Enter Bal Masqué

[Johnny Apocalypse]

Which of your treaties carry over, if any?

Edited April 22, 2012 by Johnny Apocalypse

[Monster]

[quote name='Johnny Apocalypse' timestamp='1335125173' post='2957271']
Which of your treaties carry over, if any?
[/quote]

The ones held by Paraguas. It makes a lot of sense, since I'm the leader of this alliance and signed both of them. I wasn't expecting anything from SOS to carry over immediately, and the NsO PIAT thing was a surprise. Given the flip flopping by NsO and generally !@#$%* behavior by NsO on the subject, I should have said "$%&@ the PIAT" to begin with like I was expected to do since the only reason I even considered it carried over was that it was brought up to me that I was expected to not want to carry it over because of GATO. Oh, and I messed up the wiki before and it was made out to just to be a formality(the vote), so I didn't bother. Hope that explains it. If I had been told to go $%&@ myself to start with, you'd have never seen it to begin with. Directness > Passive aggression


[quote name='ShouAS' timestamp='1335123203' post='2957252']
hmm afraid? no Roq made it clear in our upgrade with GATO that he didn't like us as an alliance.
[/quote]

I don't really see how that's the case, I might have made it clear I don't like GATO, but I don't remember trashing NsO. Oh well. It was only a PIAT and with no real plans to do much about it in the future. I didn't expect it to be carried over and it was only listed because Elrich told me that's how he saw it. I was afk when you notified me of the final decision.

On the other hand, at least you and Saniiro have made it clear that you don't like *me*, which is fine, because I'm not fond of either of you.

Here's a different analogous case:

I like Invicta, but I didn't expect or want the protectorate to be carried over. It was never discussed as being carried over, and I had no expectations of it being carried over in that form.

If I have to not attack PIAT partner's allies or else risk losing PIAT partners, I'd rather not have PIAT partners at all, since a lot of MDoAP partners of alliances publicly trash allies of their allies regularly. This oversensitivity that you people have to allies being trashed is lol

in conclusion: I still think GATO is !@#$

Edited April 22, 2012 by Roquentin

[Lanore]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1335125966' post='2957278']
in conclusion: I still think GATO is !@#$
[/quote]

You know it's funny I managed to keep myself on a leash about trashing this thread and wishing you luck.

[IMG]http://i1064.photobucket.com/albums/u367/Lanore2012/Rarity/jeeze.png[/IMG]

[Monster]

[quote name='Lanore' timestamp='1335130957' post='2957319']
You know it's funny I managed to keep myself on a leash about trashing this thread and wishing you luck.

[IMG]http://i1064.photobucket.com/albums/u367/Lanore2012/Rarity/jeeze.png[/IMG]
[/quote]

Well, the thing is, I maintained a similar stance until ShouAS brought up that you are not allowed to have negative opinions of NsO treaty partners if you want to maintain a PIAT. Man, I really wish those kind of standards applied universally.

If it did, my work would already be done, lol.


Cheyenne: I don't really get what Deinos' problem is. You, gloin, fyfe, etc. Not sure. I guess it's because I'm critical of the battered MK wife in Umbrella that you so adore.



[quote name='Cairna' timestamp='1335124923' post='2957270']
Really?

Can you come run my alliance? I would make an excellent puppet.
[/quote]

You can merge in!

Edited April 22, 2012 by Roquentin

[Lanore]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1335131171' post='2957323']
Well, the thing is, I maintained a similar stance until ShouAS brought up that you are not allowed to have negative opinions of NsO treaty partners if you want to maintain a PIAT. Man, I really wish those kind of standards applied universally.
[/quote]

I don't think it's really trashing. I think it has more to do with the fact that you have sworn our destruction by proxy, claimed that GATO and her allies were a "glass parkinglot" and that you intended to brush us off like dandruff on your shoulder (paraphrasing), amongst other grievances. If this were about you ragging on our FA choices, war ability, internal organization, ect, we'd simply blow you off. We get tons of people like that.

Tell the truth GATO would have been happy to ignore you and your anti DH crusade but you keep managing to piss in our cheerios.

So no, it isn't that you can't express negative opinions about an ally's allies. I'm going to guess that it has more to do with giving a PIAT to some fringe loony who is actively plotting the destruction of your friends and allies being a bad idea and one legitimization too many. At least that's my guess. NsO is fully capable of speaking for itself.

[Monster]

[quote name='Lanore' timestamp='1335132465' post='2957332']
I don't think it's really trashing. I think it has more to do with the fact that you have sworn our destruction by proxy, claimed that GATO and her allies were a "glass parkinglot" and that you intended to brush us off like dandruff on your shoulder (paraphrasing), amongst other grievances. If this were about you ragging on our FA choices, war ability, internal organization, ect, we'd simply blow you off. We get tons of people like that.

Tell the truth GATO would have been happy to ignore you and your anti DH crusade but you keep managing to piss in our cheerios.

So no, it isn't that you can't express negative opinions about an ally's allies. I'm going to guess that it has more to do with giving a PIAT to some fringe loony who is actively plotting the destruction of your friends and allies being a bad idea and one legitimization too many. At least that's my guess. NsO is fully capable of speaking for itself.
[/quote]
Your destruction by proxy is something that can't be avoided due to your participation in C&G. Others have sworn destruction of their allies of allies and for some reason they still retain legitimacy, I have no idea why.

GATO's backing of DH by proxy is the reason I keep pissing in your cheerios. I really dislike ODN at this point as well, for the same reason, tbh, so you're not special.

Oh man, the insanity accusations again. Legitimization is a serious concern.

Edited April 22, 2012 by Roquentin

[Laslo Kenez]

"Hey, we're forming a new alliance (it's not like the old alliance you knew) but we'd like to carry over our treaty! However, your other treaty partner must die."

What a spectacular incentive, diplomacy at it's finest.

Edited April 22, 2012 by Laslo Kenez

[Lanore]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1335132761' post='2957338']
Oh man, the insanity accusations again. Legitimization is a serious concern.
[/quote]

The sanity of your political views and how mainstream they are are clearly portrayed by your impressive rallying call to arms and the sheer numbers and weight that have joined your cause. The number of honorable and prestigious alliances merging into your flagship alliance for this cause or MDoAPing you in support of your endeavors show the weight of your words and impact of your message.

CnG is quivering in fear of you and we are literally contemplating dropping some of the blocs oldest and most politically relevant ties in order to avoid the coming karma they have earned against them.

We're trying but being anything more than a puppet is just so hard. We're terrified of how we will make it with a mind of our own. Without guidance from outside of our bloc, from the political masterminds we have become so dependent on, we are afraid we won't survive, yet we are too afraid to disband.

Please have mercy upon our inaction. We're just so afraid of a life without our masters.

Edited April 22, 2012 by Lanore

[Monster]

[quote name='Laslo Kenez' timestamp='1335133183' post='2957342']
"Hey, we're forming a new alliance (it's not like the old alliance you knew) but we'd like to carry over our treaty! However, your other treaty partner must die."

What a spectacular incentive, diplomacy at it's finest.
[/quote]

Except I already said it wasn't my idea to carry it over! Hope this helps.

Am I going to have to recap events again?

1. I don't expect anything from SOS to carry over.

2. Elrich says he thinks merged alliance treaties carry over and thinks I was going to cancel it because of GATO.

3. NsO people tell me they're voting on it as a formality. It is never conveyed that the intent is to cancel. If it had been, it would have reverted back to status quo ante.

4. NsO people who don't like me try to score points by trying to make me look bad when I hadn't been informed of the outcome by Elrich until after they posted in this thread.

5. SOS gov members state they did not want to carry it over to begin with and just rolled with it because I did.


[quote name='Lanore' timestamp='1335133217' post='2957343']
The sanity of your political views and how mainstream they are are clearly portrayed by your impressive rallying call to arms and the sheer numbers and weight that have joined your cause. The number of honorable and prestigious alliances merging into your flagship alliance for this cause or MDoAPing you in support of your endeavors show the weight of your words and impact of your message.

CnG is quivering in fear of you and we are literally contemplating dropping some of the blocs oldest and most politically relevant ties in order to avoid the coming karma they have earned against them.

We're trying but being anything more than a puppet is just so hard. We're terrified of how we will make it with a mind of our own. Without guidance from outside of our bloc, from the political masterminds we have become so dependent on, we are afraid we won't survive, yet we are too afraid to disband.

Please have mercy upon our inaction. We're just so afraid of a life without our masters.
[/quote]


I mean, if that was actually my aim, you might be right. I've never expected it. Hell, the idea you're putting in my head that I want everyone to merge in is the best part. Way to strawman my positions in general.

Obviously some people don't want to MDoAP because they see it as a liability, which comes with the territory unfortunately enough. A lot of people didn't want to be associated with Vox and MK was once a pariah alliance itself.

The issue is, you are worried about me being legitimized and you said as much.

Edited April 22, 2012 by Roquentin

[Manis B]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1335133476' post='2957348']


The issue is, you are worried about me being legitimized and you said as much.
[/quote]

Its too late. You already believe yourself.

[Monster]

[quote name='Manis B' timestamp='1335135820' post='2957380']
Its too late. You already believe yourself.
[/quote]

What is there that I have convince myself into believing? Of course, some people don't want me to get treaties if they can help it. They really don't. It wouldn't be the first time something was blocked. "one legitimization too many"

At the end of the day, if I can get treaties, it's very bad news for you.

[Manis B]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1335135987' post='2957382']
What is there that I have convince myself into believing? Of course, some people don't want me to get treaties if they can help it. They really don't. It wouldn't be the first time something was blocked. "one legitimization too many"

At the end of the day, if I can get treaties, it's very bad news for you.
[/quote]


You believe the nonsense you spew out onto the owf. Stop trying to corrupt the children.

And stop talking about GATO. We didnt care about you before, and we certainly dont care about you now. Guess what, SOS was a puppet of GOONS. You've been paradox'd.

[Utracia]

If this will bring life back into my former alliance I'm all for this merger. Hope SOS finds success in its new form. I hope you will learn to be more diplomatic though and learn from previous mistakes.

[Ravnica]

[quote name='Emperor Whimsical' timestamp='1335042452' post='2956753']
Roq's plan of quitely absorbing micros has begun.
[/quote]

Roquentin is becoming the Electronic Arts of Cybernations. This pleases me.

Edited April 22, 2012 by Ravnica

[Lanore]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1335133476' post='2957348']
The issue is, you are worried about me being legitimized and you said as much.
[/quote]

This is essentially true but you're a bit off the mark. I could care less about international legitimization, you'll hang yourself on that one on your own.

Anyways I'm done now, because this really isn't the place for this.

[Monster]

[quote name='Ravnica' timestamp='1335136322' post='2957387']
Roquentin is becoming the Electronic Arts of Cybernations. This pleases me.
[/quote]

Thanks.


Also Jatayu: Interestingly positive comment. I'm honestly surprised the majority of detractors haven't been from MK.

[Ravnica]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1335136670' post='2957393']
Thanks.


Also Jatayu: Interestingly positive comment. I'm honestly surprised the majority of detractors haven't been from MK.
[/quote]

In this time of micro-alliances and stagnating old farts of alliances, it's actually pleasant to watch something like this happen.

[Manis B]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1335136670' post='2957393']
Thanks.


Also Jatayu: Interestingly positive comment. I'm honestly surprised the majority of detractors haven't been from MK.
[/quote]

said the puppet to his master.

[Monster]

[quote name='Manis B' timestamp='1335136849' post='2957397']
said the puppet to his master.
[/quote]

That's an interesting theory and some people have advanced it. I think I managed to convince Alterego that I wasn't some sort of ultra double agent though.

[Ravnica]

[quote name='Manis B' timestamp='1335136849' post='2957397']
said the puppet to his master.
[/quote]

...You do realize I'm just a Bob-Omb level scrub in MK with no .gov ties?

Quit being paranoid and thinking everything is our fault, thanks.

[Monster]

I guess such claims can stem from the fact that people think I'm hurting the overall anti-MK cause, but rather at worst, I haven't affected it. For instance, a major concern for DH was an Mjolnir/XX alignment post-war. That never came to fruition. Ultimately, I have no bearing other than what I can recommend in terms of moves for people to make. Either they want to make the right moves or they don't.

[Manis B]

[quote name='Ravnica' timestamp='1335137114' post='2957400']
...You do realize I'm just a Bob-Omb level scrub in MK with no .gov ties?

Quit being paranoid and thinking everything is our fault, thanks.
[/quote]

doesnt make quentin any less your puppet. I SAW THE SIGN AND IT OPENED UP MY EYES

[Monster]

Like I said, nothing I have to say should make you not be intelligent FA-wise regardless. If you're too busy fuming over Xiphosis still and don't want to treaty alliances tied to his for a greater goal, that's your problem, and not mine.

[Akama]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1335137736' post='2957406']
Like I said, nothing I have to say should make you not be intelligent FA-wise regardless. If you're too busy fuming over Xiphosis still and don't want to treaty alliances tied to his for a greater goal, that's your problem, and not mine.
[/quote]

Why would he be fuming over Xiph? All Xiph did to GATO was give them white peace a couple wars ago.

[Monster]

[quote name='Akama' timestamp='1335139129' post='2957417']
Why would he be fuming over Xiph? All Xiph did to GATO was give them white peace a couple wars ago.
[/quote]

General statement. I mean, a lot of people won't touch SF as of now because of past grievances. Stuff like that. It's a general thing. "alliance x harbors grudge with y ally of z, therefore they cut their noses to spite their face." It applies to anyone who isn't on DH's good side or doesn't like raiding or doesn't like GATO or doesn't like TLR who won't touch SF with a ten foot pole.


Divided opposition can be picked off piecemeal.

Edited April 23, 2012 by Roquentin