Moridin
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Posts posted by Moridin
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No. Alliance-wide terms are appropriate. These are an obvious attempt to divide and obviously gloat. The chilling part is not so much NPO's "merciful" presentation of such terms but the rapid statements of support from the various slave alliances. Interesting sociological phenomenon at the very least. Nice to see that any type of amorality is rationalized away quickly by so many. Bravo, speaks well of CN's future (dominated apparently by Orwell's image of a boot smashing eternally into a human face).
You could have saved a lot of trouble and vocabulary by just saying "NPO ruined the game!"
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http://www.cybernations.net/allAlliances_display.asp?
"none" occupies the first two slots.
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I find it humorous that the NPO is arguing that they are not fascist when earlier in this topic TrotskysRevenge tried to silence the opposition by announcing that the person who created this topic would not get surrender terms. That is a characteristic of fascism.
Not giving surrender terms is characteristic of fascism? Somehow the ideology that the state is greater than the individual results in not giving surrender terms to rogue nations?
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Moridin's Birthday War?
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Yes, clearly. Actually, I've mostly been responding to your accusations of trolling, so who is the true troll?
Eufemio Zapata, I am actually rather tired of your posts myself - if you have nothing to say other than "go away", don't post and send me a PM instead. This is like the 4th time you repeat yourself. There is a moderation forum, if you think I am hi-jacking.
This entire issue arose from you somehow concluding that discussion of Nazism was inevitable in a thread that had something to do with an alliance whose founder in another game chose a screen name after a Spanish leader. I'll happily leave this thread if you concede that you are completely full of it.
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I would, if there was a point made. You said I keep a factual opinion of Franco in my mind and yet I am out to steal the babies and kill the children and what not. This is simply not true, as I mentioned in my post above - I am not out to get you.
You clearly have something against the New Pacific Order because you've been trolling for ten pages.
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I am coming to the conclusion that it's not the enemies of NPO that have a persecution complex, but the Orders themselves. Yes, that's right, I am out to get you.That was a wonderful red herring. Care to respond to the actual point?
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See the part where I said that I keep it in mind. The point is, that I wanted to get all the facts in to make a decision. Besides, there might be someone playing CN now that was around that time in NS and is not currently NPO.
You keep the evidently factual account of Franco in mind but subsequently ignore it entirely to pursue your crusade against the evil fascist New Pacific Order.
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That's correct. I did ask for a primary account, but I did not say that I would believe whatever came out the mouth of the side who has to gain the most from it, did I? Would you believe all the propaganda given by NPO? That would be foolish. I keep what Vladimir said in mind, but as I mentioned, I would not be surprised if it were not the full truth.
Why did you ask for a primary account if you weren't going to believe the only people who would be able to give it?
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Very Interesting Post, Don't You All Agree?
Yes, I Think That This Evidence Presents An Interesting Case Against Terry Howard; I Anticipate His Response.
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Wow great point. And then cut off the rest of my 3 line post in mid-sentence. I am not even bothered to write much of a response, I already wrote it in the post you quoted and then cut up.
I nevertheless responded to the useless part of your post that I cut off. Since clearly you didn't realize this, I'll say the same thing but with the entire quote:
That argument could hold its ground. The difference is that nobody knows how Franco acted - the only side that has spoken about it has a lot to gain by saying he did not RP fascism. It's probably not an outright lie, but NPO has twisted completely obvious things in the past, I would not be surprised if they are twisting something now.Vladimir does. You asked for a primary account of it, you got it, and now you're saying it's not valid.
Now feel free to respond.
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That argument could hold its ground. The difference is that nobody knows how Franco acted
Vladimir does. You asked for a primary account of it, you got it, and now you're saying it's not valid.
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My second argument has been valid. Notice that for my first argument, I was the one who requested clarification - because I actually care about the truth instead of mindless propaganda and trolling. However, I did not say a name means nothing of substance, I only said it does not mean that a nation models itself after it. The thoughts of the player, and his motivations for choosing the name do not change. Do not try to put words into my mouth. The only thing I said besides that is that I do not consider NPO members to be fascists (and never have
- such thinking is ridiculous - I carry my arguments IC instead of making attacks on the players).What is your argument anymore? You did not know Franco, the only person in this thread who did has confirmed his nation was not fascist, nor did he RP one. You cannot substantiate any claim that he had certain motives or thoughts in naming his nation. For all you know he might've been looking at the Wikipedia page earlier that day.
The simple fact is that you know nothing on the subject and as such your arguments are nothing.
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There is a difference between saying a name is a reference to something (even Vladimir is not denying that) and saying the actual RP of the nation is modeled after it.
Oh come on.
As mentioned previously, it's not clear what your name is a reference to. Francos Spain is not obscure, and references a strong idea - fascism. It's like saying someone named themselves Hitler for absolutely no reason in a game all about role playing. It just does not make sense, no matter which way you spin it.You are clearly saying here that the only explanation for the name is that Franco wanted to roleplay a fascist. Vladimir has informed that he did no such thing. Why are you still here?
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As mentioned previously, it's not clear what your name is a reference to. Francos Spain is not obscure, and references a strong idea - fascism. It's like saying someone named themselves Hitler for absolutely no reason in a game all about role playing. It just does not make sense, no matter which way you spin it.I did ask for that, you don't see me claiming that his nation was modeled after fascism since Vladimir said that, do you? That, however, is not the end all and be all. I made the response to that comment in the beginning of this page.
Hi.
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How is this still going? West of Eden, you simply asked for someone who was present at the time to say that Franco was indeed not a fascist. That has happened, now you're simply grasping at straws, if you weren't before.
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I was there when Francos Spain was around, and I remember that he did not run his nation after fascism.
I believe this is over then.
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So you are saying that even though he was named Francos Spain he didn't behave like Francisco Franco and so he wasn't Francisco Franco.
I believe that is exactly what he is saying.
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My point is that naming yourself Francos Spain and not even considering Franco's Spain or Fransisco Franco would be a huge coincidence. It does not necessarily mean that the nation is modeled after fascist Spain but in NS, names of players tended to hold more importance than here in CN due to the bigger role play aspect of it. What's more is that whether you RP your nation and character after your name depends on how strong a reference your name refers to. For instance, if someone named themselves Hitler, then I am certain that you would associate that person with Nazi's; if someone named themselves something fairly obscure like Moridin, then not so much. In the case of Francos Spain, the reference to fascism is evident enough for a game like NS and fascism itself is not an obscure topic. Judging on works written by Vladimir, and his talk that Pacifica was not an easy place to live in during Francos' time, I am drawn closer to the idea that at least some fascism made its way into cornerstones of the region/alliance.
I do not believe anyone thinks he came up with the name on his own; however, that does not mean he styled his nation after that time period in Spain's history. I have already addressed the Hitler issue as well.
As for the name Moridin, you failed to address my other example, that being my nation name from NS. Mordor is not by any means obscure, yet how did I manage to avoid conflict with the region Rohan, in which I resided?
What is interesting is that nobody has come out and outright said "I was there when Francos Spain was around, and I remember that he did not run his nation after fascism". Zhadum said that I have not provided proof that he did, but judging by the fact that he was not a founding member of NPO in CN, he was not around at the time of its founding in NS.The burden of proof is on you to prove that he had anything to do with fascism.
It's his name! Gosh dangit! It's like naming yourself Richard Nixon and saying that the name doesn't mean anything or isn't referring to that person.Again, a name is nothing more than a name. It does not matter from where it is drawn. The burden of proof is on you to show that any particular person fashioned their playstyle to fit a real-life name they assumed for an Internet game.
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The guessing was rather funny, but also pointless. Enter my name into Google, and the first result that comes up is the correct one. Incidentally, enter "Francos Spain" into google and the first results that come up are articles on Francisco Franco and Spain under Franco.
Was that a response to Vladimir or to myself? If it was a response to Vladimir then I'd love it if you could respond to my earlier post.
What if somebody had a nation with something more extreme such as Mr.Hilter'sGermany.You could make the argument that the name means nothing and he wasn't modeling his nation after a fascist.
The clear difference is that everyone who frequents the Internet knows that Nazi-related screen names are never welcomed by most any community, and thus will only use that name with the clear purpose of drawing a reaction or promoting Nazism. There are no such unwritten rules about Franco - at least in the United States - so it's "up for grabs" if you will.
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Er...Uh...with all the people that the NpO and NPO have perma-ZI'ed, can you really claim that? Hell, with all the people perma-ZI'ed by anyone, can you really claim that?
If you want to maintain that line though, I'd be happy to join you
.I've already been through the entire perma-ZI discussion, so have many other Order members. I can continue this in PM if you wish, as to not derail the thread.
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It would be rather find to "find evidence" of exactly how one person ran his nation five years ago in an online game. Regardless, tell me that Francos Spain is just a horrible coincidence, and that not at all does it refer to Spain under Franco or Fransisco Franco.
Anyway, I am letting this thread on topic, but I thought I'd point it out.
I named my nation in NS "Mordor and Haradwaith"; does that mean I tried model it after evil lands from Lord of the Rings? Of course not. My CN ruler name is Moridin, does that mean I run my nation as the antagonist from the Wheel of Time series would? Of course not.
In an online game, a name is a name and nothing more. To say he ran it as a fascist nation would require evidence beyond a mere screen name.
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To demonstrate that Francos Spain, your founder, (Franco's Spain) named himself in the game after a RL fascist leader, and modeled his nation after a fascist Spain. If Francos Spain was just any name, then how could I say that it's at all related to fascism?
You might remember this, which triggered the entire discussion:
Talk of Nazi's in a thread about an alliance founded by a guy who named himself after a fascist (Francisco Franco) and modeled his nation after fascist Spain? How unlikely!Your ultimate point was to somehow say that because the founder of an alliance decided to name his country after a real life leader who practiced a political ideology that is similar in a few ways to Nazi Germany, that it logically follows that Nazism would be discussed in a thread having to do with the said alliance.
I hope you see why the majority of us are confused.
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and from what I've read on NPO in NS, it reeks of nationalism and even the NPO here has some similar ideas.Second, even if I had said you were nationalists or fascists (which I have not, I doubt that most of your membership is even aware of these facts since I was part and have never heard a discussion on it.
Hmm.
Hmmmmmmmmm.
So, I have a question: Why do you even bother bringing up the real life Franco? How does it apply to any discussion we're having? As far as I can tell the original reference was simply a red herring.
I am coming to the conclusion that it's not the enemies of NPO that have a persecution complex, but the Orders themselves. Yes, that's right, I am out to get you.
- such thinking is ridiculous - I carry my arguments IC instead of making attacks on the players).
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Margrave Finds A Door Out
in Open World Forum
Posted · Edited by Moridin
Farewell, and good luck.
Does this mean the Fan Club must see its end as well?