Clash

I could see a mutual defense thing between NOIR and MHA in regards to RE though. I mean, I have no proof of anything, this is just total speculation. NOIR is mad at RE and MHA pretty much HAS to figure they are at the top of RE's list just by them being 1-2 most of the round. Together, before NOIR got hit by TPF and MHA got hit by RE, they have a good chance at RE. Stats wise at least.

I was just sort of making a general statement, not really aiming it at you. A lot of people are accusing them of bandwagoning on MHA for RE, and that's not true since they are an RE protectorate. RE protects them, so them fighting alongside RE is very appropriate. Sorry if it looked like I was aiming right at you, lonewolfe2015. On the NOIR thing I don't know. TPF had sort of figured by the way that the NOIR gov were talking smack, that MHA kind of had to be one of the ones they'd rounded up. Who else could help them fight RE? I've no idea for sure though.

GATO is an RE protectorate. This is just them returning the favor. I don't see anything to complain about and a lot to honor.

Which one are you again?

This fight is really starting to tip towards LE. LE is just a bunch of war beasts.

Yet another group certain people were trying to drum up to attack us. This time, one of our protectorates, of all people. Some people are LOOSAHS.

TPF officially announces peace with NOIR. Nations will begin peacing out as soon as we can get the news out. *sighs* I do hate mass PMs. Too many of NOIR are our friends, people who we've been on the same side of the battlefield with for too many times. Most of NOIR we didn't ever have any problems with. This makes the pursuing the peace process a bit easier. It turns out that it was just the ones at the top, those who were trying to get other alliances to attack us, that we really had problems with. The same ones who keep their machinations quiet from the rest of their alliance, the ones who posted the RE hit list in the NOIR public areas of their forums, the same ones that - well you get the idea. All of that stuff would be rather annoying for anyone, and as it turns out, EVERYONE. SO! Peace is given to NOIR. With two exceptions. Doornail and lkeller will remain at war until further notice. Oh yes. They will.

Let's update this, we now have SIX of the top ten: Second, third, fourth, fifth, seventh and eighth. We also have 18 of the top 50, with others on the cusp. Sound like fun to you? Join TPF!

I was trying to get at arguments against more heavily weighting the score system on things other than number of members, which it seems to be biased towards right now. Right now, since it's based on most members, having 0 NS nations helps you get a better score. If the score system were based more on NS elements, then having 0 ns nations would hurt you a lot more.

I completely wish you luck in your endeavors. The PMs that were forwarded to me and others of our leadership - by several sources that I will do my best not to reveal for their protection - were mostly sent by NOIR's second-in-command. Who would that be again? Might it be the same fellow in here trying vainly to cover his inglorious rear end with red herrings and other drivel? How to win TE has different meanings for everyone. Considering how off the alliance score ratings are, I don't consider having the best score to be winning TE by way of war. The score rating is heavily biased by number of alliance members - that even counts ghosts. It's not by efficiency of running your alliance (where you fail the most, btw) or by skill in playing the game. Getting the highest alliance score is almost entirely a recruiting victory. o/ Folger, king of recruiting! Is there a way to jam his PMs somehow I am unaware of? Perhaps a new spy attack I missed? That's the only way to stop RE's incredible recruiting machine. The ironic thing is that RE and Tiberius have been some of the most outspoken critics of the way scores are calculated. As I've stated several times now, unless RE hemorrhages 100 nations and doesn't get any more recruits, there's not much anyone else can do. I doubt even some mass overwhelming attack would do that - more likely, it might even harden their resolve further. I believe in friends > infra. Whether that's losing infra in war or gaining it through recruiting. You're on your own there, doornail. Literally. Since the score thing is so unrealistic - I'm playing for a t-shirt! I want size XXXXXXX so I can use it as a bedsheet, too.

Awesome job, Arrnea, just great. Thank you muchly for the effort

friends > infra Even in TE. At least for some of us. The rest are on their own. Literally. **Added: Most people seem to think that this saying only goes one way: In case you LOSE infra. I for one say it goes both ways. I am not going to build the wealth of my nation on the blood of a friend, though certainly some people around here feel that way. I will also not endorse my alliance doing that either. Just sayin'.**

Let me repost this, Doornail: That was a really big mistake in so many ways - especially against someone you were forming a treaty with. You're acting like they have no right to be mad at you. They DO. It really has nothing to do with the round or anything else - it mostly has to do with THAT, and the poor excuses made for it. That's not such a good way to treat a treaty - or to perform diplomacy. This kind of diplomacy was much what TPF was treated to by NOIR's leadership as well. I, and TPF, as we have repeatedly stated, have little problem with the vast bulk of NOIR's membership. They are good guys and we would know this for sure since so many of them used to ride with TPF, as recently as last session. Yet, I've seen what I've seen on NOIR's leadership's intentions. Though it came from several sources, it all matches together and we don't doubt it for a moment. We didn't attack NOIR because of RE - we attacked because it was what we felt was needed to be done for our own safety. To head off potential bigger problems at the pass, so to speak. We don't regret defending ourselves, even preemptively. I also doubt this will last much longer anyways - we DO like NOIR. However, TPF isn't going to separate from RE. All this sniveling (not from you, from several quarters) about our ties is only serving to strengthen those ties. We value integrity and honesty in our dealings. Attacking our allies is the same as attacking us. Recruiting people to attack us is also the same as trying to attack us. We don't turn our backs on our friends and allies - and I think our talking RE out of attacking NOIR so many times should show this emphatically. We stood up for NOIR just like we stand up for RE, and most of NOIR we consider to be friends as well. Just not all of it.

I soooo doooo! Well said most of the rest of it, too

It really wasn't NOIR hitting us. It was NOIR trying to get a bunch of others to hit us. Certain members were the ringleaders for those actions. Well, thanks It still reeked though. We miss you, contractkiller and Stoopid Ace in TPF.

Great work GATO, way to fight. o/ RG

Git 'em OB! You guys SLAY.

Rude, you're a good man. I hated having to hit you tonight, that reeked. Our evidence was pretty brutal and unquestionable though. Certain members of NOIR were trying to drum up alliances to attack us. It's true. I also believe you when you say you didn't know anything about it. I'd bet most NOIR didn't either.

It didn't come from him. We gave it TO him. There's more wrong with that, that's part of it.

Kill 'em all, Romans!

The Phoenix Federation declares war on NOIR. We like NOIR, too. Many ex-TPF people in that alliance. I had to fight one of those myself tonight. We didn't want it to come to this, and we fought hard against it. TPF and RE had talked getting treaties with NOIR, and RE actually did. Tiberius talked to me just a few days ago about making this an official bloc: TF, TPF, RE and NOIR. he was all excited, talking about what the announcement would say. We were all very high on them. Then things started to change. First, there was this at the NOIR forums: That apparently predated their treaty with RE. Were they setting RE up? How could THAT be a mistake? Except for the mistake of posting it in a public area, of course. NOIR couldn't understand why Tiberius might get mad at a NOIR hit list of his nations - which had HIM on it, as well. We talked him out of declaring war that time. Then again after they made stupid excuses for it. Then AGAIN when certain other threads in here popped up. WE LIKE NOIR! RE didn't attack them just out of friendship with us. However. There is a final pushing point. Just a couple of days ago we received intel that NOIR was in the process of putting together a coalition to attack TF, RE - and TPF as well. We got this from several sources, and to keep them all safe, we won't post it here. All the intel, though coming from different places, matched. NOIR was the ringleaders. We have no doubts. Tiberius was nice enough not to laugh (too hard) when we brought this to RE's attention. We LIKE those NOIR guys! Yet we felt like we were betrayed, obviously, and had to do something about it. There's no hard feelings. This is TE and NOIR was playin' the game. Perhaps they thought they were doing the right thing. They were wrong.

Now, we at TPF generally like NOIR. Lots of former TPF in that alliance. However. That sounds like a threat. Tsk tsk. Is is possible zerg isn't the only one letting his emotions get away from him? Care to discuss the "provocative action" in greater detail?

I think one of the arguments made against higher weighting other elements than alliance nation numbers, is that alliances can kick people out who have low NS just to improve the NS-based numbers. Or they would limit new members to larger nations only. Yet that might work out even better though, we'd have fewer really big alliances and more in total. More total alliances might mean more competition and more alliance wars between those competing for a crown they'd now have a chance to win. How about we limit the alliance score race to only 12 alliances - the ones who earn sanction only? This way you do have to maintain a fairly large alliance, but you'd also have to be good at building those nations and fighting using them to keep that growth. I think that might even heat up the race for sanctioning, give it more importance. Even better if we have more alliances competing for it. Then you can put a lot more weight on nation-per-nation strength and might not end up with as much emphasis on alliance membership numbers. You end with successive races: First to get sanctioned - then to win the round once you DO get sanctioned. The way things are now it just seems like the TE alliance score thing is a recruiting battle more than anything else. I'd like the score race to be based more on how good you do as an alliance across the board, not just how good you are at recruiting new nations.

This whole "RE has won the round" thing has been gone over before. By many people though I've never honestly seen RE be the ones to brag about it. Here's my version of explaining it. In order for RE to lose the round, around 100 nations of theirs have to desert the alliance. That or someone else has to out-recruit them and pass them in total nations by the end of the round. It's just a fact, and I know how people hate those pesky facts. This is all in the way the alliance scores are figured and there's just no way to get around it. In the thread I just referenced, Harold gave the link to this thread right here: Modify Alliance Score If you don't like the way things are, please go post there. A lot of people have already, and done a better job of explaining things than I have for sure. TE isn't a war game if all you care about is "winning the round" for your alliance. It's a recruiting game. I'm not happy about, nor is Harold, nor are a lot of people. That's not changing facts though. Personally I think the ways scores are calculated should give room for any of the sanctioned alliances to win. Not just the one with the most nations in it. It's not RE's fault the way things are now, so there's no point in whining at them about it. Myself and TPF, we're playing for the t-shirts. Most t-shirts wins!

Currently from the Awards list: Total Soldier Casualties 1) 24,193 Total Soldiers Lost - NeoGandalf of NeoGondor - Black Team Always the most popular date at the prom, eh? Some things never change. Hehe. Well, I see no reason to respect you, either. So that's fair enough. "$@!-hat" sums up almost every post I've ever seen from you - including this one The next time you contribute positively to a thread will be the first time.