Kevlar

Has nothing to do with that, really. Simply put, I don't know GOD very well as an alliance, nor the people within it. If you want to resort to snipes at our character, then I suppose that can suffice as a first impression. GATO isn't an aggressive alliance, so naturally our engagements on the battlefield tend to lean toward defensive wars. In which case, history will show that we've always been vastly outnumbered. Despite the years of suffering we've had to endure, you won't find too many alliances who can bounce back like GATO With the cultural digression aside, it would be appreciated if discussion revolved around the topic at hand. While I've come to notice it is a very misunderstood idea, especially so with polarizing ideas that occurs during any wartime period, I think it can still be civilly discussed. Thanks, -Kev

Thankfully by Admin's great glory we are blessed with many pixels. With that said, I don't see how your point addresses anything. Xiphosis -- I may be mistaken, but I do not believe this was an address concerning war tactics. I wouldn't take war advice from you either. Can't say I know who 99% of people around here are, so it's just a matter of personal experience and preference, really. The purpose here is to highlight the ends and question the means. I've already alluded to my own personal stands on matters, but those are really nonstarter issues. If people feel they can justify what they do in the context of what they wish to achieve, good for them. -Kev

I think you missed the point, friend. It's quite obvious that this isn't a conflict about GATO, nor is GATO particularly at the forefront of the hearts and minds of those on the frontlines. I never suggested as much, either. I do know that GATO is occasionally mentioned, particularly when listed in the past atrocities of Pacifica. The argument isn't so much about whether or not Karma is trying to fight on someone's behalf. I think GATO's past has been sort of lumped into the collective whole of the evidence that war proponents are using, and I think it's wrong to think as much. If you take issue with that, that's perfectly fine. And frankly, morality has little place with me. This wasn't a moral statement and if it is read as such, then it's a blatant misinterpretation. The point, or at least the higher purpose, is to look at the overarching goal of Karma. While it has nothing to do with the policy of "just as bad as them" (which you're the only one to suggest as far as I can see), it does have something to do with similar actions and policies. It's relatively easy to do similar actions, but paint them up enough so as not to be gratuitously bad. They may not in themselves be "bad" actions, but that doesn't make them good. And this has nothing to do with defending NPO. You're quite quick to judge, and I think that's why you're missing the point entirely. If the nature of war is inherently the same from the era of NPO hegemony, then what progress has been made in removing them? Sure, no one is questioning the white peace terms offered to other groups (unless you're seeing questions that I cannot see). And no one is suggesting NPO get off with white peace and a slap on the wrist. While Karma claims (or at least according to the quote lebubu provided) to be taking a step back from attempting to reform interactions of war, it seems like they're certainly trying to some extent. So the question is, what sort of precedent should be set? What sort of standard should the world follow? I'm not offering answers, nor am I pointing any fingers. My own personal take is that forcing nations into a war is an inherently foul practice, but this isn't my war, nor do I care to partake in it. If the policy of might makes right is going to continue, then I think we should all avoid any illusion of this war being anything above a changing of the guard. Or as they say: same !@#$, different day. It seems obvious to me that now is the best time to pursue any sort of dramatic change to the historical leanings of international relations. It doesn't have to be anything grandiose or create some sort of utopian peace. To paraphrase what someone once said (if I recall correctly, the author has been responding in here ), "Six months from now, we'll either still be talking about where we want to be or we'll be there." A particular set of actions, a culmination of a significant portion of historical global conflicts, is being checked. When the war is all said and done, will we all be hoping that tomorrow doesn't bring another era of the same old practices? Deflect all you want, but there are higher responsibilities here whether you want them or not. It just seems important to know whether or not the era of convenience and the status quo has come to an end. If not, why bother with the charade? Thanks, -Kev

While undoubtedly GATO will continue to be a minor focal point of the continued debate raging over Karma’s war, I still maintain that the only groups who legitimately can talk about our past are GATO, IAA, and the rare pockets of support we had. Understandably, a man can fight for whatever reason he wishes, and if the treatment of GATO is going to be lumped into that, then so be it. I think you’d be wrong to include us, but to each his own. But it won’t evoke any sympathy from me. If GATO and NPO have a troubled past, then it is something for GATO and NPO to resolve. Perhaps the most important lesson I have taken from our war with NPO is that it absolutely sucks when you are forced into a corner with no voice to speak with. The policy of perma-ZI for peace mode nations was forced upon us, not because we lacked the will to fight it, but because the community as a whole did little to prevent it. Further, we passed every day wondering IF terms would ever be presented to us, not when. Frankly, the combination of the two was a downright atrocity. But with that in mind, I would never wish that upon another alliance—even NPO. I don’t believe they deserve an element of reciprocity similar to what we received. I think if Karma wants to really change the landscape of war, they need to do so with clear and evident intentions. Right now, the only intention seems to be destruction. And as a member of an alliance that believed the very same thing, such a war disgusts me. Further, I think it’s a folly to produce demands that threaten to worsen peace terms that at this time do not exist nor presume to exist at any point. NPO is right to fight against it. Having to abandon your dignity is something no alliance wants to do, nor should have to do. If there was a lesson to learn from the treatment of GATO, which this war presumes to right, then it has been lost somewhere. Thanks, -Kev

No need to get my hopes up But yes, I would -Kev

You can credit wootmeister with the new banner They're trying to make me appear less like the old guy (3 years today!) who still lurks GATO and more like one of those hip and youthful sorts. Is it working? And thank you to all the well-wishers! It is an absolute pleasure to be partners with IAA once again They are truly the greatest. -Kev

Global Alliance and Treaty Organization Foreign Affairs Dispatch Greetings, It is with great pleasure that I announce the re-signing of our pact of Mutual Defense with the Imperial Assault Alliance. o/ IAA o/ GATO -Kev

Congratulations and obligatory hail for Chimmy/IAA o/ I concur on the sexiness of this treaty -Kev

Welcome back, friends -Kev

Yeah yeah, I know. Cue the circus music -Kev

Yeah, what's up with that? Besieging our government with fleas. Guess you'll just have to deal with it -Kev

Most definitely. Luckily for us, MTTezla will be sticking around in Congress Thank you to all of the well-wishers -Kev

Global Alliance and Treaty Organization Election Results Greetings, It is my distinct pleasure of announcing the first government of the Global Alliance and Treaty Organization since our release from the Viceroyship: Government Assembly Chairman: Kevlar Minister of Defense: Wootmeister Minister of Foreign Affairs: jsims8 Minister of Domestic Affairs: Manis_B Minister of Finance: JMKeynes 18th Congress of GATO MTTezla Morte Kolia Farvozov Leftwingliberal Greg23 Moniker BlackDragon High Court Benjaminperdomo Esau of Isaac Randle I would like to congratulate everyone who participated in these elections and in particular Laserwolf who provided one of the most exciting Assembly Chairman elections in my memory. He certainly gave me a run for the money (thought he had me beat!). I cannot think of anyone more qualified to help me in this new era of GATO’s history, and consequently Laserwolf is hereby appointed to the position of Deputy Assembly Chairman. Again, congratulations to all of the candidates, winners, and participants in this most epic exercise of our newfound freedom. It is my hope that these coming months shall be a time of prosperity for this alliance and a time for us to propel ourselves back onto the world stage with a determination and tenacity fitting of an alliance of our heritage. We proceed with an open mind and heart, prepared to once again take up the role as a fellow sovereign entity. Aware of our past, we acknowledge the future holds no distinct route other than that which we aspire to and pursue. Further, we shall not be an alliance of hatred or spite for our past treatment, nor blind to vicissitudes of international affairs. Personally, I look forward to getting to know and work with the members of the world community in setting the foundations of our future and paving the path to a more successful coexistence. Thank you, -Kevlar Assembly Chairman of the Global Alliance and Treaty Organization Strength in Unity Honor in Justice

Thank you for the clarification and the support is very appreciated. -Kev

The fact that you're trying to play off all the hard work that GATOans and NPO members have put into rebuilding this great alliance is sickening. Convenient of some people to grab a hold of our hard work and try to claim a slice of the pie. Hijack elsewhere, for our work is not yours to claim. I can see this getting old rather quickly -Kev

This, to me, stands out among a sea of comments. I applaud you for your insight. Thanks to all the well-wishers. It is emphatically a new era for our alliance and I look forward to being a part of it. -Kev

I'm keeping baka, though! -Kev

First Grade, eh? Mrs. Helens, or something. 1993ish I think. I drank away those years. )): admin )): -Kev

Greatest. Three minutes. Ever. -Kev

Your information is outdated. Why would a Viceroy make us complacent? If anything, shouldn't it make us anything but complacent? Our primary aid partner during the rebuilding phase was, as is well-known, NPO. We initially received aid for the simple purpose of rebuilding. We later did tech deals, which were altered to our benefit profit-wise. If your beef is with why we weren't purchasing technology, then the answer is simply because we didn't have the money at the time. Besides, there wouldn't have been a point to beefing up on technology when most of us were ZI. Currently we aren't restricted to NPO for technology deals, so I don't see your point on them keeping us docile or hindering our growth. Second, GATO hasn't been a threat to NPO for ages. If you had made that claim anywhere between GWI and GWIII, then it may make sense. But now? GATO isn't an aggressive alliance. And if the measure of an alliance is simply by its flow of foreign aid and the proliferation of treaties with foreign entities, then we aren't going to get very far. For one, our foreign aid isn't as tied up as you claim. For two, our focus is internal, not external. As well, what is the point in a treaty that isn't backed up by a real and true friendship? Our greatest friends stood by our side when we needed them most. It takes time and effort to make a real friendship like that. So I call bunk on the docile claim. The true measure of an alliance is the tenacity of its members and the incommensurable bonds of friendship they share with each other and their allies. -Kev

It's only wrong when you understand it incorrectly. In the post-war period, those in charge were put in place for the sole purpose of laying the foundations for the integral institutions and processes that run and perpetuate our alliance. The war, as has been stated, sapped a good majority of our membership, both in the literal sense (decline in membership) and in the psychological sense (decline in activity/caring). The Viceroy team stands as a foundational piece to the rebuilding of these internal processes and the training of individuals to take the places of those who left en masse during and after the war's destruction. Frankly, certain practices were virtually impossible in our state. So you're right, in part, on the purposes of rebuilding: 1) the flow of funds and 2) increasing activity. Were these truly demoralizing aspects? I wouldn't say so entirely. Losing a war is demoralizing. Losing your allies is demoralizing. Losing your fellow members is demoralizing. Having a former enemy install a Viceroy (which you approved) with the intent of reshaping your relationship and rebuilding your alliance, not as much. Obviously we weren't taking to the streets in joy, and obviously we'd rather be free, but I don't see this as a crushing moral defeat. In regard to the continuation of these processes, you have to understand that the role of the Viceroy evolves over time. While initially it took on a direct hands-on role, because it was inherently necessary to progress, the role becomes less and less so over time. The aim has always been self-sufficiency. We have had to rebuild virtually every aspect of our alliance from the ground up and we've worked hard to do so, with guidance from the Viceroy team. Are they absolutely necessary at this stage? No, I wouldn't say so. But they aren't intimately involved in the day-to-day operations of the alliance anymore. They're still here watching our progress, watching us in action, and stepping in when necessary. But really, their need to be here is slowly fading out. Those of us who are involved in the inner-workings of the alliance have worked alongside these people for quite awhile now, and I'm sure most of us would tell you that they aren't an interfering or constraining presence. Turns out they are people just like you and me. Turns out they have high hopes for our alliance. I'd say they are proud of the work they've done and are proud of the progress we've made. Thus, we come to the key distinction of what their role is now. Are they there for simply !@#$% and giggles as it seems to be proposed? I wouldn't say so. Anyone who has been in a position of leadership in GATO knows how much of a struggle that can be Are they necessary? Probably not. I think we have a few things left to prove to them and, as well, to ourselves. Nothing grandiose, but things we'd like to see. At least that is my take. Believe me, we all want to be our own alliance. And we'll get our freedom. We are our own judges. And while I admire the concern (whether dubious or not) of the world community as to our status, it has, and always will be, our own decision. Call it what you will, but the world community does not have a say in this. And frankly, we and our allies fought a long war that was wholly one-sided. Our future will be in our hands where it is meant to be. Niceties aside, we can handle our own business. People can talk all they want. We're the only ones who have to do the legwork. -Kev Also Chim & IAA

Yeah, you totally caught us on that one. NPO is teh ebil and they sent all their eye candy to us to keep us complacent (baka, Mari, Cortath, SDRD...well...not so much SDRD ). They knew we were a sucker for a pretty face! Oh you clever Pacificans And NPO probably wants to end the viceroyship at some point because the position is cursed. We've already gone through like two viceroys B) On a more serious note, I think we as an alliance know NPO better than most people do. We've had a rather interesting relationship. Despite our long history, many realize that it is in the past. The dynamics of the relationship have, quite obviously, changed. Those responsible for rebuilding our alliance don't want to be here forever. They'd rather be devoting their time and effort to NPO. The length of their stay will be wholly determined by the resolve of GATOans. Personally, I'd say we're damn close. -Kev

First there was nothing. And then there was Das. And then all was sweet Bunch of youngsters in here. GATO: May 24, 2006 - April 13, 2007 (minus like a week) VV (WITH VERC o/): May 12, 2007 - September 3, 2007 (I think) GATO: September 3, 2007 - Present GATO -Kev

I don't think that anyone necessarily wants a Viceroy. We have one regardless. The question is whether the Viceroy is beneficial or detrimental to our well-being. In which case, I'd say they've been of great help to us and with their help we've been seeing steady growth since the war's end. Obviously it would be ideal to witness bountiful growth on our own accord, but we have to work with what we have, not with what we wish to have. The Viceroy team is not an imposing one nor one that has constrained us. While there will always be the basic distinction between having full control over our alliance or not, they aren't an imposing factor and have been quite helpful. I actually wouldn't mind if a few of them stuck around for a bit (we're kidnapping baka) For as long as our history with Pacifica has been and as violent as our clashes have been, I would say the responsibility they have shown in regard to our alliance has been rather level-headed and quite considerate to our community's practices. It will be a relief when we are released from the terms, but not in the sense that we will be glad to be rid of them. Simply that we will be happy to have accomplished our sovereignty. They have done a lot to help us progress, and I don't think we will forget that anytime soon. It's easy to not fully understand the situation from an outsider's perspective. I believe we all appreciate the support that has been given, but we ultimately have control of our destiny and our resolve will bring us to our destination more so than any other factor. -Kev

I tried to delete Manis_B. I'm still trying. >_> -Kev PS- Also, putting viruses on all your nations.