Jerry Kellerman

The question was not directed at me, but personally I believe Jgoods has clarified the Athens position on the cancellation with TSI, and I am satisfied.

I'm not too impressed with this thread. You got fooled by a spy.. that's part of what a spy does, hmm?

It's an honor to be part of this great organization. Shall we have a bloc party?

I respect this post. Best of luck to you Jgoods.

As I told you in private, it's good to have you back

My gosh, is your avatar Paddington Bear? That makes me NPO

I personally have not seen Athens put out any logs showing that TSI received the information that was alleged to be leaked. It is understandable that Athens may infer a conclusion based on circumstantial evidence, and they may also turn that conclusion into personal cause to cancel a treaty. This is not my business whether Athens takes either of those actions. However, it is everyone's business when Athens essentially warns all of Planet Bob that TSI cannot be trusted with sensitive information. If Athens cannot back this up, after making such a serious accusation, then an apology is in order. Accusing someone of something then not having any evidence to back up what you accuse is not what I would consider honorable behavior, regardless of who is doing it or who is the accused.

This sounds like the Athens perception is rock solid. I don't think Athens would have even admitted that the evidence was circumstantial if not for so many people requesting evidence. Also, to clarify, some of the people criticizing Athens do not do so because they are anti-Athens, but rather they are rather unhappy that they were led to believe something quite terrible about TSI, and then they later found out that this is untrue and there was no basis for the accusation.

I have said several times in this thread that I was open to Athens providing any evidence to back up their accusation, because if it was true, I would be highly wary of TSI, since I would personally not want to have an ally who spreads private information to enemies. What I have seen is TSI provide logs that they did not receive the information that was leaked, and I have not seen logs from Athens showing that they did, or logs showing that the enemies of Athens have admitted receiving information from TSI about Athens. I really don't care if Athens or TSI are allied or if they cancel their treaty, but when Athens wants the general population to believe that this incident happened - by making an announcement dedicated to the accusation - and then it appears to be untrue, this may make some of us wary of believing Athens in the future.

If you cannot handle scrutiny from the community, you should not make baseless accusations without evidence. I suppose based on this post that an apology to TSI for attempting to smear their name is out of the question?

Not everyone reading this thread is a member of one of the two groups, Athens allies and TSI allies. Personally, I'm just interested in knowing the truth behind this matter, because if I'm going to be interested in getting to know one of these alliances better in the future, I want to know if they are in the habit of sharing private information or in the habit of spreading lies. TSI has provided logs showing they did not receive the information which was alleged to be leaked. Unless Athens has rebuttal logs, it appears TSI's version of the events is accurate.

If Athens had only canceled the treaty and not made the accusation that TSI had shared intel, there would be little discussion to be had. If Athens is correct in their accusation - I am still open to this possibility, but evidence needs to be provided - then at the very least if I was in their situation I would have canceled the treaty. Even if Athens is incorrect in its assertion, being on the opposite sides of the Karma War is a sufficient catalyst for a treaty cancellation, and no further explanation was required on the part of Athens. One possible reason why this affects other people is that relations have been established or possibly could be established in the future with Athens and/or TSI, and before one chooses an ally, one wants to ensure that they will not be lied about or have their intelligence shared with enemies.

Congratulations to the Masons on their new Grand Master (or is it Worshipful Master?)

Athens could have just canceled and said that there was a lack of communication and left it at that. Then there might have been a few speculators as to the real reason, but most would have accepted that being on the opposite sides of the Karma War was sufficient cause to cancel. Instead, Athens accused TSI of leaking private information. This potentially jeopardizes TSI's abilities to find future allies. For a serious charge such as this one, Athens needs to provide evidence. Again, if Athens would not have made the charge, people would not be scrutinizing this decision and asking for proof.

That's fine, it's expected that your enemy/rival will do this. For those who are not an enemy/rival of either alliance, such as myself, it would be nice to discern some truth relating to the charges Athens has made. I promise I will judge your evidence without bias.

I am impartial (not an ally/hater of either alliance) and I have to be far more inclined to support TSI's version of the events. Athens has no evidence (or has evidence and will not supply it) and has blamed their two leaks on TSI members when it's been established by both parties that there was a large lack of communication between these two alliances and the supposed recipient of secret Athens information showed logs that she did not receive said information. I am open to believing Athens, but evidence must be provided, and the reason why many of us are asking for evidence is because you levied very serious charges against TSI, so you need to back them up.

I still read rhetoric but I do not read evidence. Please provide details concerning who leaked what to whom. Otherwise, these accusations levied against TSI are wholly unsubstantiated.

What was this alleged information that TSI received, how did they receive it, and to whom was it sent? If it's still sensitive information, you can be vague.

I would like to see the Athens response to this.

I disagree. Zig, keep doing your thing, and good luck with this enterprise.

My nation does not yet field a stadium, so our footballers are relegated to practicing in Solicitor Harbor. Good luck with this, even though I am ineligible to participate

Hail to our ally TIO in its handling of roguery. I will be happy to hit this nation after update, as soon as it's old enough to be attacked. o/ TIO o/ Tsar Skippy

Congratulations to NPO on the anniversary. o/ Pacifica

Where is Francos Spain? Does he play CN?

I like it! Especially that cool Tetris music. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGSQ9EQOdKM <-- Guitar Hero Tetris!