Magicman657

[quote name='Aeros' timestamp='1353008628' post='3052924'] I'm not buying this. I can't speak for TPF, but I seriously doubt they would let an MDP level ally get rolled because one of their members is pissed at who is actually in charge and starts causing problems for his alliance. So the only alliances who would roll all of UE the moment HoT launched his little crusade would be ones who seriously want to trigger a massive war over what is honestly a pretty silly affair. Doubly silly since GATO is also an MDP ally of TPF. Which is why I find the chest thumping a little schizophrenic. [/quote] I will not elaborate, but rest assured that TPF would be well, well justified in any action they chose to take under those circumstances and I would not blame them.one bit.

[img]http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110830055508/cybernations/images/0/07/Ponyflag_candidate1_announcementsize.jpg[/img] Greetings. I am Magicman657, Princess Regnant of United Equestria. It has come to my attention that a few individuals took it upon themselves to try and harm our wonderful little alliance. It is true that the alliance has struggled lately due to several unfortunate personnel losses and it's been difficult to try to plan around that. However, UE is not dead and we do not tolerate attempts to violate the sovreignty of the alliance. What you need to know is the following: #1, I am still the rightful leader of the alliance and I will continue to act in such capacity until such a time as I see fit to appoint a replacement (which if or when that would happen would be accompanied by an official public statement here). #2, Shimanaka (IRC - Benzene) is no longer a member of United Equestria. For all intents and purposes, Benzene is now considered an enemy of United Equestria for treasonous acts against the alliance. His actions are to be considered as that of a rogue. #3, Herooftime55 (IRC - Celly) has not been a member of United Equestria for quite some time. He was removed many weeks ago due to a completely different set of circumstances relating solely to the operation and security of the alliance. Herooftime55 is NOT a member and is certainly not Princess of UE despite any claim made otherwise. For all intents and purposes, Herooftime55 is now considered an enemy of United Equestria for violating the sovreignty of the alliance. Due to the widespread implications of their actions, it should be noted that UE, along with Argent, TPF, and GATO have reserved the rights to lay waste to the nations owned by both Shimanaka and Herooftime55. I do not know what the future of UE holds. I wish very much for the spirit of our alliance to remain alive and well, and I will enact whatever plans given our circumstances will help us in that regard. Other than that, I make no promises. All I can say is that I will continue to do my best to act in the best interests of both our alliance and our allies, whom have all been wonderfully supportive during these difficult times. Sincerely, Magicman657 Princess Regnant of United Equestria

Dragons and ponies: The two most awesome creatures to ever exist. A more deadly yet friendly combination there exists not.

[center][img]http://www.64digits.com/users/HeroofTime55/ponyflag_candidate1_announcementsize.png[/img] An Official Announcement from United Equestria[/center] United Equestria prides itself on providing tech deals to all of our friends and allies, so it has been our policy to try and restrict tech dealing to a very specific list of alliances so that there are enough deals for everyone and as such, our members are discouraged from sending or accepting aid offers to or from anyone who is not a member of an alliance on our whitelist. Such outside deals are viewed as "under the table" and therefore no compensation for failure to complete the deal is guaranteed by UE. While this has been an internal practice for a while now, we feel it would be appropriate to formally codify this practice and announce it to the world. By the Royal Authority of the Princess Regnant, United Equestria enacts the [url=http://cybernations.64digits.com/ponies/index.php?topic=1393.0]following new policy[/url]: [quote]Any member of a non-approved alliance who sends unsolicited financial aid offers to member states of United Equestria, with the intent to initiate a tech deal or other financial transaction, will be considered to have made a donation to United Equestria. Each nation fitting the above description, and who makes unsolicited donations to member states of United Equestria, agrees and consents that they are making a charitable donation to said member states of United Equestria, regardless of any statements filed in the "Foreign Aid Reason" field or any preceding or subsequent unsolicited private messages, and that they neither expect nor demand any return of technology for their generous donations. This alliance policy overrides any unsolicited contracts offered by donor states, regardless of the agreement, explicit or otherwise, of United Equestria member states. A list of alliances approved for tech dealing may be found [url=http://cybernations.64digits.com/ponies/index.php?topic=467.0][HERE][/url]. Parties wishing to be added to the list of approved alliances may contact the Government of United Equestria with their application. Any accepted aid offers falling under this policy may be eligible for a refund at the discretion of United Equestria; Concerned individuals may post an application for review on our forums [url=http://cybernations.64digits.com/ponies/index.php?board=121.0][HERE][/url] [/quote] United Equestria takes no responsibility in informing every individual state outside of our borders, and trusts that interested foreign governments will perform the due diligence to inform their member states of our new policy. We apologize for any inconvenience, with the notice that United Equestria asserts that unsolicited offers of the pertinent nature are violations of our sovereignty, due to the noted impact they have on our normative economic functionality, and that we will not inhibit the operation of our financial actions and interactions to address wide-scale violations of our sovereignty. Thank you for your time. [i]Signed, Magicman657, Princess Regnant HeroofTime55, Chancellor Legatus Equus, Minister of Love and Tolerance Corah Il Cappo, Minister of Foreign Affairs chachonimrod, Minister of Internal Affairs Chezik, Deputy Minister of Internal Affairs [/i]

[quote name='Roxas' timestamp='1329671220' post='2924083'] Magic has a pretty lame avatar >_> Needs more Ponies [/quote] Magus has been my avatar for longer than I can remember. However, I am inclined to agree. Your wish has been granted.

I'll keep this as short and sweet as I can. It is my great honor to preside over the wonderful alliance that is United Equestria. Never in my CN career have I ever encountered such wonderful and caring people as I have here, and since August of last year I've done my best to help it grow. Herooftime has done amazing things for this alliance and we simply cannot thank him enough for his hard work. I will do my best to uphold the ideals that UE was founded on and bring our unique perspectives to all of CN so that one day everyone may come to know and love all things pony. With that, our current government is as follows: Princess Regnant: Magicman657 Princess Consort: Bacon God Chancellor: HeroofTime55 Royal Advisors: Kitsune, HeroofTime55, Amonisis Minister of Defense: Legatus Equus Deputy Minister of Defense: Zephyr Lite Minister of Foreign Affairs: Corah Il Cappo Minister of Internal Affairs: Chachonimrod Deputy Minister of Internal Affairs: Chezik o/ UE!

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1327983609' post='2911291'] I'll do 9 mill (one slot for 3 cycles, 2 if they have an FAC) to the nation of your choice if United Equestria donates more, the same to the nation of my choice if MK donates more. [/quote] I will gladly throw up 9 mil of my own nation's cash in addition to whatever deal you strike with Herooftime if anyone would like to match me.

[quote name='bros2' timestamp='1327975609' post='2911143'] As to which alliance raises more? 200 is a rather low bet. [/quote] Our Glorious Leader (o7) is actually funding that bet entirely out of his own nation's pocket. Perhaps their leaders could do the same?

Now that the war is over, Sparta is welcome to have some of our actual baked goods; no more baked bads, we promise! [img]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-koJ2gPg6uas/TZ3eBPY872I/AAAAAAAAAOI/7vvl8DPoLJw/s1600/1xqddsx937brhckgogk.png[/img]

I've been seeing this little message come up when I attempt to visit a bunch of the topics in the Boiler Room. I'm using Google Chrome. Is this a legitimate concern / do we have any idea why that might be coming up? [IMG]http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h260/Magicman657/Cyber%20Nations/boilerroom.png[/IMG]

[quote name='Pingu' timestamp='1323750134' post='2876139'] I'm not sure anyone thinks you will easily be driven from the planet. It's just that much of the international community wants to hurt you. [/quote] That's ok, we still wub them.

I'm not sure I understand why everyone seems to think that someone attacking us would automatically make us leave CN. You can't make our alliance disappear because our alliance is made of friends that like ponies, not infrastructure.

[quote name='Roxas' timestamp='1323582594' post='2873345'] Should of been called Epic Cupcake Time >_> Anyways go get them [/quote] You're lucky I think of everything. [IMG]http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h260/Magicman657/photoshop/pinkie-bacon.jpg[/IMG]

It's not my fault that my blogs end up getting so popular This probably gets more attention than the thread though since the link is always visible on the side (because apparently very few people write blogs anymore :\) Instr, you have some valid points. I'd still say that both player retention and obtaining them are important, though, and that's what matters. We could debate the semantics of which matters more but ultimately you're going to need both things for the game to thrive as it once did. I whole heartedly agree that the tech issue is more important than the wonder issue. I brought up both points though because I wanted to show two things- that seniority affects more than just 1 part of the game, and that the problems are fundamentally different in nature. The wonders affect the "grinding" period of the game. As it stands, to have them all collected takes a minimum of 2.5 years, which means it will take that amount of time for a new player to be "equal" to an older player (at least in that specific regard). I mentioned that because out of all the game's I've played, 2.5 years just for the grinding period of the game seems ridiculously long to me. For example, if I were to play a game like Diablo 2 and grind a character up to level 99, it would take no more than a few months, not years. Of course just getting to 99 isn't the entirety of the game (as then you still need to find loot for your character), nor is is 100% necessary, but to have a truly equal duel between two players they'd both need to be the same level. With that in mind, that's why I proposed removing the wonder clock because it would turn that nasty 2.5 year grinding phase into something closer to 1 year. Of course, an alternative (that I don't necessarily agree with but for the sake of argument) if we want to adjust this grinding phase would be to keep the clock but make it like 15 or 20 days instead of 30. However, the grinding period isn't the REAL problem. The most brutal part of CN is the tech system because it creates shifting goalposts. Meaning, that no matter how long a nation grinds for (even an infinitely long period of time), a new nation will NEVER be able to get higher NS than me as long as I keep importing tech every 10 days. In fact, because being able to buy nukes relies on being in the top x percentage of nations, there will eventually be a point where it's FASTER to buy all the wonders in the game (thus having a manhattan project) than to hit that 10% (or whatever it currently is; I don't know off the top of my head). This makes grinding NS a progressively longer task every day that goes by as the average NS of nations will continue to rise and it will make a new nation take that much longer just to reach a mildly decent NS. That's why I keep coming back to this idea of design. While there's only so much we can do outside of the game as far as players are concerned, we CAN control the way the game is built, and the best thing we can do is to make it as attractive as possible by analyzing the design flaws and figuring out how to redesign each system in the game so that CN becomes more fun and fair for everyone.

[quote name='Locke' timestamp='1316208931' post='2801767'] If you've been on the same network even once the flag stays. Using the same phone network doesn't guarantee a flag, but the pool of IP's handed out is probably smaller than that of an ISP's, making getting the same one more likely. If you have reason to believe that you've been flagged at any point, don't risk trading as a second offense may be met with deletion instead of just a canceled trade. [/quote] Is it really reasonable for us to be expected to know every single place we've ever logged into for 4+ years? I know I don't and I have the same concerns as the OP- I think I might have once been on the same network as my friend who is out of state at college and I really don't remember if that actually happened. Yet I'd like to be able to trade with him for reasons of convenience and security to my alliance. It would be really helpful if we could see some kind of indicator BEFOREHAND that says "Do not trade or aid with this nation", which shouldn't be difficult if all of the ips are actually logged.

[quote name='Cager' timestamp='1316239060' post='2802081'] is this a serious alliance I hope it isn't. [/quote] It has been for a month now. Where were you? Also come join our party!

[quote name='Ashoka the Great' timestamp='1316225010' post='2801900'] Each day I pray for your death. Every goddamn one of you. [/quote] We love you too.

This is great input guys. I'm really enjoying reading all these different viewpoints, and my hope is that by the time this post dies, we have a good idea of what we should be doing. So maybe seniority isn't the biggest issue after all. I still think that it has some negative side effects that deserve to be looked at, but that's not the real point of this entry. Let's then try to look at it as two tasks. 1, We need to bring in new players. Word has to reach new untapped areas (like UE did with Ponychan). This means more active recruitment on everybody's part and more advertisement. It also means that alliances have to WANT more new players, which I have no idea if that works into everyone's overall plans. 2, We need to keep the players here once they get here. It's in this category that all the gameplay balance and whatnot goes, and where I think the seniority effects might start coming into play. Note that the gameplay stuff is only a section of this goal, as some people will leave once here because of reasons outside the game (not being an influential alliance leader, real life obligations, etc). I will be focusing on the gamplay aspect though since it's something we definitely CAN do something about. I'm going to cite Diablo 2 (or World of Warcraft if you prefer, it applies all the same) as my example games. While a lot of games do reward seniority, it's usually through a combination of grinding and luck. The grinding often has some kind of cap associated with it- you level up to max level (which can take a few weeks to a few months depending on the game), but after that initial grinding period it then becomes a game of luck- usually in the form of items. Some items are outright better than others, but usually not so much that it makes everything else completely unusable and not competitive. Still, if you put in the time, you'll eventually come across that one item that gives you the extra edge which might make the difference in a duel between two players of the exact same skill. I think that's a decent design strategy- the game is then roughly equal for everyone, but there's still an element of strategy and luck. How could we do this? First, remove the 30 day cap for wonders. That reduces the grinding period from a 2.5 years down to something closer to 1 year (though reaching the infra and tech caps might still take longer depending on optimizations and how much aid you end up getting). 1 year minimum is way long for the grinding period as it is. Find some way to effectively "cap" technology in the same manner as infra or land so that its not worth it for nations with tons of tech to continue buying it. Then, add in the luck element of developing. This could be as simple as a set of [positive only] events where you gain like 100 land / 100 tech /100 infra (found the remains of an old civilization under your capital! ) or something of that sort. Get them on average once every month or two (every nation has a chance at these) so that nations can continue to make gains even when the cost to buy stuff wouldn't pay itself off for years. This then naturally lends itself to a new idea, call it "Investments", which you could buy for some amount of in game money to raise your chances of finding something. Part 1 may very likely be more of a factor than Part 2. I don't have the statistics to prove or disprove that. Still, they are both valid reasons and I'd love to hear your suggestions for how to address this kind of thing.

[quote name='Bob Ilyani' timestamp='1316148105' post='2801339'] Basically this. Get HoT out and I don't really care what you guys do. [/quote] Has it ever occurred to you that's why we WANT Hero to be our leader? Hero has been working tirelessly to make sure this alliance grows internally and externally. In fact, we all have. What you should realize by this point is that we are here to stay and you can either embrace it or be sickened by it. We'll love you either way.

Ashoka - It's not about not being able to start buying wonders in 4 months, it's that the time limit is an artificial implementation that prevents people from getting to the same level as everyone else for a minimum of 2.5 years (plus that initial 0-4 months and however many days they were not able to buy on schedule due to things like, missing trades, etc). I don't know that I'm necessarily ok with that, but because it is actually achievable as opposed to the tech issue, it's not quite as important. MrMuz - You have a very legitimate point and I also think that is a part of the reason as well, but that's something that's not directly game related and really there's not too much that can be done about it, which is why I've chosen to focus on things that CAN be addressed. There's no denying that you need time to learn and get your name out there before you can rise to a position of importance within an alliance. It also tends to work better in democratic groups as you have the chance on a regular basis to campaign and get to know the people that will be voting for you, as opposed to the dictatorship type alliances where moving up takes a really long time. And yea, we do want to find a way to keep the senior players interested, but at the same time, doing it by keeping an eternal seemingly or completely impassible barrier between them and the new nations doesn't seem like the right way to me. I don't know what the answer is, but I'm pretty sure that's not it. My hope is that someone will come up with a suggestion that addresses both issues. New Frontier - We've already passed the point where that would have a significant effect. We're down from ~40,000 members to ~17,000 (someone can correct me if this is slightly off but it's close enough) and sticking our heads in the sand isn't going to make it any better. In fact, we have plenty of evidence that this doesn't work (see previous sentence). If we want to get back up to 40,000+ we need to start looking at the reasons why those people left and find out which of them can be fixed. Obviously not every reason can be because not every reason has to do with in-game factors, but the ones that do really need to be looked at closely else we will continue to see people leave for those reasons.

Someone had posted a topic about trying to figure out what's driving players away from CN and after responding, I thought it would make a good blog entry. If you've been following along, you'll know that there's good reason to believe the not-TE resource system (which admin has stated will be fixed, yaaaay!) was definitely a contributing factor, but I'm sure we all know it's not the ONLY factor. Thus, I sat and thought about it for a bit and I came up with this answer. The first step is always to try and identify the problem, and in this case, it seems to be Seniority. However, it's a hard one to fix, because it's not a direct, in game problem like the resource issue. Seniority manifests itself in many different forms, but I think we can agree that two of the biggest ones are through [Wonders] and [Technology]. While it might seem like removing the 30 day waiting period for wonders might at least somewhat address that part (which I will be considering and possibly crusading for at some point in the near future), the technology issue is a lot more complicated and there isn't an easy answer to it like there was with resources. If we want to revitalize CN, we'll need to give it some thought and come up with a good system that preserves the player cooperation aspects of tech dealing while also addressing the never ending benefits of toasters problem. So just how do we remove or at least limit the effects of seniority? Start by looking at the biggest problems caused by it. Once we can agree that it's a problem (which it IS, there's no denying that), we can work on ideas that can address it. So with this in mind, I ask you to think about it. Tell others about it. Brainstorm up some ideas. Just, whatever you do, don't ignore the issue and expect it to resolve itself, or even worse, absolutely don't deny that seniority is hurting CN. If you want to shoot down an idea, that's fine, but I challenge you to come up with an alternative that still fixes the problem. The first step is always to recognize the issue at hand and we need to start giving this some serious consideration for the good of the game. ~Magicman657

You are entirely correct- the biggest issue with the game is that seniority is key. With the resource problem finally addressed, we will need to start looking at ways to address the seniority based problems. The two biggest ones are wonders and tech. Just to collect all the wonders, it would take a new nation a MINIMUM of 2 and a half years, and that's assuming that they buy one every 30 days starting on the day they create their nation. 2.5 years just to be on the same collection level as me. Now, this is balanced by the fact that most wonders take a long time to pay for themselves, but still, the fact that I have that much more of a boost than any new nation is terrifying. It's not quite as bad as tech though since it's rare that new wonders are introduced, so the goal is actually reachable even if it takes years to do it. An easy way to reduce that 2.5 years to something more reasonable like maybe 1 year would be to just remove the 30 day period and just let nations be limited by their daily taxes. Tech is probably our biggest problem though. It is literally impossible for a new nation to ever get anywhere NEAR bridging the gap that separates our highest NS nations from them because there is no limit to how much tech you can import. The thing is, because [toasters] function equally as well as [highly developed space telescopes] in terms of CN technology, tech can be bought at a flat rate all the time and there is no theoretical cap that prevents old nations from acquiring more tech. Imagine if everyone had to buy his or her own tech (or that importing [toasters] was less effective than importing or buying [highly developed space telescopes]). There would be at least some point at which nation would cease buying technology, because it wouldn't be worth the money spent on it, thus effectively capping it and making it at least POSSIBLE for a new nation to catch up (even if it took years). As it stands, the older CN gets, the harder it is for a new player to ever become relevant because on average, more CN players progress to higher NS's than fight & lose NS. That's a large part of why we lose people- they see it as futile and pointless to even try to develop to be the best, and the scary thing is they're actually correct, it is impossible for them to reach the shifting goalposts created due to these seniority based issues.

[quote name='Dexios' timestamp='1314161279' post='2787503'] Thanks for the input, Magicman657. The major problem with my current resources is [b][Pig][/b] as it won't fit nicely into a 5BR, 7BR, or 8BR set. That inflexibility would confine my nation into a 3BR trade circle or set up. Although 3BR is arguably the best balanced trade set up in the game, with the best balance between high income boost and high infrastructure buying and upkeep power, also with good wildcard flexibility; I consider confining my nation to a 3BR set-up to the exclusion of other popular set-ups as unacceptable. Even if I end up with worse resource combinations such as [Fur] and [Rubber], I'm willing to re-roll again and again and again until the random number generator gives Uranium + a 3BR/5BR/7BR/8BR resource combination. However, the evidence suggests that having ideal trade resources perhaps is irrelevant to a nation's long-term success. Contrary to one's expectations, many of CN's top nations have less than ideal resources: #1 Hime Themis of Dulra | 350k NS | Order of the Black Rose | [Fur] and [Silver] #3 FISHGUTS of FISHGUTS | 261k NS | World Task Force | [Wine] and [Gold] #12 Asa Phillips of Malto | 218k NS | World Task Force | [Fish] and [Rubber] At the end, Magicman, I agree with you that the resource random distribution is seriously flawed as you pointed out in your signature's link. I like Option 1 better as it provides an interesting dynamic to the resource system, which I consider to be the most boring, unfair, and frustrating part of the game under the current set up. But unless this deeply flawed resource system gets fixed within 10 days or so, it seems very likely that I'll be heading off to delete my current nation and re-roll. Ugh [/quote] You'll be more than fine with a 3BR, trust me. Having a good set of resources over along period of time is better than having the best for a few weeks and losing trades for another few weeks. Also, I would highly encourage you to take what you said there and post it in the thread with my suggestion. I know there are many people who want to see the system changed asap and that can only happen if we concentrate our attention on it.

[quote name='HK47' timestamp='1313885792' post='2785370'] This thread is not about Mogar's sexual preferences. You meatbags are disgusting. Knock it off and get back on topic. [/quote] Check. [quote name='jerdge' timestamp='1314015317' post='2786132'] To the OP: this thread is an accurate picture of every day life on CN. I hope you like it (it's actually fun). [/quote] This. [quote name='Ejayrazz' timestamp='1314073753' post='2786635'] $%&@, if mogar looks good in a skirt I'll hit on him too bro. [/quote] Also check. [quote name='Ashoka the Great' timestamp='1314097461' post='2786766'] Some of us celebrate Scotchtoberfest. The booze is still amber-hued, but much more economical in terms of input/effect. Also, since many of our members have seen naked females in person without paying for the privilege or relying on the internet, we're less likely to obsess about the presence of someone possessing double-x chromosomes. At least that's what I tell women. Once they sign up I'm all "Show me your boobs! PM pics to me! You can trust me!" Wait....did I just say that out loud? Aw, crap. I should certainly hope so. The place hasn't been the same since Normal Hale Gareth departed. [/quote] Yep. Also, miss those days too. [quote name='Wargarden' timestamp='1314108056' post='2786812'] Jesus, someone raid her before she gets in an alliance. Have you $%&@wits totally forgotten how to play this game? [/quote] Ah, the system at work, a classic. Drive away any new players who dare to even speak! Flawless! [quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1314116096' post='2786876'] Hello! Do you like Ponies? [/quote] this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this this [quote name='Thorgrum' timestamp='1314133785' post='2787109'] This, delete and look elsewhere. You will never recoup the time you waste here and you will never forgive yourself for wasting it. However if you enjoy watching 50-75 people repeat the same things for years, then by all means expend your time resources into CN, you'll love it. [/quote] I've invested far too much time at this point to even consider that anymore. [quote name='Ironfist' timestamp='1314164117' post='2787527'] Good job CN, that was close. [/quote] [quote name='jerdge' timestamp='1314175097' post='2787579'] We're not learning, are we? [/quote] You'd think after what, 5 years at least, we might but nope. [quote name='Mr flubb' timestamp='1314192797' post='2787639'] No, we already learned. Obviously we just dont like cowards who say this game looks awesome and then retreat after someone raids or insults them. We want players who will start giant flame wars and create drama.... or at least act as a punching bag for everyone elses drama. [/quote] So... you'd rather have 1 Walford rather than 1,000 new recruits that might behave like normal people?

One of my new favorite pastimes now is to write letters to my alliance leader, Princess Regnant Herooftime55, and post them on the United Equestria forums. Last night on our channel some interesting things happened that spawned a facebook status and a letter. I will share them below so you can have just a tiny glimpse into the insanity that is United Equestria (lol). One thing I will say, if ship-shipping is not a real thing, it SHOULD be. Status ------ So because I got tired of people shipping ponies in United Equestria's irc channel, another member and I started a parody "ship shipping" in which the Titanic and the Britanic got romantically involved, and the Britanic actually directed the Titanic into an iceberg (spoiler if you haven't seen Titanic) for insurance money. Yea. Letter ------ Dear Princess Herooftime, Today I learned a valuable lesson about love. Love comes in many different types and can be between many different types of creatures, be they ponies, animals, or even large metallic ships, but the one thing that remains constant is the feeling between them. Your love for your friends will guide you through dark patches of life where you need somepony to rely on and be there for you. Your family love will always reassure you and let you know that no matter where you end up, there will always be a place you can call home with ponies that truly care about you. Then there is also romantic love, which can only be described by experience. No matter what kind of love it is, you should always be careful with whom you share it. While love is an amazing thing to share with somepony, it leaves you vulnerable and so it should be exercised with the utmost caution (lest someship takes out a life insurance policy on you, seduces you, and directs you to an icy grave)! I know that I will always have many different kinds of love in my life and that I am so very lucky to have it! Your Faithful Student, Magicman657