The GM's Court

[TheShammySocialist]

[quote name='Rotavele' timestamp='1329024595' post='2918869']
[center][img]http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/1540/spyinfor.jpg[/img][/center]

1 Spy Roll: To Convince a Military Offical to work for FIA (Floridan Intelligence Agency)
1 Spy Roll: Transfer of Money in Exchange for Military Documents
[/quote]

1-10 Fail
11-100 Win

12 25

Two wins, guv'nor.

[KaiserMelech Mikhail]

I'd like to raise a complaint against Jeff. In Triyun's thread, he's buying 74 ships (most of which should be multi-billion dollar purchases), and thousands of planes in 105 squadrons. The whole concept should cost hundreds of billions of dollars in total, and that is just a stupid amount for anything. I know that we technically don't have an economy system in place, but this goes against all common sense, and we certainly have rules on that. So, unless he RPs a complete economic collapse from spending all this money on this, I'm calling major shenanigans.

[Kankou]

Another thing to note is that Triyun needs to update his ships so he takes out some of the more impossible ones.

[jeff744]

[quote name='KaiserMelech Mikhail' timestamp='1329035086' post='2918923']
I'd like to raise a complaint against Jeff. In Triyun's thread, he's buying 74 ships (most of which should be multi-billion dollar purchases), and thousands of planes in 105 squadrons. The whole concept should cost hundreds of billions of dollars in total, and that is just a stupid amount for anything. I know that we technically don't have an economy system in place, but this goes against all common sense, and we certainly have rules on that. So, unless he RPs a complete economic collapse from spending all this money on this, I'm calling major shenanigans.
[/quote]
A) I have owned absolutely no military weapons but swords and shields for 5 IG years, using common sense I argue there would be a fund specially dedicated for the large purchase
B) Startup nations usually claim their military comes out of nowhere when they start up so I would also have the funds from not getting that military
C) In the case the above statement is rejected how do startup nations afford their first military?
D) This is the first time I will have more than small arms and sword&shield

[iKrolm]

[quote name='KaiserMelech Mikhail' timestamp='1329035086' post='2918923']
I'd like to raise a complaint against Jeff. In Triyun's thread, he's buying 74 ships (most of which should be multi-billion dollar purchases), and thousands of planes in 105 squadrons. The whole concept should cost hundreds of billions of dollars in total, and that is just a stupid amount for anything. I know that we technically don't have an economy system in place, but this goes against all common sense, and we certainly have rules on that. So, unless he RPs a complete economic collapse from spending all this money on this, I'm calling major shenanigans.
[/quote]

As previously said, jeff doesn't have to RP an economy. If he did though, a loan or long-term payment plan would not be unreasonable.

[Captain Enema]

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=109053&st=0&gopid=2918972&#entry2918972

This thread is based on the spy roll Rota won. In her spy attack she seriously implied that she not only hacked an entire military database that she hacked the private personal server admin and she roleplayed that server admin, My citizen, as taking a bribe.

No, and hell no.. she does not get to rp my citizens.

Here is her spy troll.

[quote name='Rotavele' timestamp='1329028726' post='2918896']
[center][img]http://catsangel.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/cloaked-woman.jpg[/img]

[font="Book Antiqua"][size="5"]***CLASSIFIED***
The Legend of Maunita Lunez[/size][/center]
[left]
Maunita was a young woman, She was a well educated woman who worked largely with the Florida Intelligence Agency (FIA) as a stealth-time operations coordinator. Maunita had been proposed a mission which had a $2,750,000 Payment. Knowing her chances of success as a spy were high, she continued to create documents and plans to organize a mission to recover information and intelligence of the Military of The Legion. She had gotten on her computer and had organized a well to-do program that would help her acquire her needs and goals of achieving the intelligence that the government wanted her to achieve. She had been on the military servers before and know just how they worked, She continued to play around and then it was dead time. Her mission was finally ready to be put in place. The nuts and bolts of the mission were complete.

Maunita connected to approximately 374 well-to-do speedy and well connected proxy servers from around the world. She had attempted to many many long ranged servers in order to completely hide her existence for a good amount time. Finally, Maunita connected to the Military Servers of The Legion. She had spent time moving files to her flash drive. She had a good amount of files (~2.4 Gb of memory was filled). She continued to move files. File after file, went by and Maunita got tired. She was preparing to disconnect and her screen froze. A chat screen opened up.

[code]
MILSERVADMIN152: How many I help you? The Military Information you seek to steal is not available you damned Texan!
IP298.521.643.452: Texan?
MILSERVADMIN152: The gig is up, While you were transferring military files, i had added a new one. You blindly added Setup.exe in your hard drive. I can fry your computer at any moment. Everyone knows not to open that.
IP298.521.643.452: Tell me your real name.
MILSERVADMIN152: What? Are you crazy?
IP298.521.643.452: Im Jericho. Jericho Nickniza of Pakistan.
MILSERVADMIN152: Really? Well if your honest, I guess I can be too. Im ****** *****,
IP298.521.643.452: ******, You made a stupid mistake. I have your address, phone number, wifes name, and credit card information as we speak. I advise you to let me go if you'd like to make it out of the server room alive.
MILSERVADMIN152: I will destroy you, Jericho. Thats impossible.
**SERVER**: Trace failed, Re-routed to 251 new Proxy Servers
IP298.521.643.452: Nevermind that.
IP298.521.643.452: As you could probably not already tell, Im not Jericho. My name is far different. The thing you should be worried about is your wife ***** *****, Your 2 daughters **** ******, ***** ******, and your dog ******. Your credit card number is ****-****-****-****-****, and finally you phone number is (***)***-****. What do you say I have coffee later tonight, your treat?
MILSERVADMIN152: How did you do that? How did you learn all of that?!?!
IP298.521.643.452: I will teach you in return of a favor. In-fact i will put $50,000 directly on your personal bank card if you do something for me.
MILSERVADMIN152: How do I know I can trust you? You've already taken me once.
IP298.521.643.452: $10,000 just entered your bank account.
MILSERVADMIN152: Really?!?!
MILSERVADMIN152: Brb
*4 minutes later*
MILSERVADMIN152: One second I need to figure out my password, my wife changed it.
IP298.521.643.452: God damn-it.
*10 minutes later*
MILSERVADMIN152: Got it.
MILSERVADMIN152: WOW! You really did!
IP298.521.643.452: Told you.
MILSERVADMIN152: What would you like? Ill do anything if you teach me that. Just do not say a word, ill delete the back up files, and send me an email on how to learn to do all of that stuff. Ive only got a small degree in Programming!
IP298.521.643.452: And they let you work there
MILSERVADMIN152: Yes.
IP298.521.643.452: Enough talk, Forward the files to my flash drive. Remove your virus, and remember i will know if your !@#$@#$ with me, **** *****.
*4,527 Files Recieved to Flash Drive*
MILSERVADMIN152: Do I get my money?
MILSERVADMIN152: Hello?
IP298.521.643.452: Sorry. Yes, Check your account.
MILSERVADMIN152: I just refreshed it. Thank you so much, Whoever you are.
IP298.521.643.452: If I ever need work done again, Ill personally contact you.
MILSERVADMIN152: I dont know if i can do this again, its too risky.
IP298.521.643.452: Your cash reward will double every time.
MILSERVADMIN152: You've made a new friend today! LOL
*2 minutes later*
MILSERVADMIN152: Hello?
*CONNECTION ENDED*[/code]

The files were quickly exported from the flash drive on Muanita's work computer. The connection to the military server was closed and the proxies were disabled. After making thousands of copies of the files, They were uploaded to Florida Intelligence Agencies PRIORITY UNO Database. The files consisted of Military Divisions, Military Service Member's Personal Information, Military Base and Unit Locations, Military Launch Codes, and Military Weapon Specifications. The Files were quickly sent to the President and Military HQ. The files were viewed and logged into the Information Database.

After it had been copied onto 2 flash drives, The information was all deleted from all Computers and Databases. The information had NO electronic or paper trails. Maria Gueilla had taken two flash drives and began making her war via military escort to the People's House.




[/font][/left]
[/quote]

[Kankou]

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=109084&view=findpost&p=2918984

This is the kind of thing I had in mind when I proposed the missile limits. What kind of nation has their battleships/cruiser carry around over twenty TASMs when the main function of a battleship is anti-ground and the cruiser anti-air/ground support? Missile spammings are getting ridiculous now.

Also, the TASM has a range of 450 km, not the 2,500 of the [b]nuclear[/b] TLAM-A.

[KaiserMelech Mikhail]

[quote name='jeff744' timestamp='1329036796' post='2918934']
A) I have owned absolutely no military weapons but swords and shields for 5 IG years, using common sense I argue there would be a fund specially dedicated for the large purchase
[/quote]
This is really one of those things you need to RP out. Also, you probably mean IC years. Also, does this mean that you still use swords and shields while in your supermodern jet fighters and battleships?

This is also not to mention that a military is not the only thing that you spend money on. The costs of a country actually getting started are astronomical. Setting up infrastructure, bureaucracies, and in your case, entire cities really doesn't leave a new nation 150 billion dollars to throw around after 5 years.

[quote]
B) Startup nations usually claim their military comes out of nowhere when they start up so I would also have the funds from not getting that military
C) In the case the above statement is rejected how do startup nations afford their first military?[/quote]
They afford their first military because, while going kind of stupid, they don't go 150 billion dollars out of nowhere stupid. A new assault rife costs 1000 dollars, a new jet fighter (which you have bought well over 1000 of) costs 150 million. A new jeep may cost 50000 dollars, a new submarine costs several billion and a new aircraft carrier can cost double or triple that. There really is no comparison here. Also, many new nations tend to spread their purchases out.

[quote]
D) This is the first time I will have more than small arms and sword&shield
[/quote]
Like I said, the military isn't the biggest cost in most nations, and weapons aren't the biggest cost to the military. You would have still lost all the money paying those hundreds of thousands of men their salaries.

[quote name='iKrolm' timestamp='1329037399' post='2918936']
As previously said, jeff doesn't have to RP an economy. If he did though, a loan or long-term payment plan would not be unreasonable.
[/quote]
I would say that a loan or long-term payment plan would be [i]common sense[/i].

[Evangeline Anovilis]

Also, was it just me or had Neo Roma some warlords/rebellions just some time ago? I think that isn't going to help the economy either.

[Triyun]

[quote name='Kankou' timestamp='1329035784' post='2918932']
Another thing to note is that Triyun needs to update his ships so he takes out some of the more impossible ones.
[/quote]

I'm going to replace them with volcano detonators, BRB.

In regards to Jeff. Jeff can buy whatever he wants. If he has it in game he can develop it in CN RP, deal with it.

[Kankou]

[quote name='Triyun' timestamp='1329078031' post='2919128']
I'm going to replace them with volcano detonators, BRB.[/quote]
I'm pretty sure that's the correct retort for having a 55 Knots escort carrier. Why am I not surprised you're defending it?

Notice: The above is sarcasm, for those whose detectors aren't sensitive enough.

[Triyun]

I don't use that carrier in active duty anymore. How about you go RP and stop spamming the OOC threads though. Its getting to be tiresome. I'm hardly the only one who thinks so either.

[Kankou]

[quote name='Triyun' timestamp='1329085296' post='2919206']
I don't use that carrier in active duty anymore. How about you go RP and stop spamming the OOC threads though. Its getting to be tiresome. I'm hardly the only one who thinks so either.
[/quote]
They either have a mouth of their own and speak to me, or they shut up. Also, as I told TSS, I brought it up because jeff744 ordered it. You might as well just take out a ship that seems to have come from some different era of CNRP.

[Triyun]

If someone has a problem, they need to post here. As far as I am concerned no player speaks for anyone but themselves. You're not some sort of special self appointed representative of the populist masses.

[Kankou]

[quote name='Triyun' timestamp='1329085829' post='2919211']
If someone has a problem, they need to post here. As far as I am concerned no player speaks for anyone but themselves. You're not some sort of special self appointed representative of the populist masses.
[/quote]
Then don't say "I'm hardly the only one who thinks so either". You've basically set yourself as some representative of people who don't have the guts to speak their minds, and yet are telling me I'm acting as such when I haven't done so?

A GM-related issue: How does one RP in a disputed protectorate? Do you need specific permission from the original protector, or both sides of the conflict?

[Evangeline Anovilis]

What hull shape/propulsion system is used to give that thing 55 knots? And what tech does it need to have such systems?

[Triyun]

Its a trimaran. But Seriously Eva? Did I just not say I don't use it. You guys are trying to make an issue out of something I don't use from a different tech era? That reeks of frivolous. I don't even produce those anymore.

People have seemed to turn the GM court into their own little area to whine every time there is the slightest iddy bitty issue, many of which like this one have zero functional relevancy. I haven't even gotten to answering Jeff's request IC and you are assuming there is a problem. Further I'd like to ask how many times Curri or JED has rerolled rebuilt everything and nobody has given a peep about build ups? Jeff rebuilds from a war and everyone's reaction is to go and whine to the GM court. To me this reflects a much deeper decay within both the civility and capability of many a CN RPer to deal with role play in a responsible sense. Go role play instead of trying to turn everything into OOC if you have an issue with the player.

This is frivolous.

[Kankou]

When have people not whined? For that matter, when things aren't written in the OOC/GM thread, people tend to push off what is spoken in IRC when it suits them. Hell, they try not to respond to what is against them when a certain military/science issue is brought up. Also, not everyone have the time to RP as much as you do, Triyun.

For that matter, can I have the question to disputed protectorates answered?

[Triyun]

Quite frankly Kankou, I think I'm not alone in saying this: If you have time to post as much you do in the OOC threads, you have A LOT more time to RP than you act like you do.

As TBM observed in another thread you seem to be asking for something OOC everytime someone refreshes the page. While you may feel aggrieved and that its ruining CN RP for you. For multiple people, you are ruining CN RP for them by constantly posting OOC and making everything about OOC. CN RP is about stories and content, its about interaction. The amount of times you've queried over Malatose rather than talking to him is ridiculous. I just warred him, he got testy sometimes. I got testy sometimes. Sarah got testy sometimes. We all worked it out like normal people. IF you put a lot of effort into it, close your eyes real hard and wish upon a star not to have the insatiable urge to grind your nails across a chalkboard every time you talk to them, and instead treat them as an equal, maybe you too could carry on a mature conversation.

CN RP is simply not about spending 20 hours reading a rule book. If you got an issue then go query or PM someone. But for christ sake stop spamming the OOC forums. This whole thing with Jeff could be handled through private query. The whole question about whether I still had this ship could be handled that way. It is a choice that you choose to take. And don't try to hide behind you're giving voice to the voiceless. This is an online game. If people have something to say they can say it. What are they afraid of, they lose a few pixels on the map? First of all I doubt they will, but second grow a pair. I shudder to think what happens if they actually have to speak up for themselves in real life.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Triyun

[Centurius]

[quote name='Tidy Bowl Man' timestamp='1329054597' post='2918975']
http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=109053&st=0&gopid=2918972&#entry2918972

This thread is based on the spy roll Rota won. In her spy attack she seriously implied that she not only hacked an entire military database that she hacked the private personal server admin and she roleplayed that server admin, My citizen, as taking a bribe.

No, and hell no.. she does not get to rp my citizens.

Here is her spy troll.
[/quote]

Going to wipe that entire roll to begin with, as established earlier spy rolls can't break the rule that you can not rp another's citizens.

Also what Triyun said, seriously all this whining is quite frankly messing the GMs court up for people with legitimate concerns.

[Kankou]

[quote name='Triyun' timestamp='1329090100' post='2919259']
Quite frankly Kankou, I think I'm not alone in saying this: If you have time to post as much you do in the OOC threads, you have A LOT more time to RP than you act like you do. [/quote]
It takes only minutes to write OOC stuff. I probably spend only half an hour on writing all this every day, while I tend to spend hours reediting my RPs.

[quote name='Triyun' timestamp='1329090100' post='2919259']As TBM observed in another thread you seem to be asking for something OOC everytime someone refreshes the page. While you may feel aggrieved and that its ruining CN RP for you. For multiple people, you are ruining CN RP for them by constantly posting OOC and making everything about OOC. CN RP is about stories and content, its about interaction. The amount of times you've queried over Malatose rather than talking to him is ridiculous. I just warred him, he got testy sometimes. I got testy sometimes. Sarah got testy sometimes. We all worked it out like normal people. IF you put a lot of effort into it, close your eyes real hard and wish upon a star not to have the insatiable urge to grind your nails across a chalkboard every time you talk to them, and instead treat them as an equal, maybe you too could carry on a mature conversation.[/quote]
I'm pretty sure all private IRC discussions with Malatose have been cordial. It was in the public IRC and PMs that he went about saying I'm a elawyer and the such. If a person is going to be all boastful and arrogant in public, it's not my fault they go to the GMs whining that I'm not cooperating and asking for a war waiver. I'm pretty sure that it's to Malatose you should be giving this lecture. After all, exactly what complaints has Malatose said to me [b]directly[/b]?


[quote name='Triyun' timestamp='1329090100' post='2919259']And don't try to hide behind you're giving voice to the voiceless.[/quote]
Those who don't have the will to voice their concerns do not have the right to a voice to be chosen over them. I don't give a damn about the voiceless, and when I speak, I speak my mind unless others have already expressed their thoughts beforehand in public.


Finally:

[quote]15:52 Kankou Since it seems the question keeps getting buried
15:52 Kankou A GM-related issue: How does one RP in a disputed protectorate? Do you need specific permission from the original protector, or both sides of the conflict?
15:52 Centurius both sides
15:52 Triyun unless you are also disputing it
15:52 Centurius yes
15:53 Kankou hiw about if spy rolls are concerned?
15:53 Triyun but you need a new nation if like you wanna raise forces
15:53 Triyun both
15:53 Triyun again though
15:53 Centurius spy rolls can never go around basic rules
15:53 Triyun they have to be assets from YOUR nation to spyroll
15:53 Triyun like
15:53 Triyun you can't spyroll in the Judean People's Front to oppose the People's Front of Judea
15:54 Kankou lol
15:54 Kankou okay, thanks[/quote]

Thanks for the answer.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Kankou

[PresidentDavid]

[quote name='TheShammySocialist' timestamp='1329026877' post='2918890']
1-10 Fail
11-100 Win

12 25

Two wins, guv'nor.
[/quote]

I see how this may have slipped past Shammy however I request that for the sake of the continuity of RP that the GMs decide if a spyroll is within the rules or not when they approve the spyroll.

I understand that the information within the roll was change - just giving a simple request that can get things to run smoothly in the future.

Edited February 13, 2012 by PresidentDavid

[Beauty]

[quote name='PresidentDavid' timestamp='1329106948' post='2919381']
I see how this may have slipped past Shammy however I request that for the sake of the continuity of RP that the GMs decide if a spyroll is within the rules or not when they approve the spyroll.

I understand that the information within the roll was change - just giving a simple request that can get things to run smoothly in the future.
[/quote]

Yeah I understand too. I changed the RP and reposted it to just hacking into the Military Systems. Im requesting to "Unretconn" the RP between me and Texas since the information was fixed.

[Captain Enema]

[b]Very important..[/b]

Using 374 proxies to protect yourself from detection would do one or two things. Make it impossible to even connect with the database or make your connection time so slow that even an unsuspecting nation like mine would be able to detect the intrusion.


[b]Even More Important[/b]

I'm not asking for this new attempt to be retconned. It comes under the spirit of a spy roll being successful only if the attack is launched intelligently and with common sense. It is perfectly within Rota's prerogative to launch a terrible spy attack with a successful roll.

However, the common sense factor kicks into play. 374 proxies is absurd. I request that either her attack be a complete failure due to it taking so long that load times were impossible and she escapes unscathed or I detect it and manage to act upon it in some way.


[b]Relevant RP[/b]

[quote name='Rotavele' timestamp='1329106157' post='2919370']
[center][img]http://catsangel.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/cloaked-woman.jpg[/img]

[font="Book Antiqua"][size="5"]***CLASSIFIED***
The Legend of Maunita Lunez[/size][/center]
[left]
Maunita was a young woman, She was a well educated woman who worked largely with the Florida Intelligence Agency (FIA) as a stealth-time operations coordinator. Maunita had been proposed a mission which had a $2,750,000 Payment. Knowing her chances of success as a spy were high, she continued to create documents and plans to organize a mission to recover information and intelligence of the Military of The Legion. She had gotten on her computer and had organized a well to-do program that would help her acquire her needs and goals of achieving the intelligence that the government wanted her to achieve. She had been on the military servers before and know just how they worked, She continued to play around and then it was dead time. Her mission was finally ready to be put in place. The nuts and bolts of the mission were complete.

Maunita connected to approximately 374 well-to-do speedy and well connected proxy servers from around the world. She had attempted to many many long ranged servers in order to completely hide her existence for a good amount time. Finally, Maunita connected to the Military Servers of The Legion. She had spent time moving files to her flash drive. She had a good amount of files (~2.4 Gb of memory was filled). She continued to move files. File after file, went by and Maunita got tired. She was preparing to disconnect and she noticed she was almost traced. She quickly disconnected just in time.

The files were quickly exported from the flash drive on Muanita's work computer. The connection to the military server was closed and the proxies were disabled. After making thousands of copies of the files, They were uploaded to Florida Intelligence Agencies PRIORITY UNO Database. The files consisted of Military Divisions, Military Service Member's Personal Information, Military Base and Unit Locations, Military Launch Codes, and Military Weapon Specifications. The Files were quickly sent to the President and Military HQ. The files were viewed and logged into the Information Database.

After it had been copied onto 2 flash drives, The information was all deleted from all Computers and Databases. The information had NO electronic or paper trails. Maria Gueilla had taken two flash drives and began making her war via military escort to the People's House.




[/font][/left]
[/quote]

[Beauty]

[quote name='Tidy Bowl Man' timestamp='1329108232' post='2919392']
[b]Very important..[/b]

Using 374 proxies to protect yourself from detection would do one or two things. Make it impossible to even connect with the database or make your connection time so slow that even an unsuspecting nation like mine would be able to detect the intrusion.


[b]Even More Important[/b]

I'm not asking for this new attempt to be retconned. It comes under the spirit of a spy roll being successful only if the attack is launched intelligently and with common sense. It is perfectly within Rota's prerogative to launch a terrible spy attack with a successful roll.

However, the common sense factor kicks into play. 374 proxies is absurd. I request that either her attack be a complete failure due to it taking so long that load times were impossible and she escapes unscathed or I detect it and manage to act upon it in some way.
[/quote]


God ****it do you ever stop whining? and a successful spy operation wouldn't be a "Complete Failure" just because you don't like the way its done. I said it was behind very speedy proxies, but ok ill start being very undetailed in my RPs so you have less to constantly whine about. No wonder it takes you so long to reply, you try every cornor you can to be "invincible".


[b]EDIT:[/b] I took out the number of proxies and labeled it as a secure connection. Would you like a box of tissues or you are you going to stop shooting out tears every time someone takes action against you?


[b]2nd EDIT:[/b] Would a GM PLEASE work with me and allow me to start PMing them all of my posts before i post them so I can write at the bottom "OOC: APPROVED AS COMPLETELY VALID BY ________". It would greatly reduce the complaints as chances are your going to have to read them all anyway due to complaints.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Rotavele