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fuzz227

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It seems to me that during every war, people always bring up "so and so" alliance has lined up against us. Is it that alliances fault that their treaty partners before the last conflict and into the present one are the same? Gramlins saying that IRON has consistently stayed on the opposite side of the spectrum from them really makes no sense to me.

After a war, should the losing party just tell all their friends to go to hell and suck up to whoever beat them? Should they just attempt to treaty to everyone so that way they can ensure they will survive whatever conflict might come next?

I am not really understanding what people are looking for an alliance to do after is loses a war. If they ditch their treaty partners who have stood by them for sometimes years just to suck the teet of whoever just won, they will get ridiculed for doing just that. However, if they do nothing, they get told they are a joke of an alliance because their leadership didn't change sides. Is this just something that will always be? The losers will be told they suck as an alliance no matter what?

This just doesn't make sense to me. Can anyone clue me in on what an alliance is actually supposed to do once they surrender? I know sometimes, allies are gained through mutual respect gained fighting on opposite sides. Other times, hatred is forged.

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Actually its far more simple than that fuzz, if an alliance is on teh opposite side of the treaty web, they "suck" and if they are on the same side of the web they "rock" That might be cynical, but I think its pretty close to the truth. I try to think beyond terms of that, but its easy to get sucked in.

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Then how are they supposed to change? If they keep their allies who they have been friends with forever, they "choose" to go opposite others. If they try and keep their long time allies, the other side will often reject them for those ties. If they drop their ties in hopes of getting in good with those who have previously opposed them, they get branded like MHA and Sparta for always choosing the winning side. Is there any decent option?

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Considering it was Gremlins that switched sides, and not IRON, in that case yes it is stupid.

Nobody switched sides,

It's just political expediancy has seen Gre face off against IRON in the last 2 major wars

In Karma, Gre could not go against NPO due to ties with MHA, IRON would have issued serious damage to several Gre allies at the top end unless Gre came in, so TOP was pacified, IRON agreed to wave terms on the NAP and the rest is history

This time Gre was faced with the agression of TOP and IRON against there allies, as hitting TOP was not an option IRON was the target,

That said, god alone knows what Ram hopes to accomplish, IRON are once again well beaten and holding there top level in permanent peace mode alone, over a war that Gre wasn't a central player in makes no sense at all

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Then how are they supposed to change? If they keep their allies who they have been friends with forever, they "choose" to go opposite others. If they try and keep their long time allies, the other side will often reject them for those ties. If they drop their ties in hopes of getting in good with those who have previously opposed them, they get branded like MHA and Sparta for always choosing the winning side. Is there any decent option?

You change, get criticised, suck it up and (in theory) prove the haters wrong~

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Is this just something that will always be? The losers will be told they suck as an alliance no matter what?

Exactly! But it shouldn't matter much as this kind of arguments is silly enough for you to safely ignore it.

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Why the hell did they do that anyway? :huh: "Oh sure go ahead and put us all in anarchy 3 days sooner, we don't mind"?

It's complicated but it essentially amounted to blackmail.

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It's complicated but it essentially amounted to blackmail.

In a not so complicated world! I call it Friends>Infra. Beside, Gre is also vastly overrated, simple cuz of the lack of numbers they had and stil has.

More then one event took place the first waves of Karma. A stupid move by IRON him self in the first wave

made sure the total damage they took in the first 2 waves ending up and cost em alot for the rest of the Karma war.

Something you can see the effects of in C&G war, where most of the core have learn from the mistake they made and dich out more

damage to pretty much the same AA´s setup. The larger difference here is, In the C&G war, We all know its gone be a loooong war that will cost both the winner and the losers alot in the end. 2:nd Who will win or lose, Was not set in stone. More events took place even in the C&G war.

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I have a much higher opinion of Argent than most alliances on both sides, I don't think you need to suck up to anyone. While I wasn't fond of some of your treaty partners outside Citadel at first, I'm starting to like them more lately and think they are good allies.

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In a not so complicated world! I call it Friends>Infra. Beside, Gre is also vastly overrated, simple cuz of the lack of numbers they had and stil has.

More then one event took place the first waves of Karma. A stupid move by IRON him self in the first wave

made sure the total damage they took in the first 2 waves ending up and cost em alot for the rest of the Karma war.

Something you can see the effects of in C&G war, where most of the core have learn from the mistake they made and dich out more

damage to pretty much the same AA´s setup. The larger difference here is, In the C&G war, We all know its gone be a loooong war that will cost both the winner and the losers alot in the end. 2:nd Who will win or lose, Was not set in stone. More events took place even in the C&G war.

No. You are wrong.

GRE was not overrated due to their "lack of numbers", that's simply ridiculous. They were rated right where they should have been last war. This war, I would agree on the lack of activity making them overrated, but numbers means quite simply nothing in terms of how you fight. In fact, a smaller alliance like GRE that is highly selective typically does better in conflict (see MK, TOP, Umbrella, PC, etccccc).

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