ODN Election Results

[murtibing]

So some random nut job can't get into power and run the alliance into the ground. That's why alliances have check and balance.

 

In SPATR we simply don't allow stupid persons into Leadership. So we don't need "check and balance".

 

 

Alexio has given you a partial answer to the issue of checks and balances, although our system includes more layers than that, with a judicial branch as well as the legislative and executive.

 

To what end?

 

 

We also have an ombudsman with unfettered access to all areas to be the eyes and ears of the General Assembly, whose servants we all are.

 

Ombudsman? To what end? If member doesn't like something, they can leave.

Edited September 26, 2015 by murtibing

[Alexio15]

 
In SPATR we simply don't allow stupid persons into Leadership. So we don't need "check and balance".
 
 
 
To what end?
 
 
 
Ombudsman? To what end? If member doesn't like something, they can leave.

All democracies have them.

[Pingu]

The Ombudsman is for oversight. The role has no bearing on the right of exit, which naturally exists.

 

What you seem to be struggling with, murtibing, is that if an alliance is to be governed by the will of its members, rather than by a paramount leader or an oligarchy, then it needs a clear system or rules setting out how that will is to be discerned and translated into decisions. A democratic alliance will have different governing structures than an imperial one, an oligarchic one, an anarchic one and so on.

[murtibing]

All democracies have them.

 

 

The Ombudsman is for oversight. The role has no bearing on the right of exit, which naturally exists.

 

What you seem to be struggling with, murtibing, is that if an alliance is to be governed by the will of its members, rather than by a paramount leader or an oligarchy, then it needs a clear system or rules setting out how that will is to be discerned and translated into decisions. A democratic alliance will have different governing structures than an imperial one, an oligarchic one, an anarchic one and so on.

 

The separation of powers and ombudsman are not necessary traits of democratic alliance. But I guess you both mean that in democratic alliance they are needed because members may elect someone who is incompetent or outright stupid. So you have all this "separation of powers", "checks and balances" and so on to somewhat mitigate adverse effects of electing people to office by the means of popular vote.

Edited September 26, 2015 by murtibing

[kerschbs]

GATO never had an Ombudsman. They do have a divided system of power however.

[Pingu]

The separation of powers and ombudsman are not necessary traits of democratic alliance. But I guess you both mean that in democratic alliance they are needed because members may elect someone who is incompetent or outright stupid. So you have all this "separation of powers", "checks and balances" and so on to somewhat mitigate adverse effects of electing people to office by the means of popular vote.

If you have direct democracy, where all decisions are made by referendum, then no such system would be necessary. But in a representative democracy, checks and balances are desirable to avoid concentration of power. It is not a question of incompetence or stupidity, although such a system does provide a hedge against those vices - and we have seen the damage they can do in the politics of Bob - but of ensuring that the General Assembly's will can be effectively channeled through representative institutions and executed on their behalf.

I guess we mean what we say we mean, not what you say we mean. Edited September 26, 2015 by Pingu

[murtibing]

But in a representative democracy, checks and balances are desirable to avoid concentration of power.

 

So you don't want one person to have too much power. In SPATR this is solved much more easily without all this complications. (We are not democratic alliance, but the same method can be applied in democratic alliances).

 

 

It is not a question of incompetence or stupidity, although such a system does provide a hedge against those vices - and we have seen the damage they can do in the politics of Bob - but of ensuring that the General Assembly's will can be effectively channeled through representative institutions and executed on their behalf.

 

And who determines what constitutes "General Assembly's will"?

 

 

I guess we mean what we say we mean, not what you say we mean.

 

I based my guess on what Alexio15 said:

 

So some random nut job can't get into power and run the alliance into the ground. That's why alliances have check and balance. Mine is the chancellor's in my alliance. ODN have the senators.

 

I think he was quite clear that "checks and balances" exist to protect from stupidy of elected officials. And it makes sense to me - if officials are elected by popular vote, chances are that they will be incomptent or stupid. So you need these checks and balances to somewhat mitigate that.

[Isolatar]

If I'm not mistaken, the general assembly is the membership. 

[Pingu]

The General Assembly (GA) is the entirety of the membership, apart from the Senate. Their will is determined through these representative institutions, working in balance and in dialogue with the GA, confirmed by periodic elections, observed by oversight mechanisms.

[Omniscient1]

Why the hell would anyone have OsRavan, Max Cristof, or Pingu in gov?

Congrats to you all.