deviousfairie

Glad to see this finalized

This was by no means an easy decision for us, and there is a great sense of melancholy in our halls, necessary as it may be. Good luck in the future, GOD. We have nothing but well wishes for you moving forward. o/ GOD

[quote name='AmbroseIV' timestamp='1342352150' post='3010458'] Not to be too ungrateful (at least we're fighting people we're friendly with and who aren't unreasonably hostile), but R&R being attacked by two C&G alliances was no doubt, in some part, intended to prevent INT from helping us against someone else and complicating the war - politics is a business and if that's what VE were asked... what's good enough for one side to take advantage of should be good enough for the other. It's nothing new and increasingly unavoidable in order to keep control of a war, so it doesn't deserve more attention in this instance just because parts of SF/VE dislike each other and one party didn't have any anything to gain by assisting the other. That said, there was a comment earlier in the thread where someone from VE stated "we were asked not to attack NPO the day before, but with everything ready to go we decided to do it anyway" (or something to that effect) - not hard to see why some people think VE were acting in spite of GOD whether it's an accurate view or not. [/quote] We made it clear from the beginning of this war that we would only enter it under a defense clause. If any of our treaty partners needed us to defend them, we would be there. We also knew full well which ally would need defense. Just before GOD hit NG, they asked if we would like to either oA in with them on NG or pick up the counter. We again stated that we would only enter the war in defense of an ally. After NPO hit GOD, we immediately began to make plans to counter them. Not long before we put up the DoW, we were again asked to oA somewhere else, as they didn't think us hitting NPO was putting us to the best use for the coalition. We then reiterated the fact that we weren't going to enter the war for any reason other than defense. Our concern was GOD, not the coalition, so we declined and proceeded with our declaration. It's not that they didn't want us to attack NPO; it's that they wanted us to attack someone else instead. That just wasn't an option for us. And we weren't offended by them asking, as some seem to suggest. We just weren't going to do it. You also mentioned that what's good for one side should be good enough for the other. The problem with that is that we didn't consider ourselves on a "side."

[quote name='Vol Navy' timestamp='1342343978' post='3010445'] You said VE shouldn't have been asked to hit an ally of an ally (NG due to UMB tie). But it's direct allies (GOONS) are hitting allies of VE's ally GOD and NG did as well (CSN,RIA). [/quote] Why would we care if one of our allies hit an ally of one of our other allies? That happens all the time. We just wouldn't want one ally hitting another. If we had attacked NG, GOONS would have two of their allies fighting each other. That would be a pretty crappy thing to do to GOONS.

[quote name='Mogar' timestamp='1342067806' post='3008881'] your target was chosen intentionally to get a sweetheart deal like this one, hitting Non Grata would have actually helped GOD and the coalition that GOD is the figurehead for a great deal more. [/quote] Why would we hit NG? They didn't attack one of our allies.

[quote name='mdnss69' timestamp='1342067195' post='3008857'] Good opponents VE have been, and better people yet. What a classy alliance. o/ [/quote] Likewise. It was a pleasure fighting you.

It was fun, guys. o/ peace

I think we'll manage.

Have fun, guys.

Awesome. Enjoy retirement, Abdur and Silver.

[quote name='Stonewall Jaxon' timestamp='1341120931' post='3001028'] Ball's in your court, GOONS/Umb [/quote] We aren't letting them play with our ball. It's ours, and we don't share well. So you can stop saying that.

[quote name='Letum' timestamp='1341120430' post='3001020'] It might seem that way at first glance, but then you have to consider that at least half of that NS is heavily engaged elsewhere and the other half is focused on certain tiers. If you look at it in terms of how many wars VE is fighting, it's 462 in total, comparable to ODN (463), NPO (419) and Non Grata (416). It's heavy fighting, to be sure, but by no means overwhelming. Particularly so for an alliance like VE, which is both experienced fighters and has had plenty of time to build up warchests due to their limited involvement in the last war. (At least, limited compared to us having to take DH and then Fark's upper tiers to the gut in successive wars) [/quote] Also keep in mind that ODN, NPO, and NG have a lot more nations. 192 compared to 262, 265, and 366. So the percentages are a bit different. But definitely true enough about experience and a more limited previous engagement. All that being said, let the good times roll. We don't mind a tough fight.

Cool, welcome to the fray.

Let's dance.

Welcome to our party.

Good luck out there.

[quote name='King Wally' timestamp='1340965121' post='2999934'] I honestly don't think Taut was ever deliberetly playing anyone (although at times he may of fudged various storys / lines to explain himself after the fact). In honesty I beleive he was a little shell shocked and didn't know what to do. He initially made a call thinking it was the right one then got hammered by membership at the idea of not defending an ally being hit and back peddled fast. Everyone was confused, nothing was planned well and a lot of people ended up feeling burnt. Taut fell on his sword within weeks and left this world. A true snake / player etc would of hung around and lapped up the attention, Taut on the other hand couldn't step away from the spot light fast enough. [/quote] I really think you're right. I also kind of felt bad for him in a lot of ways. He made a serious of unfortunate decisions that ended up hurting a lot of people, but I don't think that was ever his intention at all.

Welcome to the party

[quote name='Dilber' timestamp='1340804008' post='2998323'] They might say that, but GOD/VE and NPO hate each other. I don't care what that says, they don't mind fighting those two. They hit the jackpot of targets. EVERYONE IS JEALOUS OF THEM :< [/quote] I don't know how they feel, but we don't hate NPO at all.

I don't think people who come in to defend allies should get reps unless they've gone out of their way to provoke whoever they're attacking. But alliances who start aggressive wars and then lose them should typically have to pay some sort of reps afterward to atone for their aggression.

[quote name='Steve Buscemi' timestamp='1340781906' post='2998176'] Our world is "suffocating" because of the mass use of peace mode. We ended reps for the most part but with that came the courage or cowardice to fight more. Your allies chose to fight less via a "suffocatingly" massive usage of peace mode. When there were punitive reps it was understandable. But not now. So please take your holier than thou attitude out of here. [/quote] We have no say in another alliance's use of peace mode. You'll notice that our own alliance did not choose to go that route.

Should be a fun war!