose instead of IRON. I was unaware it was against the rules to ask members of a disbanded and merging alliance if they were looking for something else.

Two separate situations. Two separate thoughts.

[u][b]The point is[/b][/u]: This was in no way meant to be any form of affront against IRON. I have nothing against IRON. I do not wish to have a quarrel with IRON. You may feel it was an affront because you can only see it from one perspective. If you could only take a step back.

Edited April 30, 2012 by vandelsand

[Icewolf]

[quote name='vandelsand' timestamp='1335789500' post='2961112']
This man is right. I cannot have two independent thoughts about two different situations. Never.

I asked McDaniel why he joined IRON. They told me not to bother their applicants/members.
I asked VoC's members if they wanted to join Bull Moose instead of IRON. I was unaware it was against the rules to ask members of a disbanded and merging alliance if they were looking for something else.

Two separate situations. Two separate thoughts.

[u][b]The point is[/b][/u]: This was in no way meant to be any form of affront against IRON. I have nothing against IRON. I do not wish to have a quarrel with IRON. You may feel it was an affront because you can only see it from one perspective. If you could only take a step back.
[/quote]
Earlier you insisted you had spoken about both incidents to IRON.

Then you insisted that there was nothing wrong in what you had done.

Now you are accepting that both are wrong and that you are sorry.

This does not change the fact that you claimed to have spoken to IRON when it appears you had not.
Secondly, your message to McDaniel did contain an offer to join Bull Moose. If you want to be contrite, stop playing down what you did.
Thirdly, you have tried to play a victim card here, and claimed IRON was harassing you over something that was already settled, when your following actions show that you did not regard it as such. How is this not an afront to IRON?

Fourthly, taking the step back and looking at the entire incident, did it not occur to you that after one run in with IRON, that you might want to be a bit more careful? A sort of "I just stepped on IRON's toes once, lets be extra careful not to step on them again?" Especially as you apparently foollowed your rebuff from IRON with run ins with other alliances? Even if you though what you were doing was ok (it wasn't) surely common politeness should dictate that you completely avoid any potential grey area with IRON after we had just let you off the hook for crossing into a definitely black area?

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='Icewolf' timestamp='1335788105' post='2961108']
Either you already accepted the slap on the wrist, or you saw nothing wrong with what you did. You cannot play both tunes at the same time.
[/quote]
Don't be stupid! Of course he can accept your whiny slap on the wrist regardless of whether or not IRON is being a bunch of babies about this; the two aren't mutually exclusive at all. Watching IRON throw a fit and threaten a micro about some spam to a disbanded AA is absolutely ridiculous.

Edited April 30, 2012 by Schattenmann

[Biff Webster]

Has anyone taken BMP up on their offer?

[MCRABT]

[quote name='vandelsand' timestamp='1335787753' post='2961106']
It is pretty simple. I didn't know that all of the members of VoC wanted to join IRON. I was unaware that it was an attack on IRON to ask them if they wanted to join my alliance.

This is tiresome and I am truly sorry. Can we please end this matter?
[/quote]

I very much would like to bring the matter to a close. Can you please confirm yes or no did you speak to an IRON official about the VoC message as you have claimed? If so who? This isn't difficult.

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1335791131' post='2961121']
Don't be stupid! Of course he can accept your whiny slap on the wrist regardless of whether or not IRON is being a bunch of babies about this; the two aren't mutually exclusive at all. Watching IRON throw a fit and threaten a micro about some spam to a disbanded AA is absolutely ridiculous.
[/quote]

Come on now that chip on your shoulder from when we were in Continuum is rather old. We are as a matter of course both patient and understanding when it comes to new alliances. Moreover our diplomacy is hardly aggressive in nature, that does not mean we are going to tolerate deceit and repeat offences without some form of consequence. This matter would have been cleared up yesterday if this gentleman did not suffer from selective amnesia. He's making a mountain out of an ant hill.

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='MCRABT' timestamp='1335794124' post='2961134']
Come on now that chip on your shoulder from when we were in Continuum is rather old. We are as a matter of course both patient and understanding when it comes to new alliances. Moreover our diplomacy is hardly aggressive in nature, that does not mean we are going to tolerate deceit and repeat offences without some form of consequence. This matter would have been cleared up yesterday if this gentleman did not suffer from selective amnesia. He's making a mountain out of an ant hill.
[/quote]
Ahhhahaha, what chip? I had quite a lot of fun running circles around Continuum, posting screenshots from the highest chambers of your forum, and took great pleasure in watching Karma turn you big, bad tough guys into the Coalition of Cowards and put your name to surrender. You stand reminded, McRabt, that you are speaking to the first alliance leader to sign a post-Karma treaty with NPO. It's all out of my system, but I see now it is you that bears the psychic scars of our glorious triumph.
But, there, there, if you will not bring up your lowest low, you will find that no one else does, since it has no bearing on this current situation nor on IRON's silly, silly obsession with this insignificant misstep.

Edited April 30, 2012 by Schattenmann

[MCRABT]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1335795039' post='2961139']
Ahhhahaha, what chip? I had quite a lot of fun running circles around Continuum, posting screenshots from the highest chambers of your forum, and took great pleasure in watching Karma turn you big, bad tough guys into the Coalition of Cowards and put your name to surrender. You stand reminded, McRabt, that you are speaking to the first alliance leader to sign a post-Karma treaty with NPO. It's all out of my system, but I see now it is you that bears the psychic scars of our glorious triumph.
But, there, there, if you will not bring up your lowest low, you will find that no one else does, since it has no bearing on this current situation nor on IRON's silly, silly obsession with this insignificant misstep.
[/quote]

OK then

[vandelsand]

[quote name='MCRABT' timestamp='1335794124' post='2961134']
I very much would like to bring the matter to a close. Can you please confirm yes or no did you speak to an IRON official about the VoC message as you have claimed? If so who? This isn't difficult.

...Moreover our diplomacy is hardly aggressive in nature, that does not mean we are going to tolerate deceit and repeat offences without some form of consequence. This matter would have been cleared up yesterday if this gentleman did not suffer from selective amnesia. He's making a mountain out of an ant hill.
[/quote]

My second message after he said why he joined IRON was: if you ever find yourself wanting something else please let me know.

I cannot confirm that I spoke to anyone in VoC. It isn't difficult. But when a small alliance makes a mistake and a giant alliance towers over it it become difficult to discern what issue you are talking about. You're simply running this over and over into the ground. What action would you like to take? What do you have in mind? Wish to pummel our great 3800 average ns into the ground? This is absolutely rediculous. Why can't you just forget this whole thing as you claim my selective amnesia has?

This is definietly not aggressive, definitely not. Do what you will, but stop being bullying jerks about this. I admit what I did. I admit I tried to cover it up because I knew you would have a proverbial cow. Either move on or do your worst. I'm tired of bickering.

Don't forget to tell all your allies to team up against me too, cause this isn't rediculous enough as it is.

[Icewolf]

If you tried to cover things up that means you know what you did was wrong.

I think we are done here.

To The Shadow Company...did he tell you what he was up to before he signed the treaty with you? If he didn't mention the "I'm going to get caught lying to IRON in full view of the OWF" thats probably a violation of the good faith that generally follows defense treaties.

Edited April 30, 2012 by Icewolf

[MCRABT]

[quote name='vandelsand' timestamp='1335795774' post='2961143']
My second message after he said why he joined IRON was: if you ever find yourself wanting something else please let me know.

I cannot confirm that I spoke to anyone in VoC. It isn't difficult. But when a small alliance makes a mistake and a giant alliance towers over it it become difficult to discern what issue you are talking about. You're simply running this over and over into the ground. What action would you like to take? What do you have in mind? Wish to pummel our great 3800 average ns into the ground? This is absolutely rediculous. Why can't you just forget this whole thing as you claim my selective amnesia has?

This is definietly not aggressive, definitely not. Do what you will, but stop being bullying jerks about this. I admit what I did. I admit I tried to cover it up because I knew you would have a proverbial cow. Either move on or do your worst. I'm tired of bickering.

Don't forget to tell all your allies to team up against me too, cause this isn't rediculous enough as it is.
[/quote]

Apology accepted. Three strikes your out. Don't do it again. Congratulations on your treaty by the way.

[vandelsand]

[quote name='Icewolf' timestamp='1335796312' post='2961146']
To The Shadow Accord...did he tell you what he was up to before he signed the treaty with you? If he didn't mention the "I'm going to get caught lying to IRON in full view of the OWF" thats probably a violation of the good faith that generally follows defense treaties.
[/quote]

Its not the Shadow Accord, but rather the Shadow Company. A small 5 man alliance.

[Wu Tang Clan]

[quote name='vandelsand' timestamp='1335795774' post='2961143']
My second message after he said why he joined IRON was: if you ever find yourself wanting something else please let me know.

I cannot confirm that I spoke to anyone in VoC. It isn't difficult. But when a small alliance makes a mistake and a giant alliance towers over it it become difficult to discern what issue you are talking about. You're simply running this over and over into the ground. What action would you like to take? What do you have in mind? Wish to pummel our great 3800 average ns into the ground? This is absolutely rediculous. Why can't you just forget this whole thing as you claim my selective amnesia has?

This is definietly not aggressive, definitely not. Do what you will, but stop being bullying jerks about this. I admit what I did. I admit I tried to cover it up because I knew you would have a proverbial cow. Either move on or do your worst. I'm tired of bickering.

Don't forget to tell all your allies to team up against me too, cause this isn't rediculous enough as it is.
[/quote]

This is hardly helpful to your situation. You're lucky IRON is as patient and understanding as they are.

[vandelsand]

[quote name='MCRABT' timestamp='1335796599' post='2961147']
Apology accepted. Three strikes your out. Don't do it again. Congratulations on your treaty by the way.
[/quote]

This was quite unexpected and very honorable. I am sorry for all of the trouble. I hope we can work together in the future.

-vandelsand

[MCRABT]

[quote name='vandelsand' timestamp='1335797281' post='2961152']
This was quite unexpected and very honorable. I am sorry for all of the trouble. I hope we can work together in the future.

-vandelsand
[/quote]

A lot to learn you still have, I suggest you talk with your protector and listen to any advice they may have on how to avoid incidents like this in future.

[ccabal86]

[quote name='vandelsand' timestamp='1335797281' post='2961152']
This was quite unexpected and very honorable. I am sorry for all of the trouble. I hope we can work together in the future.

-vandelsand
[/quote]

You will find that with an honest and open approach, it really isn't hard to get along with us.

Best of luck to you in the future, and congrats on your treaty

[vandelsand]

[quote name='MCRABT' timestamp='1335797866' post='2961154']
A lot to learn you still have, I suggest you talk with your protector and listen to any advice they may have on how to avoid incidents like this in future.
[/quote]

Your actions are most admirable. I will be sure to take your advice and speak closely with my protectors.

[Numendil]

Congratulations on your new ODP!

Edited April 30, 2012 by Numendil