x Tela x

[quote name='Diabloz' timestamp='1305146329' post='2710227'][center][img]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_2kjisMm3M9Y/SV09yIgMfmI/AAAAAAAAHgo/GHSewFbw8_o/s400/Batman+Baby+Doll.jpg[/img][/center][/quote] I've met some people that claimed 10 inches long, but turned out to be a tiny miracle also. It's nice to find kindred spirits!

Thanks for all the well wishes and jabs both. Also hello Square Root.

[center][img]http://www.echelonalliance.com/images/echelon-flag.jpg[/img][/center] Echelon's forums, formerly found at cn-echelon.com have moved to http://www.echelonalliance.com We've moved to a new server and the owner of cn-echelon.com is no longer around to point it to the Name Servers on the new server. For the next little while (Until the old server is taken off-line permanently) cn-echelon.com will redirect to the new site. Please update your bookmarks, if you need to. Thanks, Love Echelon

I had hopes that CMEA would make another run at it. Sorry to see this. Good luck, DS and the rest of the bunch. DemonSpawn

I was really hoping for an "Alliance" alliance, aka the opposite of Browncoats as the Independents. Either way, good luck.

[quote name='Alfred von Tirpitz' date='18 April 2010 - 11:50 PM' timestamp='1271648996' post='2265806'] It is rather simple really, \m/ as an alliance does not do anything under duress.[/quote] Except disband.

Good luck. I still have a lot of respect for you guys in Vanguard, even though we broke up. I can only imagine that this will make MK much stronger. Whether that's a good or bad thing, I haven't decided yet.

Congrats to both parties. FAR seems to be incredibly organized and efficient in all that they do, from what I've seen. They will definitely be going places with their growth.

I knew before I voted that the brown spanish cat would win.

Just asking for trouble, bros. Wait until some douchenut gets their forum compromised through their own stupidity somehow, and since you're hosting it, the first finger they point will be at you guys. I'm not saying I wouldn't trust you 3 - as far as the evil C&G goes, bros is probably the guy I would trust with stuff like this before anyone else, but if anything happens, you're just setting yourself up as a great scapegoat. Sure, you can almost surely disprove any claims with your database/php haxorz skills, but that won't stop some jackass from trying. I'd put money on it, if you guys go through with this, and get a sizable number of interested parties, it's only a matter of time until someone points a finger at you guys for ruining/hacking/spying on their forum, and then trying to force in-game consequences.

[quote name='Rush Sykes' date='12 March 2010 - 08:49 PM' timestamp='1268445282' post='2223869'] Generally, I try to avoid commenting on anything that you say. Truth is, within Athens, to a great many, you are considered a mentor, and will always hold a special place in many of our hearts. But this one, I could not pass up. You are better than this. I really think that. I have watched you defend Caffine as a different person, a changed person. Presumably because you believe he is someone who has come to grips with his past mistakes, and that he is really not that same person. Yet, at the same time, Londo, who all but self-removed himself from this venue because he did not like the face he was putting forth, and he really wanted to re-invent his personae because he felt like he had lost respect from people that mattered to him (yourself included).. does not get that same benefit of the doubt... simply because at this moment, he is supporting an ally who has unwaveringly supported us, even when we made douchebags out of ourselves. This post, truly, made me pretty sad. [/quote] So, it's alright for Athens/PC to support each other, regardless of how big of a douchebag move the other makes, but if Echelon supports NPO in the same manner, it's not okay? Gotcha.

[quote name='Rush Sykes' date='12 March 2010 - 03:39 PM' timestamp='1268426664' post='2223565']Time may someday prove you now love kittens and rescue puppies from sewer drains, until then, you would be better served to shut up with the "I've changed" nonsense, and let the actions talk.[/quote] The fact is, I do love kittens, and while I don't frequent sewer drains (Gross!), I would most definitely save a puppy if I saw one trapped there. Also, letting the actions speak is exactly why I made that post. Caffine has not been "his old self" in any talks in the last...year or more probably. Those are his actions. If you can't see them for what they are, I can't help. Also, it may not matter in the grand scheme of things whether or not I convince YOU in particular, but honestly, you're just the type of person (non-gov, Echelon hating people in hostile alliances) I would most like to convince. I don't think that will happen, but there's nothing I can do, aside from (as you said), letting my/our actions speak for themselves. I feel that we've been doing this, and will continue to do so.

[quote name='In Spades' date='12 March 2010 - 02:59 PM' timestamp='1268424301' post='2223546'] You do realize the irony of this message, don't you? lulz As per the Caffine thing, I think no one really cared because of how he acted prior to the karma war. We all thought "Who would really put him in charge of anything after all of this?" Question answered. [/quote] It's evident that people just won't let Caffine move on. The guy has noticeably changed his stance and attitude in regards to FA. Really, looking at the logs, it's hard to see where PC finds the grounds to make their claims that Caffine ruined the talks, or something. To the contrary, it's quite obvious that PC entered into the talks (Mostly starting with the Pezstar moderated log) with absolutely no intention of paying any reps. Why enter negotiations when you already know you won't pay? It's just a waste of time. Anyway, I'm not saying Caffine is an angel, or even that I'm an angel, but 99% of this stuff is people judging him based on actions that are very far in the past. I realize that the history of any given ruler has a serious impact on their current persona, but people DO change. (inb4 "Yeah, cuz ur nawt in teh hegemonoicalz posishun nemore soz u cant pushez peoplz around!2111!0") Anyway, I know Caffine would do the same, and probably has - to individuals at least, but I'm more than happy to do anything I can to make amends with those that I aggressively sought out in the past. Primarily NpO (Yes, we $%&@ed you over. I've said it countless times. I can't do anything else to make amends, can I?), Carpe Diem and the old Browncoats - they never deserved the negative attention I gave to them, and all that I can do is apologize again. Though, mostly BC, because it's one of the greatest themes any alliance has ever had. [OOC]Joss Whedon is god[/OOC] The point of my calling out those hailing PC for this thread is evident in the OP. Read it. Seriously. The OP is classless, without tact, and is merely bowing to the pressure of the OWF population, which is fine, but rather than actually admitting any wrongdoing, they halfheartedly admit that they made a mistake, then continue pointing fingers elsewhere, as if someone forced them to infringe upon a sovereign alliance.

[quote name='citizenkane' date='12 March 2010 - 01:35 PM' timestamp='1268419247' post='2223486'] This proves Londo's point. [/quote] I'm sorry, can you read? @Rush: You have to dig up 2-3 year old incidents to even try to give an example of my actions being even remotely similar to PC's or Athens. To provide evidence of either Athens or PC acting without class, I just have to look in the first few pages of this forum.

[quote name='Londo Mollari' date='12 March 2010 - 01:30 PM' timestamp='1268418958' post='2223482'] PC could have handled this in many ways, many of which would have resulted in a slagged Echelon and SBA. The way that PC did resolve this speaks highly of their character and is more generally proof that raiders do in fact care for the [OOC]player base of the game[/OOC]. Neither SBA nor Echelon is capable of forcing PC to pay reps, they are offering to take care of SBA because it's the right thing to do. Well done, PC, for settling this issue according to your own moral code. It's a wonderful thing to live in a world without morality police. [/quote] You are a funny dude. That's !@#$@#$ hilarious. Seriously. I lol'd really hard every time someone called PC honorable in this thread, or said they have "character". Both are very laughable concepts.

[quote name='Rush Sykes' date='12 March 2010 - 12:15 AM' timestamp='1268371253' post='2223048'] Completely..and utterly LIES. AE paid not one cent. I was a FINAL trium at the time...please do not tell me what happened in my alliance. K, thx. Also...As I said, this is not about those terms. This IS about a segment of the cast of characters attacking my allies and their credibility over this incident, given their own past, and the value of "their word." The 2 year old terms that were never paid, are not relevant, your reputations, are. [/quote] Wonder if this guy is as dramatic and anguished when speaking to his buddy, former tri of the evil Atlantic Empire, ally to Athens and member of the mighty Mushroom Kingdom? Naw, he'd rather randomly attack someone that was just a regular member back then.

[quote name='Thomas Jackson' date='11 March 2010 - 11:35 PM' timestamp='1268368856' post='2222978'] They also did not deserve the mistakes made by Echelon as well. Regardless, they should be a lot better off now considering all that has happened. [/quote] I won't claim that we didn't make any mistakes - but some of the trash being peddled as truth is pretty ridiculous. I'll just say that the whole mess was a HUGE misunderstanding..Possibly an epic understatement, but it covers the situation well. In the end, it looks like the proper actions are being taken for SBA - and that's what matters here. There are egos in Echelon and egos in PC that don't matter. SBA getting restitution is what matters.

Thank you, PC. SBA didn't deserve the unwarranted aggression, and they didn't deserve the indifferent response to your mistakes. I'm glad that you're doing the right thing, even if it did take 40 pages to sink in.

I'm not going to run around in circles anymore here, but I would like to point out one thing. When old Polars come in this thread (And also Schattenmann) and come down on the side of Echelon, it should be a pretty big signal. The only people defending PC here are friends of PC. Most of the people defending Echelon here are people that have absolutely no reason to care about Echelon, or to like Echelon.

[quote name='Baldr' date='10 March 2010 - 03:59 PM' timestamp='1268255102' post='2221237'] Wrong. http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=205313 [/quote] Really irrelevant, but placing a hard space in your bio doesn't make it empty - it makes it have a hard space in it.

[quote name='Jgoods45' date='09 March 2010 - 09:11 PM' timestamp='1268187380' post='2220263'] How very interesting. I guess I'll do the normal ally thing and say to Poison Clan that we will be there for you should this situation blow up. [/quote] No need to rush. You've got 6 months to prepare.

[quote name='Earogema' date='09 March 2010 - 07:17 PM' timestamp='1268180597' post='2219955'] Of that same token, 1 member of a 13 member AA told them they weren't protected. [/quote] Former member... That's like saying for us to contact Hal if we need to talk to \m/ government.

[quote name='Kevin McDonald' date='09 March 2010 - 06:44 PM' timestamp='1268178587' post='2219869'] Possibly a fair comment. That said, how have you allowed SBA to be raided 3 times? As protectors, shouldn't you have taken steps after the first time to ensure it didn't happen again? If I was SBA I'd be none too pleased. [/quote] Honestly, we thought we had. They have many nations with "Protected by Echelon" in their bios, and we spoke with PC about their previous attacks, so they were aware that SBA was protected. Not sure what else we can do, unless you'd expect us to post a weekly report on the OWF listing our treaties, just in case someone feels like tech raiding a sovereign alliance.

[quote name='Kevin McDonald' date='09 March 2010 - 06:39 PM' timestamp='1268178297' post='2219856'] From what I have read outside of this OP, neither the wiki nor Echelon's forums made it clear that SBA was protected. I'd let it go, there's nothing doing here. Even if you hope to win a "moral" victory, I think you'll be out of luck. Those who like PC won't change their opinions over this (and will likely harden them), and those who don't like PC, well, they still won't like PC. And for the record, I did spend the last few weeks watching curling. Also, hi Rugger, my old friend. Hope you're well. [/quote] Our forums and our wiki have both always stated that we are protecting SBA. PC knows they raided a protected alliance - it's not like it's the first time they've done it, they just don't care.

[quote name='Choader' date='09 March 2010 - 06:35 PM' timestamp='1268178055' post='2219840'] That's not true. At the time there was no publicly viewable SBA protection agreement on Echelon's forums. [/quote] Try this: http://www.cn-echelon.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12526 That post has remained exactly as is since February 9th, when it was changed to a table format. Until that point, SBA was STILL listed on it, but in a list format instead of table. SBA has been listed on that thread linked since we started protecting them.