magicninja

I'm was the leader and I told AUT and Nord Belka they should do everything they can to get members to follow them. I was also the one who let AUT post the thread. Now stop with the AUT bashing. You want to direct that anger at someone. Here I am.

Don't worry I'll wait.

That all you got? Really?

What? Read my post again and read yours and tell me how much sense you just made. @WC Blah Blah Blah Make a real point or move on.

That is basically SCM's reasoning too. Look at the op. "We're on this side and your on that side so that gives us the right to declare on you. Treaties be damned."

I wasn't there for that. I came in in the middle of the ruckus. I had no idea that AUT had told Mel he would become chairman when he left. All I saw was Mel ask everyone in the chan to vote for him or AUT, then AUT choosing me to be Chairman, and then Mel getting upset and leaving. That whole situation left me very uncomfortable and not too pleased with Mel. So, yeah I was a total $@! to him when he came in demanding I tell him about AUT. I could've handled it better but there was just so much going on I was already on edge with a short fuse. Nothing was going right at the beginning and I was yelling at everyone that week. Acknowledging your mistakes is the first step to learning from them. Getting input from others on your mistakes is the second which is why I've never been afraid to go all out in the public eye.

Yeah Karma sold out their honor and integrity long before this. At least your willing to admit it now. Up til now yeah I would expect people to follow their treaties and line up where they fall. It seems to be the whole point of the game. Now if you all really wanted to do what your saying why not just round up all the Karma alliances who want to fight a broader war than their treaties allow and sign a wartime MADP bloc that expires once all the wars are peaced out? That I would respect and even tip my hat to as a good strategy. Just doing it out of the blue in one case however seems a bit dodgy to me. Now I'm not picking on DF here just to pick on them. If it were NPO and Co. pulling this I would still be shouting it down. Anything worth doing is worth doing right imo and this just wasn't done right no matter how you twist it.

Call me a purist but I'm not up for devolving the game in to a free for all every time a war breaks out. Takes all the fun and real strategy out of the game. If that's the way it's going to be then again you should Drop out of every bloc and treaty you are a part of and say the hell with it. It just doesn't jive with the spirit of the game as it's been played for the last three years. If this is what it takes to win from your side then fine do what you gotta do I guess. Just no !@#$%*ing in the future when it happens to you.

Damn I hate going against my own word.... (OOC)Who cares about OOC scenarios. As far as "magicninja" is concerned "WWII" and "USA" and "Japan" (Though probably PB nations ) Don't exist and your analgy don't count.(OOC) Where in all of PB history have people just moved to a "new front" without any treaties? If people have been doing this throughout all of history then fine I'll shut up and remember it for next time. Why shouldn't a coalition called "Karma" fight with honor without having to resort to these kind of BS tactics to win? Gee let me think for a minute.....

Poor little fellers. Didn't see the forest for the trees. Don't be too hard on them. Wouldn't wanna invite any bad Karma would you?

Member. StC. Just one guy. If it wasn't for Melutar there never would have been a problem apparently. Also, I did apologize to him and I did ask AUT to back off of him in #Soldier. Just like Cheyenne asked. I honestly thought we were done with that ordeal after that. No one told me any different until Chey came in talking about canceling the treaty. So, I'm sorry if I was a bit taken by surprise and a little pissed off that me doing what he asked didn't help.

What case? It's just the truth. I wasn't totally blameless and I was quite a !@#$% at times. I admit it and said I was sorry. Does no one read the posts after the logs?

Edit: Ahh yes. Apparently so. Well 3 leaders then the last only being there for less than 2 weeks hell I think it was barely over 1. Try reading the thread. A little harsh but close enough. Then members who friends to each of them followed them on their way out etc. I was left with almost nothing. Bless Nord for sticking to the end. That dude will be a good leader.

I have actually. I've resigned myself from not doing anything in alliance gov for a loooong while. Not even deputy something or another. Damn it'll be sweet.

Didn't you know that SCM doesn't even thing NOIR has anything to do with war or politics? SCM isn't even trying to justify it to us anymore. He's trying to justify it to himself. All you've accomplished is completely cheapening CCC, GR, CD, and DE's victory in this battle. They foguht a hard earned, honorable war and you jump on and make it a slaughter? That isn't the right thing man. It really isn't but if you wanna believe it is go for it. I'm actually done here.

You seem to be mixing to separate situations though. If my memory serves me well, and it does , The argument was never about aiding IAA. We all stepped up to do that. The argument came during the BAPS war when BAPS aided GOONs and GATO was still "enemies" with GOONs. Instead of getting involved directly I put forth the motion to let Valhalla and TPF use our spies. Some of them didn;t care for it much. From what I was told later on it was mostly due to the GATO stigma of the times. They did however say we could help by aiding Nuke Anarchied nations which I tabled to the GA. Then there was some arguments. People said that they were treating us like crap and didn't deserve it. I produced some logs of Slayer and Chefjoe saying that it was appreciated and we did end up sending them some aid. It was true that I believed GATO to be scared to step up into the global world after GWIII. I got the impression from talking to Slayer that showing some confidence in ourselves would go a long way to improve relationships with those alliances. So, yeah I proposed that bold step and was a little sad about the reluctance to step up. I thought I lost a few friends, you among them, with that move. I think King from the NFL merge called me a tyrant. So, I did decide to leave.

It's not really a grudge per se. Read the op again and tell me he wasn't taking shots at me. I'm just backing up what I said. I admitted I wasn't blameless or the nicest guy in the whole affair. In fact I probably do come off the worst. I however did apologize for my part.

String? They only had two leaders. The second being in charge for less than 2 weeks............The reason they gave is Soldier wasn't the same alliance and they were right. It really wasn't.

It's almost different if the alliance was getting demolished and had 0 chance of winning but again I would probably have to tell them how full of crap they are. You on the other hand jumped in on an alliance that had no hope of victory. Are they tough? Yes. Will they fight for as long as they can? Yes. Were they gonna win this war? No. Your situation is completely different than the scenario you gave. It's not an opinion. It's fact backed up by precedent. It's most defiantly not my style to attack a beaten alliance without treaty ties. If it's yours I pity you.

Not fans of BS? (Still dunno if I like that Smiley) That's all this is SCM. What's worse is with every post you claim ignorance of your own ineptitude. Then you go on to say that you don't care like you'll always be in Karma's back pocket. I know for a fact there are plenty on that side that really hate what you did here. You may have even had private discussions about how bad you look here. If you think these actions won't have diplomatic consequences in the future you need to re-think your approach man.

Actually, it would've been IPA bringing them along. Which is why the whole oA of our allie's oA just doesn't cut it. Unless of course we all agree that treaties are meaningless. Then hey I'm all for it. Would make things real interesting around war time. That's just not how it is though. Not if you have any integrity.

Oh I mostly agree on that part. It's just not the way it's been done for years. Had the tables been turned you damn well know they would be denouncing a move like this.

So you try to legitimize their move by minimizing the impact treaties have during war? Nobody cares about treaties anymore? I think Umbrella should stand by this stance and drop out of The Citadel and drop any treaties and just fight whoever they want. I'd love to see you do it. You do that and show me that Umbrella really stands by the "treaties don't mean anything" view and I will never post in the OWF again.

Cheyenne told me the whole time if you read the logs that TGR was strictly neutral. So, I guess he just lied then right? Played me for a fool? We'll discuss dropping the treaty while deciding on war plans in another thread? I believe he thought if he didn't cancel first I would've called him on it. I probably would've asked why you didn't come in for us had the treaty not been dropped and you still went to war with NSO. You're actually making me believe my paranoid rants in those logs. It's a pretty big almost. I was talking about Cheyenne trying to BS me but that's good to know I guess.

No, they should have done it right. Any honorable alliance would have. There is no could have.