Moridin
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Posts posted by Moridin
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Can't wait for the announcement where Vox doesn't recognize IRON as an alliance, but an Imperial Orange Colony.
It's more likely than you think.
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1. You are all hypocrites. If spying is so bad then why do it at all? For any reason? Vox Populi are hypocrites for supporting such an action and GGA are hypocrites for doing the same. Oh and GGA, who the hell are YOU to tell ANY of us what makes an alliance? As long as the game's administrator says it's kosher you don't get an opinion. No matter how much you cry about it.
Congratulations on completely missing the point of this statement. You could always try actually reading something before responding.
2. You are all attention whores. See number 1. Also, if you weren't... You would NEVER post on here for any reason. The only reason anyone EVER posts on here is to draw attention to themselves and their alliances. The reason you have unique signatures and avatars is to draw attention to your posts. In a room full of whores calling someone else a whore is laughable.We have actually made very few announcements of late.
3. Someone seriously needs to take some of you back to school. Seriously, your teachers probably weep and drink during class as a result of your laughable attempts at "intelligent discourse". On both sides. Seriously how can you people insult someone's intelligence when you:a) Don't view the evidence.
b) Use insults instead of debate the issue at hand.
c) Can't read or write beyond a second grade level.
d) Rely on catchy slogans and recycled phraseology.
e) Refuse to acknowledge even the other side's position at all ( Plugging your ears and singing "La,la,la I can't hear you!" is not the way you make your point and only come off looking like an obstinate, ignorant jackass.)
So let me get this straight. You decry us for using "insults", then turn around and say we "can't read or write beyond a second grade level"? And we are the hypocrites? You clearly did not read the OP by the first couple of lines of your post, or else you'd know our stance on the GGA spying. You then make a nice long post accusing us of all sorts of things all the while ignoring our actual point. It makes you look, if I may say, rather obstinate and ignorant.
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You only wish I'd come back. Actually you didn't kick me, Starfox101 did.
I will gladly accept the 3 mil and GGA will get 3 mil $ richer. You guys generously donate to ODN and IRON, why should GGA be left out?
I'm not sure anyone would really want you to come back, though you joining might be an effective way to get me out of the alliance as quickly as possible.
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I had a cameo! My one line was beautifully delivered, if I may say so myself.
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Actually they don't. When a bloc goes to war, The various alliances agree on rules
of engagement. If spying is deemed acceptable under their rules of engagement, Then spying
is an accepted tactic. Bloc rules of engagement trumps alliance charters. Whether you like it or not, sir, it is within the rules of engagement for GGA to spy on you.
If this was peace time, Then, yes you could cry charter violation.
The coalitions accepted rules of engagement nullifies the anti spying clauses of GGA's charter.
I realize that it is 'within the rules of engagement' for them to spy on us, as there are no rules of engagement (OOC: at least in an IC sense). I am just wondering why they need to break their charter to obtain some useless information.
There is no past precedent of any sort that says charters are invalidated during war, and I can't think of any alliance that has deemed their charter so. If you could point me to where the Coalition said their member's charters did not apply and that they condoned spying, it would be nice.
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Sooo, It is OK for Vox to spy on GGA and friends. but it is somehow wrong when GGA returns the favor. This is war, dude, Charters do not apply.
Charters don't apply in war? Seriously?
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Her assumption from my understanding is that the members of Vox Populi elected to those positions have moderator access to your forums. Whether they do or not I don't know personally. But one assumption that I can make is that if Vox is hiding who runs their forums, then those people don't want to be discovered. Seems like a reasonable assumption that, if Vox has a problem with us wishing to know who runs their forums, then they aren't prepared to deal with whatever we wish to use that information for.
And I personally consider having the power to decide who is and isn't in Vox Populi as a factor for running it.
No. We aren't hiding it. I provided you a link to the relevant information not ten minutes ago. Maybe if you'd actually read what I wrote you wouldn't keep repeating the same invalidated arguments.
And I personally consider having the power to decide who is and isn't in Vox Populi as a factor for running it.OOC: I will admit, you're really starting to get on my nerves here. I can remove a mask on a forum designed to help organize the alliance. I can remove from an access list for a channel designed to help organize the alliance. I have no power whatsoever to expel a member.
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Actually that's exactly what ironchef asked. Obviously you have no "government" by the way you guys have chosen to define it. You do however have people who are actively making the decision to remove people from your forums (as moderators), and by extension from Vox Populi
Keep trying to squeeze it in there, maybe someday it'll get by.
so those people fit our definition of government. And if you're interested in informing us who administrates your boards, then I will be well-receptive of that. It could be that you believe what Misr believes, and that we wish to know who your moderators are for the purpose of adding you to our perma-ZI lists. If you wish to hide that information out of that particular fear, then that's your decision. It's a bit cowardly if you ask me, but it's your decision.[18:41] <Misr[ZI]> <ironchef> The Shout: Responsible for coordinating Mass Messages.
[18:41] <Misr[ZI]> <ironchef> The Whisper: Responsible for coordinating with our allies, and making new allies.
[18:41] <Misr[ZI]> <ironchef> The Growl: Responsible for coordinating attacks and defence.
[18:41] <Misr[ZI]> <ironchef> The Cry: Responsible for coordinating announcements.
[18:41] <Misr[ZI]> <ironchef> The Murmur: Responsible for coordinating these forums.
[18:41] <Misr[ZI]> <ironchef> The Cheer: Responsible for coordinating trade and aid.
[18:41] <Misr[ZI]> <ironchef> who are they
[18:41] <Misr[ZI]> <ironchef> you still have a mask and I want to know how they are
[18:41] <Misr[ZI]> <ironchef> Vox said they dont have a Gov I know they do
[18:41] <Misr[ZI]> <ironchef> that is the gov
Ironchef was inquiring as to the (failed) elected positions. These did not (Except for the Murmur) correspond to administrative/moderation powers on forums and IRC. Ironchef was not asking for a list of admins. I'm not sure where the random "coward!" accusation came from, but it sure doesn't seem to have any relevance to the issue at hand.
And maybe condemning those members is a potential start. I find it funny half of Vox condemned Theone22 for his actions, and the other half praised him for using whatever tactics necessary for fighting the enemy. The two-headed monster thing is about three weeks too old.The right to one's opinion is just the darndest thing, isn't it?
And keeping a clean forum and IRC is assuming you have some sort of power as to who is a member of Vox Populi, both on the forums and on IRC. Sounds like a government action to me....no, it's not. Keeping a clean forum and IRC is assuming I have some sort of power over forums and IRC, which I do.
And any alliance would have no problem revealing who runs it. Obviously the case is different with Vox Populi. Perhaps the people who run it are afraid of being added to some perma-ZI list as Misr assumes we planned to do once he told us who runs your forums?Again, you keep trying to insinuate that someone "runs" Vox Populi. Give me some actual reason to believe you, rather than trying to imply that a clean forum equates to government.
OOC: If you think administators are magically government as well, go here and have fun!
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I'd suggest you read Yala's post which I quoted in mine.
I did, and I'm still confused as to how the percentage of war mode nations in anarchy has to do with any hypothetical governments.
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When Echelon get's into half the trouble Vox is in, your statement will have some validity. How many non peace mode nations do you have that aren't in anarchy?
What does that have to do with anything?
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So you coordinate IRC and forum moderation in a leadership channel restricted to the founding members of Vox Populi? So basically the founders are the government members?
Your first sentence was to some degree true, and the second sentence was both blatantly untrue and also had no relation to the first sentence. Perhaps you could expand upon how trying to keep a clean IRC channel and forums equates to being government?
Additionally, you conveniently missed my previous point, so I'll make it again so you don't miss it this time.
The fact that you keep spitting out the same crap over and over again and never addressing the fact that you guys are breaking your own charter is what is frustrating. I don't care if you know who administrates our boards, and that is not the information ironchef was after either, so this whole thing is one big straw man designed to shift the conversation away to the GGA's obvious violation of their own charter and towards a meaningless attack on Vox. If you really want to know who administrates our boards, Cheyenne, Doitzel, Starfox, and myself come to mind, though I'm sure there's more.
I'm not sure why you keep pushing the idea of a double standard in Vox about whether or not we are an alliance. We are an alliance in that we have something of a common goal and organize ourselves to further that goal. However, other than our forums and IRC we have no way to hold members accountable for their actions. If you have some suggestions, I would like to hear them.
OOC: I do not make the IC decision to expel a member, I make the OOC decision to remove their mask on a board I administrate because I do not want such a person to have the privilege of posting and reading those boards. I cannot expel members in the traditional sense.
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This. Also I have to wonder why, if Vox has no leaders, do they have a leadership IRC channel
Seems a bit contradictory We have an IRC channel generally restricted to the founding members, but it has seen very little use since the first couple of days of Vox's existence. It holds no real purpose other than the rare discussions about IRC and forum moderation, and the general kind of discussion on CN events that can be found in most channels.
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Yet you make the IC decision to expel a member. My question is that why is this so hidden? Why does Vox Populi get all riled when someone attempts to find out who is administering your boards? Generally the assumption is that the administrators are the leaders. I mean, you ARE making the decision for who can and can't be in your alliance...
The fact that you keep spitting out the same crap over and over again and never addressing the fact that you guys are breaking your own charter is what is frustrating. I don't care if you know who administrates our boards, and that is not the information ironchef was after either, so this whole thing is one big straw man designed to shift the conversation away to the GGA's obvious violation of their own charter and towards a meaningless attack on Vox. If you really want to know who administrates our boards, Cheyenne, Doitzel, Starfox, and myself come to mind, though I'm sure there's more.
I'm not sure why you keep pushing the idea of a double standard in Vox about whether or not we are an alliance. We are an alliance in that we have something of a common goal and organize ourselves to further that goal. However, other than our forums and IRC we have no way to hold members accountable for their actions. If you have some suggestions, I would like to hear them.
OOC: I do not make the IC decision to expel a member, I make the OOC decision to remove their mask on a board I administrate because I do not want such a person to have the privelege of posting and reading those boards. I cannot expel members in the traditional sense.
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Again, who makes the determination that these people are unfit for membership in Vox Populi? Determining that you or someone else has the authority to make that distinction puts you as government. If it was Doitzel, then Doitzel fits into the profile of "government member." And no, I don't buy that "everyone" makes the decision if a member is unfit or not. You have a collective of people who decide to remove people or not, and to insist otherwise is dodging the true nature of how you guys operate.
OOC: The distinction is that some of us have administrative powers on off-site forums. We can mask and demask as we see fit; however, we have no charter to provide a way to officially 'expel' a member nor can we dictate how a person styles their in-game affiliation. Administrating forums is a necessity of any alliance, and we provide that service. We have no power in an IC capacity.
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You guys don't have a government according to you right? So how can you accept or reject surrender terms for the whole alliance?
Stop tripping yourself up.
And how would you expect we accept them? Presumably, the lack of acceptance would then be a rejection of the terms.
Or we could just vote.
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No alliance is going to nab another alliance for spying for finding out who government members are. Unfortunately, we can't compare because the Grand Global ALLIANCE doesn't privatize who the leaders are while the Vox Populi TERRORIST ORGANIZATION does.
Wow! You can arbitrarily put a label on us! You must be very proud of yourself.
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Cowardly: Come out of peace mode and say that Vox :jihad:
Liars: And having Doitzel around *cough*
So you can 3v1 us? Yes, I'm sure that takes incredible amounts of bravery.
And please show me where Doitzel has lied. Thanks.
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I'd be perfectly fine with GGA spying if they didn't try to hide behind the cover of their charter and claim they don't. Every alliance spies, be it the NPO, GGA, NpO, or many, many others. While I wonder what exactly they expect to gain from spying on Vox, other than a failed election for positions of no real power, it'd be nice if they at least came out publicly and admitted it and amended their charter to match it.
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I cannot tell a lie R_V
You might want to think about a change of alliance then!
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Does it really matter? we have none...
That only adds to my confusion as to why it's in the terms.
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Though the chances are low, it is still possible. I guess it can also be said is how did the Greenland Republic oversee that? They agreed to the terms after all. (I would even go off on a limb and suggest that some of the people who signed the peace treaty didn't even read the terms... just rubber stamped their name on it)
Anyways, congratulations once again, Greenland Republic.
Yes, I'm wondering how GR missed it as well. Did I say otherwise?
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This is a bold face lie. You and I both know that we had a ten page thread about what horrendous torture we would put Slayer through should we find him.
(aside) I've got a reputation to upkeep here man. :angry:
You weren't supposed to reveal that
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Surely it was an over site. There is no need critique them in that fashion for that.
M. Heket
How can you make an oversight in terms of surrender that seven alliances signed? Presumably, they are making these terms from the ground up. Surely they weighed the importance and characteristics of different wonders when ordering their decomission? Surely someone, of the nearly 40 people who signed these terms, realized you can't decomission Manhattan Projects?
Edited for increased incredulity.
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Good luck trying to decomission your Manhattan Projects.
Seriously, do the people offering these terms even look at what they're writing?
Seems a bit contradictory 
Yep. Another One
in Alliance Politics
Posted
Then why do you think we are holding some double standard on spying? Although you claim to have read the OP, I suspect if you had you might've realized that we are not opposed to spying in and of itself, but rather that the GGA is willing to break their own charter in order to gain worthless information from us.