New Rule Request

[PresidentDavid]

I would like to propose a rule to well... Outlaw a rule? I don't know how to put it but you will understand! This is what I propose (it is pretty simple may I mind you)

[size="5"][u][i][b]"A player may not attack or harm another player in any way without the consent of the defending party." [/b][/i][/u][/size]

Sounds like enough for me.

Maybe I am a wimp, but honestly, every time someone attacks me I do not want to be attacked... I mean... Does that make me a bad person? The only people that do attack me are the ones who are three times my size so I can not win the war - plus if they are anything like "the powers at be" that currently exist, they are able to prepare a wall of loltech which I can not replicate since I do not care one bit about technology - that is not why I RP. I RP just to RP... Not to attack other innocent nations or show how much of a bad &$^ I am by conquering nations who are half my size... It's kind of like the big-tuff, Senior quarter back beating up a skinny freshman girl.

For me, at least, getting attacked by a nation without my permission ruins RP for me... I know some of you, who are larger then me, disagree with me - however I also know that I would have a lot more fun with RP if I didn't have to worry about being invaded. Instead of posting stupid (yes I called them stupid) military stats and tech stats, I could be writing a story. But no - ever since Sarah and the horde invaded the western hemisphere and screwed everyone who isn't in the Horde; I, and other nations, have been waiting for the day when they would be attacked. I would rather RP a story out and let other people interact then be RPing my story and have to stop while Markus or Triyun or TBM (count this as an insult?) or anyone else invades me and tries to execute my main characters just for the giggles of it - or at least try to kill them or destroy everything I have achieved just to get under my skin.

Now some of you may be thinking "PD, Get out my level I don't want to read this" well guess what - you are still reading so obviously you either slightly agree with what I have to say or are so enraged that you want to read every word I type so you can tell me how I am wrong. Here is the cool part for me...

I
don't
care

When I was the USI it was a nation for me that was entirely RP. I loved it there, but then TBM and Voodoo kicked me out after Vektor chickened out. I never read what they did to the Island because I knew it would frustrate me. I considered quitting but came to Texas instead. I was happy to come to Texas... then Sarah attacks. I don't blame Sarah for attacking, because she thought she would be spicing up RP by doing so, but honestly I don't think anyone in North America (except for the unspoken one who occupies New York) enjoyed Sarah being here unless she was on their side - but even that defeated the purpose of what she was trying to do which was letting everyone have fun.

Now... I think I have made my point. Vote on if you want to keep the status quo and let anyone declare war on anyone, or if you want to make it a RP friendly community and have people get permission before declaring war... I don't want a bunch of comments saying "PD everything you just said is wrong and here is why" and I can guess the first person who will say that... Though I ask that the rest of you who have progressed past the stage of neanderthals to please consider leaving a helpful comment to help our community progress.

Thanks.

P.S. If you vote, give your reason for voting! Don't be shy! I just gave my reason.

Edited February 6, 2012 by PresidentDavid

[HHAYD]

And what about players that consistently delay, delay, delay, in hopes of avoiding a steamroll? I'd admit, I did the same thing when I wasn't sure how to get out of a hole that I dug myself into, and I strongly regretted it.

Although I agree that steamrolling someone without an OOC warning is impolite, the proposed rule would be open to abuses,

Edited February 6, 2012 by HHAYD

[PresidentDavid]

[quote name='HHAYD' timestamp='1328571241' post='2915652']
And what about players that consistently delay, delay, delay, in hopes of avoiding a steamroll? I'd admit, I did the same thing when I wasn't sure how to get out of a hole that I dug myself into, and I strongly regretted it.

Although I agree that steamrolling someone without an OOC warning is impolite, the proposed rule would be open to abuses,
[/quote]

The proposed rule says that Texas can not declare war on the Dixie Confederacy unless you say it is okay. So The Dixie Confederacy can not be steamrolled unless you say it is okay.

[Kankou]

Neutral. However, it should be noted that no sane country would go about annexation as much territories as in CNRP, without having massive consequences. Of course, realism is thrown out the window when convenient.

[Triyun]

Damn right you should. If HAE or Tianxia or some other huge Empire exists, it cannot have the option of getting everything it wants and then going into peace mode. To be honest this needs to stop. People need to interact with the whole community, they need to stop complaining. That includes but certainly should not be limited to fighting. If you need help designing a military or want to know how to fight PM me, I'll help you out. I'm tired of this pussifying of the community. If you don't want to do plain vanilla military war, you should PM the person and work out character RP for war.

I didn't want to be attacked by Lavo and Mercy when I DoEed, Sarah didn't want to be nuked by Vektor for speaking truth to power, we all got over it. So can you.

[PresidentDavid]

[quote name='Triyun' timestamp='1328571562' post='2915661']
Damn right you should. If HAE or Tianxia or some other huge Empire exists, it cannot have the option of getting everything it wants and then going into peace mode. To be honest this needs to stop. People need to interact with the whole community, they need to stop complaining. That includes but certainly should not be limited to fighting. If you need help designing a military or want to know how to fight PM me, I'll help you out. I'm tired of this pussifying of the community. If you don't want to do plain vanilla military war, you should PM the person and work out character RP for war.

I didn't want to be attacked by Lavo and Mercy when I DoEed, Sarah didn't want to be nuked by Vektor for speaking truth to power, we all got over it. So can you.
[/quote]

[quote]I don't want a bunch of comments saying "PD everything you just said is wrong and here is why" and I can guess the first person who will say that... Though I ask that the rest of you who have progressed past the stage of neanderthals to please consider leaving a helpful comment to help our community progress.[/quote]

Here is the thing Triyun, I do not want to fight wars at all. That is not the part of it I want. Maybe a majority of the community disagrees with me, but I do not like war. I do not want to be invaded because I do not want to RP a war... It's not that I like to RP wars but I'm just not good at it - it's just that I do not like RPing war period. I would love to interact with you or cent or Sarah, but I don't want it on the battlefield where y'all will win and raise a communist flag over Austin. No. I want it to be character RP.

Though you are the most powerful player in CNRP so I understand why you would be against this rule..... Don't we have a rule that says someone can not be [i]forced[/i] to RP things?

Again though that is my humble opinion.

[Sarah Tintagyl]

Another reason why I say get rid of the map.

[PresidentDavid]

[quote name='Triyun' timestamp='1328571562' post='2915661']
Damn right you should. If HAE or Tianxia or some other huge Empire exists, it cannot have the option of getting everything it wants and then going into peace mode. To be honest this needs to stop. People need to interact with the whole community, they need to stop complaining. That includes but certainly should not be limited to fighting. If you need help designing a military or want to know how to fight PM me, I'll help you out. I'm tired of this pussifying of the community. If you don't want to do plain vanilla military war, you should PM the person and work out character RP for war.

I didn't want to be attacked by Lavo and Mercy when I DoEed, Sarah didn't want to be nuked by Vektor for speaking truth to power, we all got over it. So can you.
[/quote]

Also I understand y'all didn't want to be attacked or nuked. So let's make a rule against doing so. Out of all due respect, no one in CNRP has any more respect from me for getting rolled even when they didn't want to... I judge everyone by how they ICly justify things and their ability to RP.

[Universal Darkness]

[quote]"A player may not attack or harm another player in any way without the consent of the defending party." [/quote]

Is that not practically the same as "peace mode"?
It has it's ups and downs, but will protect you from war!
With "war mode" you have more you can do, but you'll have to run the risk of going to war.

[quote] I don't care[/quote]

I'm fairly sure you do care..
Without others' opinions, you'll never be able to get this rule changed.
Also, you should always be taking others' opinions into consideration.

I am voting against changing the rule!
I think it is reasonable and well understood.
By putting your nation into "war mode" you are accepting the risks of your nation's general well-being!

[PresidentDavid]

[quote name='Universal Darkness' timestamp='1328572048' post='2915669']
Is that not practically the same as "peace mode"?
It has it's ups and downs, but will protect you from war!
With "war mode" you have more you can do, but you'll have to run the risk of going to war.



I'm fairly sure you do care..
Without others' opinions, you'll never be able to get this rule changed.
Also, you should always be taking others' opinions into consideration.

I am voting against changing the rule!
I think it is reasonable and well understood.
By putting your nation into "war mode" you are accepting the risks of your nation's general well-being!
[/quote]

This isn't about the game Cybernations. This is about the forum game, CyberNations Role Play. Sorry if you got confused partner.

[Sarah Tintagyl]

[quote name='PresidentDavid' timestamp='1328572150' post='2915672']
This isn't about the game Cybernations. This is about the forum game, CyberNations Role Play. Sorry if you got confused partner.
[/quote]

No, he makes a good point. If you don't ever want to leave peace mode, then you shouldn't be allowed on the map.

[Universal Darkness]

Message deleted.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Universal Darkness

[PresidentDavid]

[quote name='Sarah Tintagyl' timestamp='1328572270' post='2915676']
No, he makes a good point. If you don't ever want to leave peace mode, then you shouldn't be allowed on the map.
[/quote]

Get rid of the map?

[Kevin Kingswell]

I would be against the rule, if you want to be a part of CNRP then you are a part of all of it through the good and bad. If you want to do character RP's with people then you can just don't create a nation on the map just design your characters and RP with other people in CNRP. If you make a nation then you have the accept the fact that it can and may be attacked.

[Botha]

[color="#000080"]We had a similar poll a few years ago - worded differently, but same intent - bringing up the same issue. It was shot down and I don't see anything changing that result again.

Everyone can guess what my vote would be - but I'm abstaining out of principle since I'm not an active RPer anymore. [/color]

[PresidentDavid]

[quote name='Kevin Kingswell' timestamp='1328572860' post='2915683']
I would be against the rule, if you want to be a part of CNRP then you are a part of all of it through the good and bad. If you want to do character RP's with people then you can just don't create a nation on the map just design your characters and RP with other people in CNRP. If you make a nation then you have the accept the fact that it can and may be attacked.
[/quote]

From what I understand "forced" war was not always part of CNRP. So I want to remove the "forced" part from the game. Because no one likes to be "forced" to do anything and since this is a game people play it to have fun and not be "forced" into things.

It's kind of like eating birthday cake with rocks in it but being told to deal with it.

[Sarah Tintagyl]

[quote name='PresidentDavid' timestamp='1328572455' post='2915679']
Get rid of the map?
[/quote]

Sure...I don't care about the map. Interact with who you want to interact with or don't interact at all.

[Botha]

[quote name='PresidentDavid' timestamp='1328571850' post='2915665']I do not want to fight wars at all. That is not the part of it I want. Maybe a majority of the community disagrees with me, but I do not like war. I do not want to be invaded because I do not want to RP a war... It's not that I like to RP wars but I'm just not good at it - it's just that I do not like RPing war period. I would love to interact with you or cent or Sarah, but I don't want it on the battlefield where y'all will win and raise a communist flag over Austin. No. I want it to be character RP.

Though you are the most powerful player in CNRP so I understand why you would be against this rule..... Don't we have a rule that says someone can not be [i]forced[/i] to RP things? [/quote]

This is a valid point.

I can also understand Triyun's point of view about HAE (as an example) using this rule as a means to bank its territory. The size of that nation was absurd.

That's why utilising the in-game SOI is so useful, make a compromise that anything beyond someone's SOI is liable to invasion (and, surprise to many, [i]even I[/i] went along with this logic when Martens & Co. invaded my Somalian holdings).

And impose minimum/maximum limits on SOI, so that anything beyond (thowing out a number) 2,000 miles is liable to invasion regardless of SOI, and anything less than, I dunno, 200 miles or less is illegal to invade.

This would eliminate the steamrolling, because it would ensure that a player subject to an invasion he may not agree with, can at least mainatin his prescence in the CNRP world. You would not be able to unilaterally force someone off the map if they did not agree.

You would probably end up seeing a patchwork of nations, as no one would be able to unilaterally (not my prior agreement) take someone else over - but it would at least keep more players involved.

[AironthFlamewing]

[quote name='Botha' timestamp='1328573763' post='2915691']
This is a valid point.

I can also understand Triyun's point of view about HAE (as an example) using this rule as a means to bank its territory. The size of that nation was absurd.

That's why utilising the in-game SOI is so useful, make a compromise that anything beyond someone's SOI is liable to invasion (and, surprise to many, [i]even I[/i] went along with this logic when Martens & Co. invaded my Somalian holdings).

And impose minimum/maximum limits on SOI, so that anything beyond (thowing out a number) 2,000 miles is liable to invasion regardless of SOI, and anything less than, I dunno, 200 miles or less is illegal to invade.

This would eliminate the steamrolling, because it would ensure that a player subject to an invasion he may not agree with, can at least mainatin his prescence in the CNRP world. You would not be able to unilaterally force someone off the map if they did not agree.

You would probably end up seeing a patchwork of nations, as no one would be able to unilaterally (not my prior agreement) take someone else over - but it would at least keep more players involved.
[/quote]

How then Botha do you deal with powers like Triyun- who basically control the map and have a sort of my way or the highway type of IC arrogance? How do we mould that into an acceptable CNRP for everyone-

[Lynneth]

I actually like Botha's proposal for using SoI to manage this. And it's not hard to figure stuff like that out, if you use a website like this: [url="http://www.freemaptools.com/radius-around-point.htm"]Radius around a point[/url]

[Kankou]

[quote name='Lynneth' timestamp='1328574442' post='2915697']
I actually like Botha's proposal for using SoI to manage this. And it's not hard to figure stuff like that out, if you use a website like this: [url="http://www.freemaptools.com/radius-around-point.htm"]Radius around a point[/url]
[/quote]
IG SoIs are absurdly huge. Maybe if we shrink them or use it to calculate approximate surface area....

[Kevin Kingswell]

[quote name='Botha' timestamp='1328573763' post='2915691']
This is a valid point.

I can also understand Triyun's point of view about HAE (as an example) using this rule as a means to bank its territory. The size of that nation was absurd.

That's why utilising the in-game SOI is so useful, make a compromise that anything beyond someone's SOI is liable to invasion (and, surprise to many, [i]even I[/i] went along with this logic when Martens & Co. invaded my Somalian holdings).

And impose minimum/maximum limits on SOI, so that anything beyond (thowing out a number) 2,000 miles is liable to invasion regardless of SOI, and anything less than, I dunno, 200 miles or less is illegal to invade.

This would eliminate the steamrolling, because it would ensure that a player subject to an invasion he may not agree with, can at least mainatin his prescence in the CNRP world. You would not be able to unilaterally force someone off the map if they did not agree.

You would probably end up seeing a patchwork of nations, as no one would be able to unilaterally (not my prior agreement) take someone else over - but it would at least keep more players involved.
[/quote]

Not a bad suggestion however, I spotted a loophole if you had this method then yes it means that you can't be rolled and fully wiped out but that can play to someones advantage. Imagine if I launched a big invasion gathered lots of land and then was defeated loosing it all upto my 200 miles there is nothing stopping me yet again attacking at a later date and regaining the land back.

In fact all this would do is create more problems for the map maker as the map would have to be constantly updated.

[Generalissimo]

[quote name='Sarah Tintagyl' timestamp='1328571905' post='2915667']Another reason why I say get rid of the map.[/quote]I’ve always been against the map – from Botha’s scramble for Africa to that conference that followed.
Eventually my position became so fringe within the community it wasn’t worth discussing anymore.
I’m just glad someone, anyone, finally agrees me.

[Generalissimo]

[quote name='Triyun' timestamp='1328571562' post='2915661'] People need to interact with the whole community, they need to stop complaining.[/quote]People wouldn’t keep complaining if there wasn’t a problem!

Complaining about complaining is still complaining.

[Triyun]

Then complain IC. Don't like Tianxia, Athens, Amazonia, Germany, whatever, go do something about it IC. People's instinct these days is to run to the OOC forum with every little problem and setback. That is the problem. You want to know what made great stories back in the day, it was conflict. It was building ideologies and counter ideologies. A few people still do that, but most people's first thought is to say their enemy is a big meanie.

There are many people in CN RP with big nations. The Union and the Horde combined are relatively smaller than Ferrous Pacific and Grand Army were back in the day.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Triyun