Dr William Westcher

[quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1334326075' post='2952167'] I wasn't aware we had a International Court of Cybernations to judge the legality of wars. [/quote] If only.

[quote name='Thomasj_tx' timestamp='1334118834' post='2951003'] It's becoming more clear with each of your posts that you have nothing but selective outrage and unfortunately, immature language choices. Darth, chill, dude. Get a grip. [/quote] I agree that relaxation is always the best course of action. However, I like the fact he is scolding OP for taking all my infra away. His outrage may be fueled by a couple op members acting like this was an even sided war- which it wasn't. I mean, its one thing to teach a lesson; a totally different story to act like it was a fair fight. That being said, it was a valuable lesson. I feel obliged to thank Ordo Paradoxia for the education

[quote name='Thomasj_tx' timestamp='1334006967' post='2950466'] I have been sitting back watching the selective outrage by a select few but I just find I can’t sit back in silence anymore. These select few are crying about a massive downdeclare based on the raw ANS data, all the while disregarding the other raw data and underlying situations. The raw data posted earlier correctly showed the nation counts, NS, ANS, etc. What was not seen in the cursory review by these select few was that fact that about 20 RnR/AAA nations were either inactive, out of range or in Anarchy and OP did not attack these nations. If these nations were removed from the raw data, the ANS difference would have been about 8% and the nation count was still about a 35% advantage for RnR/AAA. And when these nations were removed, the tiers were nearly the same since most of the inactives/out of range nations were in the bottom tiers. Their remaining nations, [b]those attacked by OP, were matched nearly equally tier for tier.[/b] To put it another way, if OP had an additional 20 nations that were inactive and/or out of range with very low NS, the raw data would showed a massive advantage for RnR/AAA in nation count and an about equal pairing in NS and ANS. OP only attacked nations that were active and in range (obviously). This is clear by the Anarchy count (about 34 anarchies out of 54 nations). The “real” data, when looked at with unbiased eyes, showed this to be what it was, a match up of near equals in NS and ANS and a nation count advantage for RnR/AAA. As others have pointed out, we had no idea of the WC’s or skills of their remaining 34-35 nations. We knew that AAA has been in TE for a couple of rounds and that RnR were supposed to be experienced SE players. Fact remains that a select few will always look at (or ignore) data to support their selective outrage, especially when OP is involved. I hope that clears up some things. Carry on. [/quote] I bolded the part of this that is totally false. We aren't !@#$%*ing about it anymore, as a matter of fact it has been a good lesson. But I must say a few things about the post you just made. Firstly, " RnR were supposed to be experienced SE players." We are, but there are a total of maybe 10 (that is a very big maybe) nations that are in RnR SE. I simply went on a massive recruitment drive the first few days of the round and got as many members as possible, most of whom have yet to respond to my first alliance wide message. We weren't equally matched. The nations attacking me had 10 times as many soldiers, were nuclear capable and were in the high tech ranges. I feel like this post is trying to save some kind of dignity, but it is redundant. No-one in R&R is mad at the down-declare, but to try to beautify your actions is demeaning. [quote]showed this to be what it was, a match up of near equals in NS and ANS and a nation count advantage for RnR/AAA.[/quote] Listen amigo, I have no problem with learning this lesson the hard way, but you don't need to make such long posts trying to defend your honor because the truth is self-evident. I respect OP very much, especially the guys that are open about the nature of this war (Which has ended btw). Feel free to continue discussion, but please don't try to say we were equally matched opponents okay? Our highest nation had half the NS of your highest nation. Our in actives are dead weight and we are simply shell shocked. Long live OP, RnR and NDO (The three alliances with an unspoken commitment to peace in the beginning of the round... haha) I should have gotten it in writing

[quote name='denkimon' timestamp='1333901052' post='2950000'] Yes. [i]Say we give peace, say "good fight, let's shake", and we are on our way. We will be ridiculed from all sides, by those who have nothing in this fight except their bloated OWF post counts and hatred for GOONS. They care nothing of Mongols nor Kaskus nor you. [/i] Personally, I admire both mongols and kaskus. They are very tenacious, and my 1-on-1 interactions with them have been great. But they are being utterly defeated and we have been quite magnanimous in our execution of this war against them thus far. In the end though that does not matter. To make peace, from our perspective, there is no motivation to do so. In large part that is because whatever we do is wrong. That those not even fighting create this situation for you and for us, those who you think care about you...that is what's really sad. [/quote] Simply from an outsiders perspective I must say this- The continuation of this war is supposed to be a lesson taught right? You are enforcing GOONS policy and have done so without remorse or apology. However, if the people you are teaching the lesson to refuse to bend under the pressure (choosing to snap in half instead) then really the only lesson being taught is to GOONS themselves. You state that if you give peace to the underdog being ground under your foot, that you will be ridiculed by all sides. But engaging in a war of attrition that will leave two alliances translucently thin, and your own alliance with open wounds; and doing so mercilessly will earn you ridicule from anyone with a sense of justice. Especially when it has past the point of common sense. You could easily just say "Alright, that what you guys get." And they still would be hurting badly, but instead you are just wasting your pixels on someone who is past caring. [quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1333904431' post='2950024'] The argument you are making here is actually not one in your favor. It's none of Kaskus' or Mongols' concern (and truth be told, it shouldn't be any of yours as well,) how your self-esteem feels or whether your allies harass you after dragging out a conflict that you could have easily chosen to solve diplomatically if you had wanted to. [/quote] [quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1333938714' post='2950186'] Basically, in this war, Kaskus and Mongols have been able to inflict a good amount of damage and they don't really care about the costs of continuing to fight the war. GOONS aren't exactly the most well-liked alliance by any metric and [u]plenty of people just don't voice their contempt.[/u] A lot of people have been desensitized over the years over the excessive moralizing, but desensitization doesn't mean the underlying sentiments have been wiped out entirely. Like Phineas said, the issue isn't that there isn't opposition to this behavior, but rather the fact that it is fragmented. I mean, it does look like GOONS are militarily incompetent in this and do appear to be bullies in general. I mean, I'm just glad I'm not the one who has to underwrite your checks anymore, since that was always a hassle. To be fair, I never expected to be on the opposing side, but pride, to some extent, demands it. [/quote] I understand enforcing policy, and the fact is demonization of GOONS doesn't work against them, instead they are famous like charlie sheen [b]EDIT: rawr.[/b]

[quote name='Stelios' timestamp='1333929739' post='2950139'] Lol you liked it dont lie.. Also if you want to learn about a reroll guide. Find me on IRC [/quote] I do want to know, but I couldn't find you on IRC (maybe the hours we are on are different) Could you just Message me? [quote name='Owney OSullivan' timestamp='1333939992' post='2950190'] Who said TE was gonna be cherry pie? It [i]is[/i] TE after all. Good luck on the rebuild/roll. [/quote] Hehe, well you popped our cherry. I just got nuked. I feel important. [quote name='StevieG' timestamp='1333952382' post='2950286'] /me scratches head Hal. ANS and nukes are the biggest deciding factors in war. Then there is activity/update activity etc. Total NS and Total nations are rather insignificant. The numbers: ANS RnR+AAA 3780 OP 6293 Nukes RnR+AAA 2 OP 18 If those numbers are correct then there is no point even debating down declare or not. Its so one sided, its a joke. [/quote] No point in crying over ball-stomping sterilization. OP decided that we don't deserve to have kids anymore. [quote] We have a bingo. For someone that I havent seen around here much in the past, you really do get it. [/quote] I have been playing Cybernations for exactly 92 days. I haven't really been on the OWF much because I know that my opinions are liable to get my alliance in hot water. But in TE I can say anything I want about anyone I want, so Its kinda nice. Also, I feel like the politics of the game kinda come naturally for some reason. Lots of experience with other strategy games, just never played one where I hugged pixels [quote]Subject: Nuclear Attack Message: Your nation has been attacked with nuclear weapons by Outlaw. You lost 2077 soldiers, 0 defending tanks, 0 cruise missiles, 52.585 miles of land, 32.454 technology, 148.812 infrastructure, 75% of your aircraft, and 25% of your nuclear vulnerable navy force. In addition to these losses your nation will experience many days of economic devastation.[/quote] [quote][b]Subject:[/b] RE: Yeah [b]Message[/b]: Noone from your gov replied and said anything to us. We would have ended this days ago if you guys were more organized. As it stands now [u]the war will end tonight at update.[/u] My advice is to get a more organized gov structure and not rely upon allies in TE.[/quote] Finally had enough eh? lol

Well... This was fun, but not really. Thanks for the anal fissures OP, but I think you have proven your point. You can successfully roll an alliance of TE newbs.

[quote name='Stelios' timestamp='1333811089' post='2949573'] The round just started.. Get a good reroll guide and you will be fine.. [/quote] Reroll guide? Show meh

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1333765571' post='2949423'] Good luck to all three parties with this even though it's a bit confusing. [/quote] Hehe, I think the basic Gist is Shadow Empire is now in a protectorate with Valhalla instead of R&R.

[quote name='potato' timestamp='1333750297' post='2949282'] So, he's not imposing standards except on X, Y and Z. In other words, he's imposing standards. [/quote] I thought it was a joke. Let me google that site real qui.... He was imposing humor.

I'm offended you don't want my 7k NS nation defending you as a protectorate anymore Demon. This is an outrage. I just farted.

[quote name='LegendoftheSkies' timestamp='1333755223' post='2949338'] We're importing tech just fine actually. Appreciate the concern though! [/quote] Would you say you like fish techs in your mouth?

But if he votes no on the merger then thats a hundred percent shutdown.

[quote name='Thomasj_tx' timestamp='1333752899' post='2949320'] We have barely started the round. No need to throw in the towel so early. Most AA's (including OP) have been in the same position as yours at this point in the round and have hung around and thrived. And the 50% infra/land repurchase makes all the difference. [/quote] Don't worry I wasn't throwing any towels in. I just dramatically misjudged the differences between TE and SE. Obviously, tournament edition is faster and harder; but the real difference is that you have to expect the unexpected. In standard edition, the politics moves so slowly that when an alliance makes an announcement its 9 times out of 10 a gov change or treaty ect. You could just pay your bills and back collect and not miss anything. I got kicked out of my girlfriends and returned to a good 16k ns loss in the first few hours of the attack (cumulative, not my own) Overall, I am liking the pace, I just wish someone would have warned me... [quote]Best of luck and remember the size of the dog in the fight isn't as important as its bite. The politics in TE are totally different. OP hits whoever it wants whenever it wants.[/quote] lawl.

[quote name='Stelios' timestamp='1332720295' post='2943076'] Best of luck to you all. Hope you guys stick around and learn. Things really dont get chaotic until the end of the round. Or a massive down declare happens. Wars arent fought here like SE. And question, how many rounds have you played TE? EDIT: also, with TE wars.. You wont see them coming. There really arent reasons for wars.. other than stats line up Double Edit: I echo what paul said.. RE hits whoever it wants whenever it wants. [/quote] Re-reading this thread makes me wonder how I didn't see this coming This is my first TE round I may have underestimated the chaos a bit. Not to worry though, there is always round 22. Maybe I will go into it a bit smarter next time.

[quote name='Leet Guy' timestamp='1333744478' post='2949229'] You are literally one of the worst users around here. You realize that in the span of this statement you imposed your condescending attitude onto others for wanting to use their standards, while at the same time imposing your own standards? Get off your !@#$@#$ high horse you hypocrite. [/quote] ... No he isn't? Unless you mean his standards against ponychan... in which case I agree bring those pony$#@$ers on over to cybernations.

[quote name='jraenar' timestamp='1333731118' post='2949111'] He's calling attention to OP's ANS being nearly double that of RnR+AAA. It's pretty easy to single-handedly blitz three nations at half one's own strength, so one could attack a total number of nations triple the count of one's own alliance, and still have it be a down-declare. But then, beatdowns are the new normal. All that talk last round about how to not drive new nations and AAs out of the game seems to have just been empty talk. Expected/10. [/quote] Hehehehe. I was just thinking to myself a one round retirement looks pretty sweet what with my guts hanging out all over the place. But then I realized TE doesn't matter. Round 22 heR&Re we come.

[quote name='the wompus' timestamp='1333738262' post='2949176'] So, by this logic, Alliances with the highest ANS will always have a down-declare. Through a lot of hard work and committment, OP has a very solid core of strong builders and smart players. Admittedly, having a higher ANS does make it difficult to find wars sometimes that aren't blatant down declares. However, it's not practical to expect any of the AA's with the highest ANS to just hit each other. We've had more than our fair share of wars with TPC, PS, LE and the numerous incarnations or G6 over the rounds and surely will have more. I suppose everyone would love to see the strongest AA's 'go kamikaze' every single war in some sort of repeated self-implosion. There's a time and a place for that, and we've done it many times and will do it again. Nobody in this thread (from OP anyway) is claiming this to be a grand up-declare. It is good practice fighting wars on numerous fronts and other stats besides ANS weren't terribly askew. If RnR and AAA were better prepared, thing would be looking drastically different at this point. I don't feel that AA's should get a free pass if they are new or unprepared. If anything I sincerely hope this to be a learning experience. I firmly believe that all AA's should strive to be 'elite' (as some say). The bar needs be raised, not lowered. The intention at this point is NOT to pound RnR and AAA into the dirt. No gov from either AA has reached out in an attempt to negotiate peace at this point - we are more than willing. [/quote] Then what is this white peace Message doing in my inbox? And "To be fair" I think we were a pretty soft target. OP realized that in order to slingshot themselves ahead of the pack killing and feeding on the brains of innocents was a good ploy, so the plied it.

[quote name='kongland' timestamp='1333747665' post='2949258'] Great DoW, but an embarassing choice of opponents. Really, Hal - you are an elite alliance (according to your skills), but you've chosen two inexperienced AAs with a half of your ANS. It's not like you didn't have a choice. It's sad..it's not the way to keep the newcomers in TE as well. What kind of introduction into TE is this? You teach them, that a curbstomping is OK? I hope you have just sincerely erred, Hal. You still have a good reputation around here as a person, not like some of your professional trolls. Darth is absolutely right. We've been trying to support this game - look at the numbers. I recall curbstomps like that (by the newcomers) were countered with the punishing expeditions. Remember that? You were one of the participants. What you are doing now is much more deplorable - because you are no noobs. With DoWs like that maybe this @#$%^&ing game deserves to die. It's digusting. I'm not going to argue with hypocrits, whatever they'll say here. Empty words indeed... [/quote] I feel so well defended verbally right now I am not going to say anything. OP was ready to throw down, RnR was still getting organized. Defcon 5 and cherry pie... But now, we are a sorry bunch. ----- Also, I read someone planted a spy!? Why didn't I think of that, maybe I would still be afloat?

[quote name='Stelios' timestamp='1333549169' post='2948242'] Goodluck all involved [/quote] Why thanks.

Just checked out the differences in our alliances... ...

[quote name='Garion' timestamp='1333543280' post='2948218'] [img]http://images4.fanpop.com/image/photos/23500000/Come-At-Me-Bro-khal-drogo-23525547-500-282.gif[/img] I hope everyone will enjoy this war [/quote] I must say, you could have at least warned me, I would have dusted the cheetos off myself first. Good Luck Ordo Paradoxia! Way to stab me in the back! TO ARMS!!!!

[quote name='paul711' timestamp='1332720627' post='2943081'] Best of luck and remember the size of the dog in the fight isn't as important as its bite.[/quote] I agree, hopefully we can muster the jaw strength to take on unspeakable odds [quote] The politics in TE are totally different. OP hits whoever it wants whenever it wants. [/quote] Ballsy.

[quote name='New Frontier' timestamp='1332611318' post='2942655'] Why are you capitalizing that? What do you think BLOCS stands for? As far as the "constant cycle" goes, no meaningful bloc has been created recently that I can think of, and people actually leave blocs fairly rarely. [/quote] Are you being argumentative because you think it makes you look smart? Sheesh. I think it stands for !@#$%^&* Leaves Open Cracks Standard. Is that not right?

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1332595935' post='2942588'] Neither signatory has ever joined a bloc, nor will it end the role of blocs throughout CN, and to say anything pertaining to OBR "isn't about words" is silly. That said, congratulations to both alliances. [/quote] I wasn't saying THEY consistently enter and exit BLOCS, just that everyone else does.

[quote name='Phineas' timestamp='1332571579' post='2942537'] It's a damn good thing I have my paraguas with me. Also, FWIW, I'm just a tad over 4'10. Now, where were we? Oh, watching the only circus in town, the GOONIES doing what they do best: grind alliances to nothingness over inconsequential things. Kaskus, Mongols and hell even NEW, if you ever want someone to practice your English with and want to stick around, hit me up. As far as I see this war and some soon to follow, especially after reading all of these threads (and the OOC Indonesian connection) the only thing really hurting you really seems to be a language barrier. You guys have the right idea, the GOONS... not so much. [/quote] Speaking of the Goonies, did you guys ever think about trying to just give GOONS a Babe Ruth? Thats how they dealt with Sloth- probably a universal solution.