neneko

[quote name='chefjoe' timestamp='1300395804' post='2668134'] Honestly my guess is that one of the reasons(among many im sure) they are hesitant to trust MK revolves around Karma and how effectively Archon set NPO and others up in the beginning of that war thru, if not deceit, then misdirection. Hard to step out on the trust plank again after past histories of manipulation are present. just my .02 [/quote] Who were deceived or misdirected in karma by Archon?

[quote name='Hadrian' timestamp='1300395767' post='2668133'] Your "peace terms" are actually "war terms". [/quote] Call them what you will. They are very simple terms to end the war. You didn't address my point. Since it obviously went over your head I'll simplify it a bit for you. How is this situation different from any other war? If terms cannot be agreed upon the war will naturally continue. Hopefully we'll come to an agreement sometime before we hit eternity.

[quote name='Hadrian' timestamp='1300395253' post='2668118'] The worst case scenario is playing out right now. Doom House has made it quite clear that Pacifica must face a war before any conclusion is brought about. If Pacifica does not come out of peace mode (which I suspect they won't) then Doom House will continue to remain in an aggressive stance towards them until they do (IF they ever do). If that isn't a progenitor for eternal war, then I don't know what is. [/quote] If peace terms cannot be agreed upon the war continues. This is true for every war.

[quote name='Ryan Greenberg' timestamp='1300389682' post='2667999'] Maybe the elite thinks of Karma in that light, but the majority wanted to end this kind of Hegemonic !@#$. It is pretty clear at this point that Karma was never a war to end the crimes of Pacifica. It was a grudge war. Simple as that. Enjoy your time as top dog DH. Think of this war as NPO's noCB. People won't forget. You won't survive the next. [/quote] But if you'd attack us for this war you'd be just as bad as us. How will we ever solve this dilemma?

[quote name='janax' timestamp='1300388426' post='2667976'] Actually, I believe NPO's terms were "Come out of peace mode and fight for two weeks. AFTER that we shall discuss peace terms." In this instance, peace terms are already set. Come out and fight, and you can walk away once those 28, 30 or 31 days are over, depending on which month they decide to base this off of. [/quote] Way to go. Now we're stuck in this war until february.

[quote name='Thrash' timestamp='1300387940' post='2667970'] And this reason is any more justified? [/quote] At the very least I'd say it's more honest.

[quote name='Doitzel' timestamp='1300387431' post='2667955'] Oh, of course he doesn't. [url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=99990&view=findpost&p=2667140]But Ardus does.[/url] [/quote] Naturally. We'll see if we stick by that or if we think of something new in a month or two. Until then they do in fact have a very simple way out of the war though so I still don't see how this makes this war "eternal". Maybe we can at least let pacifica reject this suggestion before we decide this war is eternal.

[quote name='Doitzel' timestamp='1300386551' post='2667934'] Oh I don't think it's unreasonable really. I'd much rather Pacific accepted it, but that's not looking very likely. My only concern is the repeatedly expressed sentiment that the only alternative is, in your comrade's words, for NPO to "stop playing". [/quote] I don't think he speaks for mk as a whole. I'm sure there are a lot of people in mk that would like for npo to be kept in perpetual war. I'm pretty sure the same holds true for npo about mk. In fact there are several people in npo that have said that they would want to see us gone from bob. I don't pretend that they speak for npo as a whole though. By pretending that select posts from ordinary members in mk represents the whole alliance you just keep feigning ignorance that I am at least fairly sure you don't have. [quote name='Maelstrom Vortex' timestamp='1300386738' post='2667937'] *chuckles* If I wanted to waste my precious time proving what I already know to be fact from experience, I'd invest the time in scrounging the forum and posting data to rebut your argument. Fortunately, I have other more important things to tend to than such a pointless search. If others wish to take up the task in showing you that you are wrong, I'll allow them. I'm not putting any of my own time into it however. [/quote] I'm sure finding a single example won't take too much of your precious time. There are so many instances after all. Alternatively you could just admit that your claim doesn't really contain any real facts and that you just used your own party line to the degree that you actually think it's true. Don't worry it's not like you'd be the most sheepish pacifican.

[quote name='Maelstrom Vortex' timestamp='1300386333' post='2667928'] Hah! HAHAHAHHAHAH! Are you kidding me? You and your proxies falsify data consistently on this forum and you're saying you're better than us because you have your word?! HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH! Where do I tip you for the comedy? [/quote] Yes I find it very funny too. Despite how obvious it apparently is I don't seem to be able to find anyone that can give an answer to the question. Can you? Oh and "my superior officer told me so" doesn't really cut it.

[quote name='Doitzel' timestamp='1300384695' post='2667871'] It is if you don't... wait, what were the words? Clearly NPO has rejected your terms, so yes, I suppose it goes on. The question is, for how long? Tick-tock. And I have to 'accept' no such thing: the only such alliances who would push an indefinite war rather than present reasonable terms of surrender are the oppressive types I've put a lot of effort into toppling. Surrenders should be [i]negotiated[/i], not forced under the threat of eternal war. [/quote] I know you're not as dumb as you pretend to be here, you know how peace negotiations go. The first offer haven't even been rejected yet so I think it's a little early to say that this is the only offer there will ever be if it's not accepted. I don't see how actually fighting the war is a unreasonable demand though but each to his own I guess. [quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1300384424' post='2667868'] so should we expect an apology from DH after this war finally concludes? [/quote] Already done. [quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1300384424' post='2667868'] Draconiac Reps/Long-ass terms. Preemptive attacks. Might Makes Right attitude. Arrogance in the extreme. MK-centric attitude. This very set of terms for peace. is that clear enough? MK has become more of an NPO-Lite than you could ever claim Polaris to be. They have modeled themselves, in terms of attitude, directly after Pacifica of yore. i am sure there are more but i don't feel like digging through the forums or rummaging my mind to find them. ((ooc: am studying for a midterm while i peruse the forums)) [/quote] That is a great argument as to why mk is the new npo it really is. My question was when we broke our word though.

[quote name='Ivan Moldavi' timestamp='1300381697' post='2667828'] What answer is that? That Karma was initiated (and indeed named) as an attempt to stop the injustice of the great and horrible NPO in their ongoing oppression of the Cyberverse? That the imposing of restrictive peace terms and calls for disbandment and attempts to hold alliances in perpetual wars was so inhumane that you had to act in the interests of the smaller alliances of the Cyberverse and set yourselves up as martyrs and heroes for the befuddled masses? You mean things like that? Issues that fly directly in the face of hubris filled comments like the OP in which terms that are more or less equivalent to "fight the war our way right now or face war forever" are included? Okay. [/quote] Karma was a war to stop npo. The promises of a world without any evil and any surrender terms were words put in our mouth by the opposition. We didn't engage in that war to become a world police that would rid the world of any evil, we have no right to do that in the first place. We wanted to stop npo and we did just that. Have you really chanted the propaganda from the karma war so much that you actually think you didn't make it up or is it just used again now that it once more fits your purpose? [quote name='Doitzel' timestamp='1300382845' post='2667840'] You sort of ignored me when I pointed out that your alliance appears to be pushing the envelope toward a perpetual war to keep NPO down. I mean, [/quote] I saw your post. I did not however realize that you were actually serious about that. A month of war with no reps is not eternal war. If you're still going to push the issue with that the alternative to coming out of peacemode would be to have the war continue then you also have to accept that any alliance that have ever issued any demands for a war to end is guilty of the same thing. If an agreement can't be met the war will continue, it's not as hegemonic as you try to make it seem.

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1300380967' post='2667821'] May be because MK has a recent history of doing exactly the same things they were against previously? [/quote] This 'point' brought up once again and once again I think I going to have to leave without a answer to what this ill defined past is that haunts us. Seriously if you people are going to use this as a party line can't you humor me with a answer so it seems like at least you think it's a valid point and not something you made up yourself.

Once again our huge shady past is brought up and once again I find myself asking, what exactly is it that we've lied so much about? I realize that NPO and friends might not be quick to trust us seeing as we're currently at war and that's a great reason but I don't really get where all these unspecified lies in our past comes from. From what I recall we've always been pretty upfront about our intentions.

[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1300374249' post='2667722'] Eternal war one of the 2 choices you are forcing on them [/quote] This is the worst rhetoric I've ever seen and I've seen a lot of your posts. [quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1300374396' post='2667725'] Unlike MK we have standards, we dont pre-emptively attack alliances because we are paranoid or bored. [/quote] That's news to me. Weren't you the guy that brought up the baps war before?

[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1300374083' post='2667719'] LOL, If not attacking is the sign of a coward and your leader wants us dead years what does that say about MK? [/quote] I thought we already established that we are cowards. We didn't even go 1v1 on NPO. What's your excuse?

[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1300373419' post='2667707'] Cowards that you are you wont be fighting alone amirite [/quote] I'd say that pitting our 200 nations against 500+ would be more dumb than brave. If you really want a 1 on 1 I'm sure we'd be up for one with BAPS after this war is over. If you manage to talk your brave alliance into it I'm sure the mk gov won't be too hard to convince. Unless of course you're all cowards with big mouths.

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1300368590' post='2667635'] o/ The Resistance, fight on fellow freedom fighters! [/quote] [quote name='pezstar' timestamp='1300372521' post='2667695'] So make them fight the war they started. [/quote] This is actually exactly what we suggested.

[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1300372642' post='2667697'] They lied after karma and they are lying again [/quote] Since this point is brought up a lot I'm just curious, what promises did we make during karma that we broke exactly?

[quote name='berbers' timestamp='1300357716' post='2667564'] This is bad and Doomhouse should feel bad. Not because of the war, but because of the pointless drivel their PR department is spinning out. NPO isn't whining on the forums about everything, yet every two minutes I see another DH + Friends post about hippie NPOans, etc. You guys pre-empted, deal with the war, stop crying that NPO won't play by your rules. [/quote] This forum you speak of where NPO isn't whining, where would it be located?

[quote name='Varianz' timestamp='1300348224' post='2667479'] NSO has nations who have not yet fought. Can we too expect a demand that we expose them to a month of being stomped? [/quote] I can obviously not speak for the government but I'd be surprised to see any heavy terms on NSO. The fact that you have actually fought this war have not gone unnoticed in the kingdom at least. edit: Actually think I misread your post but I'll just leave my comment there anyway.

[quote name='O-Dog' timestamp='1300322460' post='2666767'] Your history. All that [i]this[/i] GOONS [i]that[/i] GOONS doesn't hold water. [/quote] All these claims of water retainment problems. You'd think there would be much less of that when you're allied to such a good and handsome plumber.

[quote name='Finch' timestamp='1300318867' post='2666729'] Is top still sad about what happened holy I guess those 50 boxes of tissues cant get to them fast enough, VE & Co you should give me permission to sell them to top asap [/quote] Is this really an area polar want to go to when we're all subjected to grubs rants about stuff nobody even remembers on a weekly basis? To his credit he usually make sure to mention in those rants that he doesn't actually care. It's a little hard to believe the last part when he probably used up more paper than a nation at my size could produce in a year on those whiny ramblings though.

To be fair those are really funny logs. [quote]<Kevanovia> I watched The Catalyst music video, and it gave me an urge to make us an overly aggressive alliance. We could all wear gas mask avatars and get up and yell "FREEDOM!"[/quote] I can't see how this could fail.

[quote name='William Bonney' timestamp='1300296536' post='2666532'] Funny that 1,2 and 5 are missing [/quote] Nice catch. The NPO brain trust never fails to amaze.

[quote name='wickedj' timestamp='1300222343' post='2665773'] Least classy victors ever. shameful [/quote] Could you point to me where the pc members have not been classy in this thread? They've shown a lot more class than RoK if you ask me. Pathetic arguing of semantics and cheap potshots at pc sure is classy.