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[center][b]Defense Industries In Edean Use Regional Instability to Acquire Record Profits[/b][/center] With the [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=109680"]UC-Peruvian War[/url] still well under-way (now with 2 more nukes added to the collection) and bizarre activities going on between [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=107755&view=findpost&p=2944549"]Gallifrey and the UC[/url] as well, the public concern over security of assets and freedom rapidly exploded. Even internal concerns were present as companies were concerned with the potential for anarchies darker side to arise in the wake of an economic downturn that would soon lead to certain and terrible downsizing. Uncertainty was the marked feeling and the defense industry set out to capitalize upon this opportunity - with the companies of Lagrange Inc. and Geartronics poised to post the largest gains. [center][img]http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100101005406/redfaction/images/thumb/5/54/SamBrown-15-RF-Scout.jpg/830px-SamBrown-15-RF-Scout.jpg[/img][/center] [u]GEARTRONICS[/u] was the closest to completing it's latest combat vehicle which would come to stock most of the private firms and eventually the militia forces of Edean. The [u]FENER COMBAT VEHICLE[/u] was an all terrain transport designed with the rough roads of the Andes Mountains and muddy, vine covered roads of the jungle floor in mind. The transport vehicle sported armor plating across the strategic positions of the vehicle, underneath and on the sides over the bio-cargo. The units were designed in a modular mannerism akin to the [u]FLYPMODE[/u] transport, allowing for modular seating for between 3-5 people. Onboard digital camera systems and electronic systems could also be developed into the overall design so that the Fener could be used for both transport and as a very light forward operations communications center or recon unit. The vehicle was always armed with one primary machine gun, which was typically manually controlled, but digitally controlled upgrades were also available, along with further electronic field and other optical sensors. Internally, the Fener had a range of about 340 miles off-road with a 6.5 liter V8 Diesal Engine designed for traversing small streams (up to 30 inches). The unit has a ground clearance of roughly 16 inches and can climb a 60% grade, or 22 inch obstacles. Units run between a price range of $65k and $95k for the communications unit. [center][img]http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2010/314/2/2/ragnarok_r_fb_0_by_danteaffinityxd-d32li1k.png[/img][/center] Lagrange Inc. in the meantime, could only show off two early test units of their native 4.5 generation fighter/bomber, the [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=109163&view=findpost&p=2932622"]Lagrange YR F/B-3 Sky-Shark[/url]. This was Edean's first native aircraft of full production, early test mock-ups of the YR F/B-0 and 1 were turned down as test models to attempt to bring the region up to speed. Odd memories of the Aether Empire's X-F/A 13 and [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=58756&view=findpost&p=1568662"]A-37 Gargoyle [/url] came to mind, as Dr. Zigmund worked with senior and junior aeronautical engineers working for [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=109163&view=findpost&p=2932622"]Lagrange Inc.[/url] or studying under internships at [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=109752"]Sanctum University[/url] respectively. The new [u]Lagrange Sky Shark[/u] was in essence, a short range tactical bomber with characteristics of a fighter plane added on. Early on in the design, it was understood that Edean would be utilizing the Lagrange Sky Shark as a smaller cheaper support fighter/bomber to [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=108972&st=140"]AUP F/A-0s[/url]. As such, while an apt air-to-air fighter against smaller third world nations, the primary goal of the F/B-3 was to act as an air support unit for ground forces in regions where air superiority was already acquired. The overall stats of the aircraft were as follows: [B]Crew:[/B] 1 Powerplant: [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Electric_F110"]1 Lagrange F-110 Afterburning Turbofan[/url] 17,500 lbf of thrust 28,000 lbf of thrust ([url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afterburner"]With Afterburner[/url]) Max Speed: Mach 1.4 (At seal level) Mach 2.3 (At altitude) Ferry Range: 3100 km (With twin external fuel tanks) Combat Radius: 450 km Maximum Design g-Load: 9 g Cost: $14,000,000 [b]1.[/b] The Lagrange F/B-3 Sky Shark is a 4.5 Gen fighter plane, developed by Lagrange Inc and acts as a smaller cheaper fighter bomber to accent the capabilities of the R F/B-0 squadrons purchased by Edean. While the aircraft lacks many stealthy features, it makes up for this a significantly lower cost. [b]2.[/b] THIS AIRCRAFT IS DESIGNED TO WORK IN COORDINATION WITH THE R F/B-0 AND CAN BE MODIFIED TO EASILY INTEGRATE WITH ANY SUPPORTING AIR FORCE. [b]COCKPIT[/b] [b]1.[/b] The Sky Shark utilizes a glass cockpit design, with plenty of free-space for onboard pilots. Onboard cockpit displays provide information about the local RADAR space from the onboard AESA or networked over secondary information from friendly sources. Information can even be transmitted via network to friendly data facilities which can attempt to provide air-craft type data as well as relevant RADAR range and other information. [b]2.[/b]In addition to the glass cockpit, all Sky Sharks can utilize connectable [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmet_mounted_display"]HMDS (Head Mounted Display Systsm)[/url] which displays relevant mission data, aircraft locations and Night Vision. The system could also be left out however for a slight reduction in cost for a more traditional [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmet_mounted_display"]HUD (Heads Up Display)[/url]. [b]3.[/b] All aircraft are equipped with a [url="http://www.martin-baker.com/products/Ejection-Seats/Mk--16-high-speed/US16E---JSF.aspx"]MARTIN-BAKER US16E[/url] ejection seat. Furthermore, control of the aircraft utilizes a right hand stick controller and a left throttle control. [b]ON BOARD NAVIGATION[/b] [b]1.[/b] The Sky Shark utilizes a combination of GPS and ground reference based navigation systems. At the current time however, onboard Laser Gyroscopic Inertial Navigation systems are under development and will be completed by the end of the year for the purproses of full production. [b]ARMARMENT[/b] [b]1.[/b] In accordance with aircraft design, many of the fittings for the R F/B-0 were designed to work with R F/B-0 type weapons, or their native generic weapons variants. Secondary hardpoint upgrades could be implemented to connect the present hard-points and onboard software to connect with native missile units (required software can be installed upon request for all such weapons). The only unit that is particularly specific to the F/B-3 is the 20mm [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M61_Vulcan"]M61 VULCAN[/url]. It should also be noted that the aircraft has an onboard collection of IR, AESA RADAR and Optical Sensors which can help guide these weapons, as well support for HOBS (HIGH OFF BORESIGHT) missiles like the AIM-9x. Gun: 1x20mm [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M61_Vulcan"]M61 VULCAN[/url] Missiles: [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIM-9_Sidewinder"]Aim 9x Sidewinder[/url], [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vympel_R-73"]SIR-73[/url], [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=65298&view=findpost&p=2545679"]SIR-74AC and SIR-74AC-ER[/url], [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Air_to_Ground_Missile"]JAGM Missile[/url], [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGM-84_Harpoon"]AGM-84 Harpoon[/url], [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGM-88_HARM"]AGM-88E AARGM[/url], [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGM-154_JSOW"]AGM-154 JSOW[/url], [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MBDA_Meteor"]MBDA Meteor[/url], [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vympel_R-37"]SARAH-37 Missile[/url], [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADM-160_MALD"]ADM-160A MALD[/url], [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=65298&view=findpost&p=2565486"]SEAD-MA and SEAD-MA-EM[/url] Bombs: [/b] [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CBU-100_Cluster_Bomb"]CBU-100 Cluster Bombs[/url], [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JDAM"]JDAM Series[/url], [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_82_bomb"]Mark 82[/url], [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_83_bomb"]83[/url] and [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_84_bomb"]84[/url] GPBs, [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paveway"]Paveway Series Bombs[/url], [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_Diameter_Bomb"]Small Diameter Bombs[/url] All craft are additionally armed with chaff and flares for aircraft defense. [b]AIRCRAFT DESIGN[/b] [b]1.[/b] While the air-craft does implement some stealth features, the Sky Shark is not a directly stealth air-craft and utilizes onboard electronic systems and some aspects of design to help reduce RADAR detection. The onboard AESA RADAR system also reduces chances of detection because it's direct source is significantly harder to track. Becuase of it's smaller overall size, the aircraft also utilizes conformal fuel tanks to help increase it's range for a more ambitious range, without utilizing fuel tanks which take up crucial hard-points and greatly increase it's RADAR cross-section. [b]2.[/b] In addition to it's physical design characteristics, the aircraft also utilizes a fully electronic control 'fly-by-wire' system to allow pilots a rapid reaction time which also helped minimize the overall cost in maintenance. In total the aircraft is a moderately stealthy aircraft designed primarily for maintaining air-superioty while providing air-support for ground units in the region. OOC: That may seem similiar, but if you check it out, while significantly cheaper, this is far more of a lightweight then the Brown Widow, which Edean has decided to purchase from AUP and Aeon. It's somewhat of an equivalent to an advanced slightly smaller variation of the F-16.

[b]A Statement from the Edean White Cross[/b] The Edean White Cross would be interested in helping in this operation with whatever means we could achieve with a budgetary expectations that are expected to be significantly reduced from years past due to the regional situation.

[quote name='iKrolm' timestamp='1333218728' post='2946213'] The tech scale affects military technology, but military technology doesn't change very fast. Take the US main battle tank, for example: the M1 Abrams has been in use since 1980. There have been a few upgrades: the M1A1 appeared in 1985 and the M1A2 replaced it in 1992. The M1A2 has been in service for 20 years now, but it is the M1 with a few upgrades for a total of [b]32 years[/b] of service. [/quote] But I imagine that current M1A2 tank units make use of computers and GPS devices that their 1992 counterparts couldn't dream of. We're talking about the technological difference between front-style tactics and swarm based tactics, between placing a general set of forces in a region and directing firepower on the fly as needed. We're also talking the difference between regular depleted uranium shells and rocket propelled tank shells with significantly larger range - as well as more advanced counter-measures for inbound missiles and what not. Sure, the chasis might not change - the M1A2 is an amazing tank, much like the F-15 was an amazing plane, but the modifications with time greatly changed the role which these weapons had. The M-16 is another great example - great weapon, but I doubt that soldiers from Vietnam could match up against soldiers from today in urban combat.

[quote name='TheShammySocialist' timestamp='1333214370' post='2946185'] [center][b][size="4"]Confederation of Greater New England Official Statement[/size][/b] [IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d8/Gadsden_flag.svg/200px-Gadsden_flag.svg.png[/IMG][/center] "It is the opinion of the Confederation of Greater New England that given the sudden and drastic destabilization of the Midwest Republic was caused by the Central American Union's attack on its borders. Claiming to be defending itself from terrorism, this nation has caused the deaths of millions of people through this act, which has unsubstantiated evidence as its [i]casus belli[/i]. Given the sensitive nature of this situation, the Confederation [i]will[/i] not tolerate this nation being the protectors of this nation which has descended into utter chaos and we issue this ultimatum; all Central American Union soldiers are to begin a full withdrawal from the borders of the former Midwest Republic in the next twenty four hours. These terms are non-negotiable, further advances into the former Midwest Republic will be taken as ignorance of these terms, and if these terms are not met within twenty four hours, the Midwest Republic will exist in a state of war with the Confederation." [/quote] [b]Edean White Cross[/b] Our attempts bringing aid into the region have been so far ignored and so for the safety of our volunteers, we were unable to enter into the region as of late. We would like to request permission to send aid to region, for which the White Cross of Edean has continuously been preparing for while we watched in horror the recent turn of events. We're only sorry that we could not have been there sooner to provide help for refugees of this crisis. Unfortunately a good share of our anti-radiation materials were needed on account of nuclear activities occurring down in South America, but we still have much we can offer as well as shelter and equipment for clean food and water. Even if we could simply deliver the goods to Greater New England, if you would be willing to distribute the aid and set up camps, that would be wonderful. Sincerely, The Edean White Cross

I should like to note that the tech required for 2035 tech is out of reach - 2034 tech still requires a whopping 14,000 technology. I don't know of two many nations that have that much tech. Even at full blast, I won't be able to reach that for another 2 years (assuming I'm not knocked back by some random off-the-wall war). You practically have to be part of the GPA to get into that range. 9000 tech is still required to get to the year 2030, with tech from the year 2035 being about 3x as powerful as tech from 2030. I would however, that a lot of these problems occur because technology like the above, is non-linear in growth. Every decade, our technology becomes roughly one order of magnitude better. So Sabres can't keep up with F-4 phantoms, F-4 phantoms can't keep up with F-15s from the 1980s, which couldn't keep up with F-15s from the year 2000, which couldn't keep up with the F-22 (Note that the aircraft have different letters next to them, describing their current generation). The tech from the year 2022 for instance will likely blow the socks off the F-22 with some kind of fighter drones that no longer need human pilots and the tech from the year 2030 will make the tech from the year 2020 just as obsolete. The current tech scale - because every tech seller should have tech of 50 at minimum, goes roughly from 1984-2034, or a range of roughly 50 years. The one noted by Triyun, isn't all that different. It's just that the first 1000 tech doesn't jump you forward 20 years, so keeping in line with Lynneths tech scale while implementing a minimum of 1984 for the tech range to avoid curb-stomps of all tech sellers (they're the reason the tech heavy nations exist in the first place) and you'd have, [b]500 tech and below:[/b] 1984 [b]1000 tech:[/b] 1991 [b]1500 tech:[/b] 1995 [b]2000 tech:[/b] 1998 [b]3000 tech:[/b] 2001 [b]4000 tech:[/b] 2004 [b]5000 tech:[/b] 2006 [b]6000 tech:[/b] 2008 [b]7000 tech:[/b] 2010 [b]8000 tech:[/b] 2012 [b]9000 tech:[/b] 2014 [b]10,000 tech:[/b] 2015 Far less scary that way. However, like I noted, far more boring. I like my RPs interesting, I prefer fantasy and sci-fi over realistic military books - sorry Tom Clancy. I realize that it has problems with people saying "That's not even possible!" But honestly, nothing in RP here is completely in the realm of possible - it's role-play and it's for fun. Stop trying to argue whether something is possible or not and stop acting like you can win a war because of your techno-gadget. It's cool, we know, but it won't win wars. For game purposes, perhaps the following should be in play For an equally matched impact of two sides, every twenty years of technology allows for the destruction of 3 enemy units for every one of your own, 10 years only 2 for every one of your own and less then 10 years makes them an equal match. If the two sides meet with one having the strategic or tactical advantage, the tactical advantage changes the scale by +1 to one side if technologically superior, but if the technologically inferior or roughly equal (within 1 decade of) nation achieves the advantage then the inferior nation destroys roughly 2 enemy units for each one of it's own. With the above, it stops the god-weapons of doom by making everything mortal again. No weapons can be built that would fall outside of that range of power and super-weapons are to remain simply as they are - essentially a constant for all sides, with perhaps nations having fusion being capable of producing fusion weapons without the radioactive fallout, but the lack of fallout is it. Nukes are nukes. EDIT: Modified rule idea because I still disliked how strong the numbers were. The new rule idea would be far less lethal and grants the technologically inferior side the chance to gain advantage through superior RP strategy.

[quote name='Chancellor Patrick' timestamp='1333147188' post='2945746'] Don't forget about South Americans who think they are French Strangest of the lot. Or at least they used to be. [/quote] Actually I think she did - instead, I think she ignored more of the Vesari and Oniru. Oddly, one of the reasons why I chose to RP in SA (Besides the beautiful terrain that matched many of my people's needs) was the fact that Biscotti was not only anarchist in some means (even though anarcho-syndicalists) but also had individuals with partial animal-like characteristics. It helps to have similiarities to other nations in a region when looking for friends to build safer alliances with and what not - although oddly enough, I think Edean is getting along better with the Time Lord and Gallifrey...

Within the EEF, a cheer could be heard rising out. Many of the people in Edean were afraid that the collapse of the Lunar Republic, followed by the protectorate status by Greenland, then supposedly the Umbrella Commonwealth, would end up as the final straw on the lama's back in South America. The UC-Pervuvian War was still hot and underway, and waters to the east were still restricted between quarreling nations, even the former technological glory known to the Lunar Republic was in many ways lost in this new Republic... but there now was indeed a state where there once had been none but a protectorate. That was the first good news that had rolled through and slowed down the precipitous collapse of the EEF, which had already lost 15% of it's net value in the period of weeks. It is hence not surprising that this news was welcomed with the following message of welcome: "The people of the Free Kingdom of Edean are over-joyed to hear of the rise of the new Republic of Para. We hope that you will provide a future of peace and happiness for your citizens and at the nearest opportunity, our own business leaders would love to meet with yours - along with other representatives to discuss various matters, and to open up opportunities of trade and economic success that is so crucial to South America at the current juncture. We currently have plans to meet with the nation of Gallifrey and we were wondering if you would like to join us in discussing various opportunities that our lands might offer to one another." "We would also like to express our apologies to the nation of Greenland, who together with the Umbrella Commonwealth - despite their current turmoil, have worked out the restoration of power to the people who currently live within Brazil. With effort, hopefully time will offer us the chance to restore the stability of this region so that we can work together to positively impact the world." --------------------- Outside of this affair, another note of interest was that prior to this point, many of the Vesari who noticed the rhetoric and military buildup associated with recent affairs had began to protest openly in the streets about the discussion of 'action' by the Oniru and Human components of the Triumvirate. Anyone watching the news from the region though, would notice that a million person march had began to form around the capital - representing the Vesari's strong distaste of all things military. Fears were still high among the Humans and Oniru who continued to push for a reduction in humanitarian aid for the next, no doubt, smaller economic year. But in accordance with his species, Triumvir Androcles of the Vesari had openly declared that should the other triumvirates call for military action, he would outright oppose the measure and even sue under claims that any such war motivated by trade was unconstitutional. Even before the apology was stated above, even before knowledge of the new nation, the Vesari had already taken their chance and had sent letters to Greenland apologizing for the behavior of their Triumvirate and making open statements condemning the regionalism of the other species. Unfortunately, because of economic marginalization and unified drive the Oniru and the Humans - this would do little good at stopping a war-mongering... even though in extreme situations, the creatures weren't unknown to act in other, more obstructing, ways to clog up the gears of war. So when news reached the Vesari that a new nation had arose in the region, this meant the death of many of the military tensions associated with the affair - and so they had their own particular reason to celebrate, particularly the aversion of any potential conflict between South America and Greenland over the meaningless lines drawn on maps and who lived where. This wasn't to say that the Vesari weren't impacted by the economics of the situation and in fact, they were hurt the most because the booming military economy that arose out of fear excluded the Vesari who strictly refused to work in the sector as either soldiers or as regular civil-style employees. In the months that followed on account of the UC-Peruvian War, joblessness wasn't simply a problem, but starvation even occurred in certain rare but terrible circumstances as the White Cross was already stretched thin and it's primary contributing class (the Vesari) no longer could support their ends to even spare themselves. However, as one Vesari noted - it was better to fall into eternal sleep from the slow advance of hunger then to die biting and clawing to take the life of another you've only just met. ------------------- So in many ways, this new nation was a saving moment of joy for a nearby nation more-so then it could ever imagine. With it, came the hope that soon profits would stop falling, fear of regional collapse would fade and that peace would once again prevail over South America. Whether these hopes would be realized however, was a something yet to be seen.

[quote name='Executive Minister' timestamp='1333162692' post='2945876'] OOC: I wouldn't. When I modified the F/A-0 I added some extra stuff so I wouldn't know where to price it. That's why I removed the cost. Just go with it, lol. [/quote] OOC: It makes it harder to role-play, but admittedly, I did purchase it assuming that the stat sheet you sent me was the actual price XD. I don't know if Edean could have afforded an aircraft that was significantly more expensive anyways. I'm just essentially looking for that part to be roleplayed out - so throw a number in there based on the old one (about 80 some odd million) if you can't think of anything. It will help alot in determining my future RP to keep the numbers rational.

[b]Private[/b] Perhaps Procintia would be interested in moving it's flag production facilities to Edean, which forbids copyright laws in accordance with Article 8 of the [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=109055&view=findpost&p=2918625"]Free Edean Constitution[/url]. Private military firms may even be hired so that if any agent, claiming to be of international law attempts to attack your facility with force, such force will be rebuked by military force that you yourself fund within the confines of the insurance agreement made between you and said agency. Even claims to international law would be ignored as Edean does not recognize any nation or organization other then living sentient beings as people, according to Article 2 of [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=109055&view=findpost&p=2918625"]Free Edean Constitution[/url], making the respect of any international court non-existent although the responsibility off funding forces to defend your organization would fall upon your behalf even though I doubt anyone would be willing to launch a physical attack to attempt and force the closure of your facilities. Of course, being in a free market, you would have to compete with other companies producing competing flags, but so far the market demand hasn't presented itself and you've almost closed the window of opportunity yourself for this particular product.

[quote name='Executive Minister' timestamp='1333130310' post='2945597'] To: The Free Kingdom of Edean From: The Principality of Aeon Subject: RE: Airplane Contract Message: The Free Kingdom of Edean enjoys a rather unique position in both a geopolitical as well as. . . biopolitical circumstance. The Principality will indeed procure several [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=108972&view=findpost&p=2945594"]F/A-0 BROWN WIDOW[/url] strike fighters for use in the Edean Airforce. Expect the first shipment to arrive within the month, with the rest arriving periodically until the order is complete. Our respective financial bodies have already come into contact with contemporaries in your nation. Your Truly, MILitary Aviation Complex (MILAC) [/quote] Could we possibly acquire a reciept of charges so that we can be sure to transfer to the proper amount over? Sincerely, Edean Aerospace Defense

OOC: I'm confused. Didn't the CAU invade you? In that case, how does the above RP remotely relate to what took place - I think there is a time paradox. Did you nuke the soldiers of the CAU or just nuke what remained? The Edean White Cross even planned on sending aid and unfortunately used much of it's anti-radiation meds back in Edean because of the nukes that went of in SA. However... I'm just confused. EDIT: In particular, what about this whole thing here? http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=109855

A couple of ideas. 1) Maintain 1 region minimum. Attacks can occur on a nation, but it's core area can never be taken. This eliminates the possibility of wars of elimination and forces players to make wars about other topics - which cuts out much of the fear that likely drives the competition. Let's be honest, watching the people you created and ran as a country get slaughtered is one's worst nightmare and if techno-babble will stop it, then by darned - techno-babbling will occur. If you eliminate that fear however, perhaps the techno-babble drive would go away as well. 2) If this whole thing is about the techno-babble, why are we even focusing ANY consideration to the lower level tech. Why drop the floor out of technology when you're actually looking to lower the ceiling? It seems like many of these tech scales focus on the wrong end of the spectrum. Change the cap of the tech, don't manipulate the lower range. 3) Perhaps battles should be run with a dice roll effect with a bonus for good Role-Play or Brilliant strategy as seen by the GM?

[center][b]Public Statement By the Free Kingdom of Edean[/b][/center] Triumvir Rodolfo spoke from behind an Edean Podium at Mistwood Citadel concerning the events. "The continent of South America has come under numerous complications in recent days - wars, embargo, nuclear fallout, economic calamities and now to add to the instability, the entirety of the Lunar Republic has removed itself from power in the region and an agent of the North Pole has come down to declare it's sovereign control over the region - shortly after it's expansion into Florida not too long ago as other nations rush to claim the territory of the Lunar Republic like buzzards to dead meat. The Lunar Republic is not dead and it's lands and people's are not simply to be treated as some trinket to be taken away. South American land belongs to South America - to New Panama, The Republic of Gallifrey, Neo Roma, The Umbrella Commonwealth, The Free Kingdom of Edean, The Peruvian Imperium, Principality of Gallia and even Avalon at Galapagos." "Edean does not approve of this decision by New Greenland - and requests that regions formerly held to the Lunar Republic be made territories mutually defended by all of South America as South American Protectorates. Something must be done, or these actions will not spare the region from calamity but instead, it shall bring it upon us all." [b]Private[/b] Connections were made with the Defense Firms Across Edean and estimates were asked concerning potential contracts to act in the defense of South America if need be. The Edean National Militias also mobilized to in preparation for potential conflicts that could arise - although the mobilization was mostly unnecessary, as many had already taken initiative on account of the Peruvian-UC War.

[quote name='Isaac MatthewII' timestamp='1332979955' post='2944605'] That. Even make a separate CNRP call it "CNRP Post 2012" or something to that effect. I think it would be awesome RP. [/quote] Alas - it is indeed sad, but it has been tried before many times and always met with failure.

[quote name='Isaac MatthewII' timestamp='1332976838' post='2944553'] "In response Gallifrey has barred the national waters of its own nation from the commonwealth in accordance with our maritime policy. The Lord President is sad at this act act of distancing the UC has committed." OOC:Dont turn into Biscotti please, it gets old. [/quote] [b]Public Statement By Triumvir Gildas[/b] Edean is surprised to see that the Umbrella Commonwealth has chosen to bar Gallifrey from it's waters for no apparent reason, while leaving the Peruvian Imperium off the list. The PI is actually waging war with the UC, while Gallifrey is not - it's a rather bizarre turn of events indeed. One has to wonder if someone snuck something into my kool-aid, or if I've inhaled a little too much of the radioactive fallout cloud in this war. In the meantime however, this action only further hinders the already difficult economic situation in South America. On account of this, the price of shipping for many products will likely rise for the country of Gallia and to a somewhat lesser extent, Neo Roma while prices for goods in Gallifrey and the UC will also increase on account of this. Things are already in a mess and if this continues it will soon be out of our collective hands. Whatever bickering has led to this affair - calmer heads must prevail. The entirety of South America cannot be at each others throats and survive. Once again, we encourage the nations of this region to pause in their actions and consider a region-wide discussion to avert disaster. OOC: You guys might not RP it, but seriously? The patchwork of complexities that are slowly being added onto this affair would be devastating to the South American economy. Value is literally being lost so that the economy can actually drop below it's normal bottomed out value. On account of these, it might actually be cheaper or even necessary for certain products to be shipped in from North America then to find ways through the patchwork of South American political problems.

[quote name='Executive Minister' timestamp='1332977444' post='2944560'] If i had to spend two years with the fear that the trollbrigade could come at any moment and fire cms at me while I built my tech up to stronger levels, then any !@#$@#$ newbie that joins needs to do the same. No goal post moving. [/quote] We fought during those times for days when we could actually make sure that Lavo and friends wouldn't happen again - or at least that we wouldn't become them by using our tech as an instant claim to victory over other nations.

[quote name='Generalissimo' timestamp='1332967206' post='2944468'] Procinctia Armament has enough prefabricated modular building constructions to house everyone!All stored in South American warehouses. . . Procinctia’s government-in-exile merely lacks means to actually get them to Bear Island. [/quote] Free Edean White Cross Our engineers believe they have an idea. First, if you can give us a location for the South American warehouses, we can move shipping through the region to try and bring it north - although admittedly finding free shipping vessels not acquired by other competing firms will prove quite difficult in the wake of the recent land-based travel restrictions. We should be able to acquire some ships however to begin bringing some of these units to their requested destinations in Procinctia. Beyond this, we have other ideas as well. We propose utilizing the larger vessels that have approached from Canada to produce an extended living quarters for refugees. Concrete Pillar structures will be placed along the sides of the vessels which will allow them to be held in place and held from underneath from sinking. The ships will be placed radially from points on the island and then connected to land via air-bridges, which will not only connect the craft to the shore, but will also connect the craft to one another allow individual to move from vessel to vessel. At the same time, efforts will be under way to restructure the inside of the ships with materials to form a series of apartments for each of the residents, while more permanent solutions can be devised on the remaining land of Procintia through the private market. Small communities can then be set up on each of the ships, with soil even being placed along the tops for small parks for the residents to enjoy, or to produce small community gardens for food. By using the structures of the ships themselves to provide living space for many of the individuals in an orderly mannerism we should be able to accommodate the difficulties associated with this complexity. Over time with some effort by those on board, perhaps you could transform these floating systems into floating cities akin to the Lillypad design: [center][img]http://www.funis2cool.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/lilypad-floating-city-05.jpg[/img][/center] Materials and support could be added to the ships until the formed a beautiful well thought out community.

Add something new - but don't destroy the old because... well, people already live there.

[quote name='Evangeline Anovilis' timestamp='1332964084' post='2944447'] For once I'm with Triyun on this. This is CNRP. Throwing a stat like tech out the window... What next? A million soldiers for everyone? [/quote] Role play is not a competitive sport. This isn't a giant game of risk - this is CNRP. Role Play. That means you enjoy the game because you play a role, not because you can dominate another person by beating them up. That's about as low as when bullies get a high off of beating up some smaller kid simply because they're smaller and then the adults go in and say, "hey, that's just like in real life when they get older - they just have to get used to being beat up now while they're young.' If stats weren't used to bully other players around and simply used to create an interesting atmosphere, then hey, that might be cool if both sides had pros and cons. However, the equation only goes one way, the one side has pros and pros and the other side has cons and cons. Who the heck wants to play a game where they're constantly being beaten up and begging for their existence - even if they were just looking for the role play. It's an annoying power trip that was old when I was a much younger nation and it's still annoying today.

I fully endorse this idea. Technology makes for stat-based role-play and stat-based role-play is often times badly done role play.

Short answer: no. Why is there another thread about CN and technology - I posted my answer over there ("No") and my ideas stand similar over here as well. Wide-ranging technology, while it exists in real life is degrading to players and treats them like junk. Even the rebels in Iraq use cell-phone based IEDs that would never be possible back in WWII. We live in a different age then WWII and some tech is more easily accessible then others. Techno-babble occurred before as well, it was just those of us attempting to argue that such-and-such a technology existed during the 1960s that is in use today but never took off because it was ahead of it's time. I was born in Generation Y, I don't relate to 1945 - it's old and most of the people that were fighting back then are dead or on their way out. If you want to stop the technobabble (and I do admit to loving techno babble as much as you military nerds love your military militarybabble and history buffs love their historybabble) then make the system fair for all. Keep the logarithmic system or better yet, make sure that everyone can RP at the same level and throw out the technology stat altogether. --------------- EDIT: I will however note, that I am in favor of the map part. Just expand the horizontal nature of the map or even add a second planet to the solar system (heck with Mars and the laws of physics, create a duplicate earth on the shadow side of the sun with differing geography. However, while the land should be made to be interesting for players, it should at the same time make sure that fairness is in play. Hence, it's a bad idea to grant the capacity to create one's own island and drop it in there - because otherwise you'll end up with lands built as their own defense structures. I even have a world map from the N&S games I talked about in the other thread available for the world of Nevarian in the perfect format for doing this and would happily allow them to be used: [center][IMG]http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f368/pascal19/Neverian.png[/IMG][/center] [center][IMG]http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f368/pascal19/NeverianBorders.png[/IMG][/center] I specifically designed these worlds to be interesting and strategically 'fun' so there should be plenty to do with them if you want to use them.

Maybe we should actually implement a economic limitations. Edean already has formulas and I'm not entirely opposed to throwing them out there: National Population = IG Population x 300 National GDP = DailyTaxCollection x 30 x 1000 Tax Returns = GDP x IncomeTax% Time Scale, 1 month OOC = 1 year IC (you get the above funds to play around with every year - character aging and whatnot can take less or more time) This might seem like it grants a lot of money, but unless you spend your entire Taxation on your your military budget and all of your military budget on planes, it really doesn't amount to that much, which is why Edean has been forced to request export planes, not even buying much in the way of MBTs for it's forces (only hummer transports or maybe splurging on a helicopter) and what not. That's only going to get worse over time as most of the economic routes have been cut off because of certain wars and species limitations through the north. When you actually have to run an economic budget, the game gets a tad bit more complicated, but significantly more fun. Maybe what needs to be said is that we really really really need to have IG limitations on economics. ---------------------- As far as LOLTech - I also have another idea. I used to GM in a few other nation games over on another page, N&S: War & Peace, N&S: New Era and took on a similar position in N&S: Reborn. In all of these games, in order to use some kind of custom unit, you had to have it approved by a GM and to limit GM spamming you were limited to how many new technologies you could produce in game - about ten slots there (with far fewer players), with growth over time. So then, one possible way of getting around this, would be to use a slot based approval system rather then trying to use a tech based system. A nation starts out with three total slots, this can be grown by having their IG tech raised by an additional 1000 tech. Without using a slot, let's say any nation can utilize any known weapons up until present time that any nations outside the US could field, or any US plane in service up till 1995 to make things more even (avoiding LOL US wins - you lose). Using a slot however, you can develop a special technology up until the year 2035. So, maybe some special stealth fighter or bomber or what not. Of course, these techs are particularly powerful, but EVERYONE can have them (their particular schtick) and on top of it all, they can sell their units to other nations, making weapons trade at least far more feasible and nations more interdependent. One could also work on stuff outside of one's military with these slots as well - it's all a matter of story. So that would place all game players on an even playing field tech wise, forcing them to limit their submissions to something they believe a GM would approve of and it would even force you to consider carefully what type of units you wish to develop - because you're limited by tech levels.

Free Edean welcomes the people of Naharayim to the world and we hope this will prove to be yet another step towards their individual freedom and happiness.

[quote name='Subtleknifewielder' timestamp='1332908062' post='2944093'] Alternately, we could stop pushing the scale forward when we hit a new year. Poof! Problem solved, and everyone has time to adjust. [/quote] What does that necessarily change by the way?

[quote name='Voodoo Nova' timestamp='1332902582' post='2943967'] The F-22 is in full use at its current stage. The only reason we don't see it replacing the entire air force is money-related. To the scale: I'm in favor of dropping the cap to 2020 from the current system, or going with this idea with lesser tech levels for the tiers. [/quote] Money related reasons are also why we don't do a lot of things. Money is just as much a function of technology as everything else - you have to wait for the technology to increase so that costs decrease. I believe that if we went here, the F-22 and it's F-35 sibling need to be banned as well (outside of the US, most of the planet which is at 2012 tech can't build them anyways). It becomes a kind of god-plane that wipes out any other type of aircraft from the sky in total without taking losses. It the very definition of a god-mod in role-playing, whether it's true in reality or not. When your airplane can wipe out an entire squadron of F-15s without taking a loss - that's ridiculous. This entirely change to the scale brings back the days of old where you had this single upper class of advanced tech users who did as they pleased and used the lower tech nations as their whipping boys - it also brings back the days of boringness where EVERYONE has nothing but the latest US fighter and no one has anything but US fighters. I really really really, dislike the idea of pulling everything back tech wise because I very much enjoy the technological aspect of the game as it is - it's a step forward. If you do need to do this though, you can go with the system mentioned - it's over too wide a time scale and it grants too much of an advantage to nations in the super-tech range. You'd need a logarithmic scale like Lynneth made, but with a lower end-point. Once again though, that's extremely boring.