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The True Face of the Karma Coalition

Eretz Yisrael

Entry posted by Eretz Yisrael

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Karmaic "Justice"

The loose coalition of alliances dedicated to hating and bringing down the New Pacific Order known collectively as "Karma" is the fourth such incarnation of an organization. In a world where politics and everything accompanying politics is the main course for many people here, it should be obvious by now that we are all aware of political science and history's adages, cliches, terms, and phrases.

You say you want change from our tyrannical ways, you say you want to liberate the Red Sphere from our tyrannical oppression, and you say you want to stop us from unjustly posing our will and greed on alliances we have rightly or wrongly obliterated. You say what goes around comes around, and we are getting our just desserts, right?

The fact is, as presented by Gen. Lee, leader of Ragnarok, that you are nothing more than the same group of NPO hating alliances that have formed in the past three years. Groups that hide behind a moral high ground, posing as liberators and the White Knight in Shining Armour to the Cyberverse. You say you want things to change, to break the vicious cycle we've been perpetrating since the War of Retribution (Spring 2007). Then what do you call this?

Gen_Lee: i got the job of messenger

[9:29pm] Gen_Lee: the Karma front on NPO has some instructions regarding peace moded nations you can take em or leave em:

[9:30pm] Gen_Lee: -NPO has five days to move all their nations out peace mode with zero penalty.

[9:30pm] Moo-Spock: we will never move our banks

[9:30pm] Moo-Spock: never have

[9:30pm] Gen_Lee: -6th Day and on:.For every NPO nation above 5k NS in peace mode, 3 mil and 100 tech in reparations will be added to any peace terms, per day. The duration of all peace terms will also be increased by 2 days for any day any NPO nation above 5k is in peace after the 5th day.

[9:31pm] Gen_Lee: ok

[9:32pm] Gen_Lee: thought i should let you know

[9:32pm] Gen_Lee: talk to ya later

[9:33pm] Moo-Spock: the other nations have rotated out of PM on a regular basis, just like every other alliance

[9:33pm] Moo-Spock: I will post this for our BR to discuss

[9:34pm] Gen_Lee: alright

[9:36pm] Gen_Lee: oh for record sake, clock starts now 5/21 11:38 server time

"When you stare into the abyss the abyss stares back at you." - Friedrich Nietzsche.

"Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it." - George Santayana

I have news for you, Karma. Karma does not represent any sort of "just punishment" you seem to think it is. Karma is merely cause and effect. Karma is not about punishment. In Spirit there is no absolute right or wrong. It is about experience and fulfillment of purpose. The idea that we are punished for sins is a man-made form of social control. A highly advanced soul may choose to incarnate into a crippled body, or as an insect, if that is beneficial to their progress.[1] Anyone knows what cause and effect is. Do one thing, another will happen as a result of it. I can accept that your view is that all the things we have done up to this point has resulted in this. No biggie. But don't even presume to justify your actions as being justice when you are guilty as the same things you accuse us of.

Drop the pretense of doing this out of change, or wanting to liberate the Red Sphere from our maniacal oppression, or justice for all the "sins" we've committed, and just come out and say it - this is vengeance, nothing more, pure and simple.

If we are to go down, we will not go down without a fight. The Order has participated in over twenty major wars in the last three and a half years. Some of us have more experience at managing wars than anyone else in this game. We have been through Hell and back once before, and we will do it again, stronger than we have before. It is in that spirit that the member-states of the New Pacific Order wholeheartedly reject your "instructions to receive terms."

I'll take ZI over obeying these demands, thanks. :war: - Noob5

[19:29:17] <+Trilobyte_Man> My response: They can shove it up their *****.

**** that ****. - Cager

Tell the !@#$%^&* that you'll see them in another 5 weeks, once we've run them to the dust. - Necromancer V4L

To put it nice and blunt. They can shove their instructions up their !@#$@#$ *****. - Ursarkar E. Creed

I'm going to with a "No" as well. - Squintus

A derisive snort, and a certain well known middle finger gesture is my sole response to that. - Waterana

They must be pretty desperate to offer such pathetic terms. Hell no. They can shove those terms where the sun don't shine. - Iceknave

You can tell how much they fear us. They know that whatever happens we will rebuild because of our banks. I think its funny that this the best they can come up with to try to destroy us. o/ Moo! - Navblue

Wtf is this? After reading it over and over... no. - Romanov IV

http://graptor.net/images/fingernuke.jpg - Loucifer

**** them. - President President

BWAHAHAHAHAHA! - ChileRelleno

An interesting attempt. However, they are either morons, or this is a joke. If its a joke then I'm overestimating their intelligence.... ... - Dr. James Henrey

Please courteously inform them that all NPO nations will gladly leave Peacemode immediately only to SHOVE THOSE BLOODY TERMS UP THEIR GODDAMN *****! - Thomas Richmond

Instructions? Let's send them back a handbook with instructions on how to **** off. - Silent

Ummm, no? - Pfauter

They must be !@#$@#$ mad/desperate/a bit of both to send that...I think I'd rather keep on killing them tbh. o/ - Dagnarus

I was thinking the same, except I was leaning toward," Shove them were the sun don't shine". - Maverick_1

Those instructions are full of FAIL. - Dominius

i just say lol - Lord Tyrion

You know I think we have a general consensus emerging already. :P - Imperial Emperor

Tell em bloopbleep38 said **** that ****. - bloopbleep38

so at the moment there are 234 in peace, 96 below 5k. So 138 are above 5k which means 414million and 6900tech per day. I find it interesting that they then put it on themselves to determine when the conflict is over. I think this is completely pointless unless they set a final date.

Otherwise it is a) We are at war with you indefinately and thus you have a "debt" of infinite or B] We destroy you hopes of rebuild. And Finally, C] They can blow it, shove it, stick it (whatever) up their ***. - Mr.AdmiralX

http://boozedout.com/wp-content/upload/1ch...ddle-finger.jpg, http://randazza.files.wordpress.com/2009/0...ddle-finger.jpg, http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/w/...finger_flip.jpg, http://www.dailyhaha.com/_pics/baby_middle_finger.jpg - Tony Gunz

So they want our nations in peace mode to get ZIed? Sounds very reasonable... - Choker

I like Lou's comment. Moo...from my POV you can close already this thread & archive it in the Section "the most Hilarious requests ever received" - Magus Rules

Guys, I think Karma may have realized that at the rate our NS is (barely) dropping, it'll take until August for us to lose a sanction. - Letum

No. - Soly

I'm confused. 5,000 NS is pretty low, I'm well over that and I only have 1000 infrastructure left, especially to generate 3 million a day? What makes them think that they will get a single brass razoo from us to begin with? Why would any sane individual expose their banks to enemy attack, or expect anyone else to either? What exactly would we get in return for committing such stupidity? But having said that, based on the current exchange rate of the AUD I believe I should start sending the money right now, I just need their full bank account details, date of birth, mothers maiden name (assuming they actually know who their mother is and she has a maiden name), and a photocopy of their drivers license, credit card and signature (if applicable). What can I say, I like to know who my money is going to. - ViceOverlord

Oh, that dog just ain't gonna hunt. - tombed

I think we owe them for all the mean stuff we've done to them. So I filled this warehouse and many others with all the stuff they're going to get. http://www.mawsoft.com/images/GDC-2007/lar...7%20(Large).jpg - Ellis

This is no surprise. Also, we have surrender terms? - republic of granat

I think by demanding for everyone to come out of peace mode they have inadvertently said that they don't really want a long war because we won't go down easy. This means the longer we drag it on, the more likely they are to fold. - gmop

Instruct them to get some lubricants, because we are going to personally shove those terms up their collective asses. - Lord of the Port

They certainly overestimate their cohesion, and underestimate our resolve. They keep trying to use the coaLUEtion as their history lesson, but it seems that they still haven't learned to open negotiations from a position of strength. Even with so many thousands of nations on side they struggle to find a competent strategist. Guess that's something else to blame the NPO for, since we took all the good ones. - Vladimir

No No No! The only reason they are even starting to offer terms is they realize we are not going to fold (like they would if the situation was reversed). As time goes on, the tides are turning. They are not as strong as they thought they were. - jgolla

... A.N.D T.H.E H.O.R.S.E Y.O.U R.O.D.E I.N O.N.! - Walt Schmidt

Obviously they fear the mighty rebuilding power of our Bank. In short, LOL $%&@ off Karma****. - Speer

I say yes.. ..to replying with the responses already proffered in this thread. - kernzi

i have to agree like they have the balls to commit an eternal war! longer we drag it out worse they look and lighter terms we get if any! - kenny

They cannot commit or plan for Eternal War as this would be the exact opposite of one of their supposed principle's for this war. But anything is possible I guess as hypocrisy is certainly not foreign to Planet Bob. As far as the terms, not only "No" but HELL !@#$@#$ NO!!!! - Lord Valleo

http://photos.commongate.com/11/38202_9kdgdhucff_m.jpg, http://blogsimages.skynet.be/images/000/17...Screw%20You.jpg, These terms are harshest terms in CN History. I vote we tell this guy F Off and try to beat them at their own game. - ZetaDefender

Nah. - Applesauce59

The stupid terms are laughable. It's hypocricy of the greatest "Order" haha. Our banks should remain in peacemode. :) - Sarai

umm..no. Karma is getting scared I guess, but to be honest I wouldn't be scared if I was on Karma's side, simply for the fact that I would have little understanding of how well NPO is organized and what has happen in the past, younger nations of planet BOB that is, older one should know better.. - Raiden706

FTS = $%&@ that !@#$. - Lord to the Gizzle.

Well, if anyone had any doubts as to what Karma's intent has been all along I sincerely hope this latest farce puts them to rest. We'll see you in hell, Karma. - Dinfandel

They have a better chance of ripping the Nutella jar out of DarkMistress' chubby fat-fingered hands. - Bilrow

I'd tell them to stop !@#$% footing around, sit down as a coalition and decide what they really want from this war and give us real peace terms to reject; Not these singular 'instructions' to be tacked onto anything else they may demand in the future to exploit us. - Typo

no way, no one backs npo into the corner like that. - Crimekiller

I personally wanna see how high we can make that counter go up before THEY ask for terms. - Red

Tell them to go and $%&@ themselves, cheeky !@#$%^&*. - Bandit

I actually laughed out loud at this, it is pretty funny. Also $%&@ them - Millionario

I advise that we refuse this offer and press for better terms. - Prime minister johns

FOOMFCLMFAO!!!!!!!!! Ummm... No. - Grimmfang

I read that as, "Our nations are !@#$%*ing and running out of cash, we need money." $%&@ no. - Charles de Lafayette

Thank you Emperor for sharing. Many lulz had. - Branimir

No. - HooahSoldier

I will never surrender to those !@#$%^&*.. I don't care how hurt my nation gets, this "peace terms" are !@#$%^&* and we all know it. I am a Pacifican in heart, and Pacifica is not the surrendering type of alliance. We fight. We prevail! - MariMassa

lol tell them to go $%&@ themselves thanks. - Makoz

Ha, they want cash and tech for us preserving our future? They can have my nukes instead. - Manwell

I'll let this lady say it:

Tell them to stick those lousy terms, we'd rather have eternal war thanks. - Litha

No. Pacifica never surrenders. - Raithix

But Moo, we're just getting warmed up. I'll send cruise missles and aircraft as my response tonight. Engraved on each attack, will be a picture of my penis, in KARMA's cereal. $%&@ THEM! - President Gnarkill

@Branimir: this. - JonVision

http://www.engineeredpartsinc.com/images/nuts_lock_lg.jpg, https://ssl9.chi.us.securedata.net/theheadn...ixed%20nuts.jpg. - Godking I

I think I speak for all of us when I say: Suck my !@#$@#$ $@. - Azrael

I would rather sit at E-zi than have our peace mode nations come out. - Silentkiller

Dear Karma, Get bent. Love and kisses, DarkMistress.

!@#$%*^, the whole lot of them. no. - amnesiac

Honestly, we are gonna be forced to move the upper tier nations out of PM anyways. Why don't we target this alliance with those said nations until he can rethink his demands. - jimbacher

Actually, the reperation penatly is IN ADDITION to the billions they are going to ask for after they nuke the banks, so exposing the banks means that they can still ask for infinity-billion dollars. - Sir Paul

<%Blueline976[NPO]> Well, all I have to say about those pre-terms is...Yeah, $%&@ that !@#$.

Bollocks. - Kristospherein

Ahhhhahahahahahaahahahaha. That's some funny !@#$ right there. Is that how much they want to pay us for staying in peace mode and not beating their nations down? LOL - JeremyB

I can see why they are insiting on this as I believe we offered as similar condition to GATO (except we went whole hog with EZI rather than increased reps). What they don't seem to understand is that the NPO is not GATO and is willing to keep fighting till we get resonable terms even if we have to bring them eternal war, something which I believe the majority of Karma alliances would not be willing to face. So I say $%&@ these terms and in a few weeks we will see something better as more and more of thier members BWHAAAA over thier lost pixels :P - UncleB

I came out of hibernation... er... my study abroad and went to the internet cafe to check up on you guys. This made my day. Hilarious. I think "Hell no" is the right answer. - svartingr

NO. - Tojamn

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x215/BoredBrawd/Blue1.png, My response. - kevin32891

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/6100/yourcouch.jpg - Mary the Fantabulous

$%&@ no - Polish Sausage

$%&@ them. - Kriegsdrachen

@ThomasRichmond: This ^ ps. $%&@ THEM. Hail The Emperor! Hail my comrades! NPO Rules!!! - Dragon's claw

Emperor, They deserve to eat a few nukes for these disgraceful opening terms. Tell them to come back when they grow some balls. Sincerly, Big Red. Hail! Looks like babies are back on the menu boys! - The Big Red 1

What's the hurry? - Maharaj

No. $%&@'em. I rather be hammered to deletion. Reroll and do it all over again. - askanitherotund

We may have created a medical emergency here. First, Karma must have had their heads up their asses to attack NPO. In addition, we've shoved their war declaration up their asses, their surrender requests and now these instructions up their asses. Comrades, just how much more can they take up their asses?!? Let's continue the fight up put them out of our their misery. - TinyVillages

@Ellis: Why are we giving them handtrucks and some chairs? This seems unreasonable. - Blueon462

Oh no they didn't! I like to think I know a little something about mind$%&@ing. This was simply an attempt to gauge the resolve of our alliance. Of course in any negotiation you start high then work to find a middle ground. I think that they were looking for us to say no to these terms but perhaps continue to negotiate. By continuing to negotiate, we're telling them we are looking to end this war. I say $%&@ that. In turn, the karma "powers that be" will go back to their "war rooms" and start thinking about an exit strategy that is in their best interest. The simple fact that we have held them this long despite our banks and some of our larger nations in peace mode scares the living !@#$ out of them. They know if this drags on they will lose. Let us not forget that these people want us wiped off the map. For that I say no mercy. - jordanhazy

!@#$@#$ pathetic. If it comes to eternal war, well... they will be getting a nuke a day... forrrreeeeeevvvverrrrrrrr - Straylight

$%&@ them. Hell no. :war: I like the attempted hypocrisy though. - f15pilotX

This game just got interesting. It's go time! "I'll rest when I die" - Daimos

Never. - Lord of Darkness

@Cager: This. - Princecaspian

8 pages of "$%&@ no." Tell them the NPO has spoken as one and they can go back to cry in their bunkers while they watch their pixels burn! - Brennan

I fail to see how sending our nations out of peace mode will bring planet bob into peace mode... Also, 'instructions' ? Tell them to drop the passive-agressive BS and talk about real peace like real men.

This Attrition/ Stalemate thing we have going on is not the time/ place to demand huge reps, eternal ZIs, bans etc, etc. - CrazyEddie

Tell them, "Those are the terms we are offering you!" We got your back Moo o/ - Klonopin

Can Karma even keep up sustained hostilities for another five weeks? No Surrender, $%&@ them in their necks. :war: - Neko_antoniou

lol.. dumb***** - Conrad

@President Gnarkill: ^^^^ this EPIC - Oppe

Unacceptable. Hold the line, comrades! - Anhur

$%&@ 'em. - Lord of Destruction

Till the last drop of infra blood. BTW HELL NO to those terms. Also the fear and desperation could be sense in those terms. - Zeon Gryhawk

$%&@ them and their instructions. - Gandroff

:ph34r: I see we are all of one mind. No. Just no. - TrotskysRevenge

@TrotskysRevenge: So it is said. So it shall be written! - Mudbug

Been gone for a few days and almost missed this thread... Is it to late to add my "$%&@ no" to the bunch(I know Moo has spoken and all) - Frodark

Time to give KARMA our instructions. Something I know they can do....stepping on a landmine.....jumping off a bridge...etc. - Roman

Oh $%&@ no. I'd rather sit at ZI. In the meantime, I sure am having fun doing more damage to them than they're doing to me :awesome: - Jesse End

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Eretz Yisrael
These terms are amazing and exactly what Pacifica deserves for all it has done.

It's also good to see that the Non Government Pacifican members still have the intelligence of a rock from their responses.

I bet in one or two years you'll be crying "FREE PACIFICA" just like the rest of your fickle brothers in delusion.

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Eretz Yisrael
The fact that NPO remains so obssesed with protecting their bank nations demonstrates well how their knowledge of CN strategy is still firmly rooted in the reality of 2007. Just as they bragged about the massive economic growth caused by the total ignorance of warchests now they brag about the might of an obsolete institution.

Enlighten us - how are we to rebuild if everyone's infra has been demolished? It goes a lot faster with bank nations.

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Eretz Yisrael
You've nothing to convince anyone that Karma is supposedly evil. Thank you for wasting everyone's time.

You chose to read this, I didn't force you. You've only got yourself to blame for wasting your own time in reading this and then commenting on it. :rolleyes:

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Eretz Yisrael
The longer they go hippie the smaller their warchests get. I am fine with it.

The longer you fight us, the smaller your will becomes. I look forward to your surrender.

Please give me whatever you are smoking.

Also

Goodbye

When was the last time you fought a long war?

Let me see.... oh yeah, never.

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Eretz Yisrael
"Your comment will not show up until the Blog owner has approved it"

This wouldn't be the reason NPO is posting in blogs instead of the big boards, eh?

Actually it's because I needed to go to bed due to being sick. :(

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Eretz Yisrael
Goodluck positioning yourself in a stupid position.

You could've had peace in 2/3 weeks. Now it will take a lot longer.

Will it? Those instructions did not say anything about when real terms would be offered - remember those are just instructions to receiving terms.

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Eretz Yisrael
I don't think I can see a CN with NPO in peace mode...

FAN-esque stamina and resourcefulness NPO does not have...

It is for this that I think NPO should just bite the bullet and release peace mode nations...yeah it will hurt but I doubt NPO has what it takes to keep up an indefinate war...

Just my opinion ofcourse. :)

I doubt the karma alliances have what it takes to keep fighting us for years.

Not to mention it flies in the face everything they've said when they wanted peace to be given to FAN. :rolleyes:

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Letum
You still think you're going to win?

LOL

And if you expect to be able to hide a large part of your strength in peace mode and receive peace, then that is not going to happen. A war is fought to defeat an enemy, not to let him come back straight away because he didn't fight. Most of your nations now in the top 100 have not cycled, they have stayed in peace mode for the duration, and that is cowardly and hypocritical – and leaving them there and giving you peace is stupid.

If I extend your logic, then that means that if we leave our banks at peace mode and do end up getting peace, we have not been "defeated"?

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Eretz Yisrael
It's amazing the Karma leaders and footsoldiers can even find the confidence to fight this war with such little understanding of military strategy. Peace mode is a viable tactic, it's not cowardice, but trying to paint it like it is makes you look even more silly than you already look.

You are aware that your leaders told everyone time and time again that peace mode is cowardice when they engaged alliances that used that tactic, right?

You are aware that when they used it, everyone tried to hide in peace mode, right?

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Eretz Yisrael
Hail Gen Lee and his glorious vision!

Not even the vaunted hippy shield will save the cowards now.

The difference between us and them is that proportionally, we have far more nations fighting than they ever did.

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EatDirtFartDust
The longer they go hippie the smaller their warchests get. I am fine with it.

The longer you fight us, the smaller your will becomes. I look forward to your surrender.

Oh my god, you're adorable.

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Eretz Yisrael
B for effort, D for content.

People's memories aren't that short. If you continue to elect to decline peace conditions it will be a long time before the victim card picks up much traction.

The way the community reacts anytime there is a protracted war, it won't take too long for cries of "FREE PACIFICA" to deafen your ears.

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Eretz Yisrael
You still think you're going to win?

LOL

And if you expect to be able to hide a large part of your strength in peace mode and receive peace, then that is not going to happen. A war is fought to defeat an enemy, not to let him come back straight away because he didn't fight. Most of your nations now in the top 100 have not cycled, they have stayed in peace mode for the duration, and that is cowardly and hypocritical – and leaving them there and giving you peace is stupid.

The top 100 is not the entire alliance. What about the other 700 nations? Are they irrelevant?

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Eretz Yisrael
All I can say is duh. Duh Karma doesn't actually believe in all that justice stuff, it is revenge, plain and simple. However, you're forgetting that this is CN, and in CN everything must have a legitimate face. The NPO must know this, they have gone through painstaking lengths to try and find a valid CB rather than just saying "we're bored and we don't like you and we need some more free tech, so we're attacking you." Instead they always go on about how they are doing the honorable thing, that they are just and mighty. This is the truth of it, and you are finally getting a taste of your own medicine, and it makes me laugh that you don't even realize it.

As for you still saying you're going to actually win this fight, that just shows ignorance, and such a swollen ego that you can't see past it to reality. I know most of you don't have this mindset, but you certainly have members that are convinced you are winning. For this amazing feat I commend you. You have amazing propaganda machines. You also keep telling yourselves Karma is scared. Scared of having enough people that they only have to attack once every few months and still keep most of NPO in war. And all the while, carry on as if they aren't even at war since you obviously can't attack anymore. That's a really scary prospect. I just can't bear to see my beautiful pixels take that kind of a hit.

Also, you fail to see how karma is karma. What goes around, comes around. This includes all the !@#$%*ing about peace mode, I didn't see you calling it a viable tactic when you had the upper hand. In reality, it is a viable tactic, but once again, you're forgetting that this is CN. In CN that doesn't matter. Morale and the mindset to keep yourself believing that you're doing the right thing, and that your enemies are all chickens is even more important than almost anything else. NPO should know this well. They have consistently shelled out propaganda about "protecting CN from the hippie menace" and other anti-peace mode propaganda.

At least someone in the karma coalition has the guts to admit their real intentions.

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Vladimir
And if you expect to be able to hide a large part of your strength in peace mode and receive peace, then that is not going to happen. A war is fought to defeat an enemy, not to let him come back straight away because he didn't fight. Most of your nations now in the top 100 have not cycled, they have stayed in peace mode for the duration, and that is cowardly and hypocritical – and leaving them there and giving you peace is stupid.

This is the sort of logic I love to see from Karma. Finally it casts aside the flimsy morality tales and brings us back to reality: straight power politics. The logical implication is, of course, that since we will not be accepting such an idea, you intend to keep an entire alliance (or 800+ members no less) at EZI.

The king is dead. Long live the king!

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bzelger
And if you expect to be able to hide a large part of your strength in peace mode and receive peace, then that is not going to happen. A war is fought to defeat an enemy, not to let him come back straight away because he didn't fight. Most of your nations now in the top 100 have not cycled, they have stayed in peace mode for the duration, and that is cowardly and hypocritical – and leaving them there and giving you peace is stupid.

This is the sort of logic I love to see from Karma. Finally it casts aside the flimsy morality tales and brings us back to reality: straight power politics. The logical implication is, of course, that since we will not be accepting such an idea, you intend to keep an entire alliance (or 800+ members no less) at EZI.

The king is dead. Long live the king!

Ha ha. Firstly, calling it EZI is either a gross misrepresentation or gross misunderstanding of the concept (anyone is welcome to take individual terms at any time :) ). Secondly, it's you who's keeping those members down by not coming to terms. Your opposition is willing to give you peace in a reasonable time frame under reasonable terms. You never have and never will be able to make a credible comparison between what you have done and what you have brought upon yourselves.

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Azaghul
And if you expect to be able to hide a large part of your strength in peace mode and receive peace, then that is not going to happen. A war is fought to defeat an enemy, not to let him come back straight away because he didn't fight. Most of your nations now in the top 100 have not cycled, they have stayed in peace mode for the duration, and that is cowardly and hypocritical – and leaving them there and giving you peace is stupid.

This is the sort of logic I love to see from Karma. Finally it casts aside the flimsy morality tales and brings us back to reality: straight power politics. The logical implication is, of course, that since we will not be accepting such an idea, you intend to keep an entire alliance (or 800+ members no less) at EZI.

The king is dead. Long live the king!

You don't understand what EZI is do you? And we have no intent to keep anyone indefinitely ZI'd, we want y'all t come out of peace mode so we can finish this up.

Also this is not mutually contradictory with our professed ideas at all. Practicality is not inherently exclusive with idealism.

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Azaghul
Your terms were absolutely absurd, ours are not.

Your terms are not absurd? Threatening to add numbers to an as of yet undecided number that you can pull out of thin air at a later date, if we don't jump off a cliff? These are historically unprecedented in their absurdity. So absurd that there isn't even a hint that there would be a gain for us if we complied.

More absurd than PERMA-ZI if they don't "jump off a cliff"?

Also you don't know that numbers haven't been decided on.

These terms, along with the rapidly changing language of Karma (as it sways back and ever more forth from 'moral' justification to power-political justification), demonstrates well the real reasoning behind this war -- the removal of a political competitor for the Karma elite.

Actually the motivation was protecting our our friends and allies from an aggressive move by NPO to remove us piecemeal. We didn't start this war, you did.

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Azaghul
The fact that NPO remains so obssesed with protecting their bank nations demonstrates well how their knowledge of CN strategy is still firmly rooted in the reality of 2007. Just as they bragged about the massive economic growth caused by the total ignorance of warchests now they brag about the might of an obsolete institution.

Enlighten us - how are we to rebuild if everyone's infra has been demolished? It goes a lot faster with bank nations.

Warchests and a large number of economic improvements and wonders.

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bzelger
B for effort, D for content.

People's memories aren't that short. If you continue to elect to decline peace conditions it will be a long time before the victim card picks up much traction.

The way the community reacts anytime there is a protracted war, it won't take too long for cries of "FREE PACIFICA" to deafen your ears.

Eventually I imagine that will occur, yes. It happened for FAN after a mere what, 2 years? When they were the defending party?

It's possible to hold out long enough to get sympathy, I agree. You would be far better off though, to earn your peace and start work on rebuilding.

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Azaghul
It's amazing the Karma leaders and footsoldiers can even find the confidence to fight this war with such little understanding of military strategy. Peace mode is a viable tactic, it's not cowardice, but trying to paint it like it is makes you look even more silly than you already look.

Didn't stop you from threatening perma-ZI to GATO nations who used it, right?

It is cowardice when you have "bank nations" who stay in peace mode the entire war and lots of nations going into it with few coming out. Cycling in and out and one thing and a legitimate tactical strategy, staying there indefinitely is not.

First there is a way of "acting honourable". Now we have to fight according to your standards as well. Would you like my password as well?

The point is we want those nations to fight at all. Indefinite peace mode isn't a strategy for fighting.

You defended it when FAN did it. Now maybe some of you are seeing why I warned you that you were heading for eternal war. You're making the exact same mistake that NPO made with FAN.

I bet all of the alliances that agreed to terms that prohibit them from declaring war for the duration of the Karma War are feeling a bit nervous about their ability to defend their allies right around now.

FAN had no reason to expect peace.

That's arguable, but the clear similarity here is: FAN didn't expect peace. NPO doesn't either. You guys just demanded an extra 25K tech per day they're in the war.... !

No, we are saying that's what'll be added to the terms IF they don't have their nations leave peace mode. They do have a choice in the matter.

If NPO doesn't expect peace than that's just dumb. Don't mistake the posturing in this blog as representing their actual position.

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Vladimir
Ha ha. Firstly, calling it EZI is either a gross misrepresentation or gross misunderstanding of the concept (anyone is welcome to take individual terms at any time :) ). Secondly, it's you who's keeping those members down by not coming to terms. Your opposition is willing to give you peace in a reasonable time frame under reasonable terms. You never have and never will be able to make a credible comparison between what you have done and what you have brought upon yourselves.

Are they? I have yet to see any terms. All I have seen is completely ludicrous 'pre-terms' that no one in their right mind would accept, along with much talk of destroying the Order so that they can never rise again and, in this very blog entry, talk of perpetual war and ZI. Doesn't fill me with confidence in your good faith. Offer terms and then you can blame us for forcing you (the poor dears) to continue this war. Otherwise you are taking (or at least trying to take) the position that the alliance must choose between EZI and disbandment.

You don't understand what EZI is do you? And we have no intent to keep anyone indefinitely ZI'd, we want y'all t come out of peace mode so we can finish this up.

And I want a pony. Not going to happen. 'I want a pony or I'm going to poke you in the eye'. Why do you make me do it?

Actually, by your logic I'm not sure anyone has ever had anyone on EZI (at least the NPO hasn't). EZI has been reserved for those who consistently make themselves a threat, and as soon as one stops being that threat they are let go. This is exactly what you are saying, except you (or rather, some of you) are dressing it up in the flowery legal language of war.

Interestingly, there was a blog entry written by someone just the other day predicting that EZI would be back with a vengeance accompanied by e-lawyering aplenty.

More absurd than PERMA-ZI if they don't "jump off a cliff"?

This is what you are threatening by saying that there will never be peace so long as we have nations in peace mode. But no, for sheer absurdity, the demand being made takes the biscuit.

And if this had anything to do with OV the war would have been over before it began -- in the initial peace talks. You wanted war because you wanted to destroy the Order. OV is only ever mentioned when you're called on this, otherwise they're a non-factor evebn in your own propaganda.

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Bob Janova
The logical implication is, of course, that since we will not be accepting such an idea, you intend to keep an entire alliance (or 800+ members no less) at EZI.

Uh, no. Any member of the NPO can stop being attacked at any time by taking advantage of the individual surrender terms, so it's not even PZI. Either you are an idiot (which I don't believe) or intentionally misusing the term EZI.

Morality does not mean letting a known threat get away with an aggressive action when you are in a position to teach it a lesson. There is nothing immoral about fighting, and winning, a defensive war, and ensuring that your enemy is beaten before ending it.

Edit:

The top 100 is not the entire alliance. What about the other 700 nations? Are they irrelevant?

To me they are, your no. 101 is under 20k NS. But you can apply the same argument below there too if you are hiding more nations in peace mode.

If we don't come out and get terms, have we not been defeated?

Not as fully as you should have been. But I can see the GW1 style revision happening already. You have lost over half your strength, even if the alliances fighting you had a horrible lapse of judgement and gave you no strings attached peace right now, you have clearly lost.

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Azaghul
Are they? I have yet to see any terms. All I have seen is completely ludicrous 'pre-terms' that no one in their right mind would accept, along with much talk of destroying the Order so that they can never rise again and, in this very blog entry, talk of perpetual war and ZI. Doesn't fill me with confidence in your good faith. Offer terms and then you can blame us for forcing you (the poor dears) to continue this war. Otherwise you are taking (or at least trying to take) the position that the alliance must choose between EZI and disbandment.

Terms will be offered once you have completely fought. We aren't gonna give them to you know just to prove that we intend on giving them at some point, that's just stupid. Did you do that when you were at war with people before you were ready to actually make peace? Of course not.

This is what you are threatening by saying that there will never be peace so long as we have nations in peace mode. But no, for sheer absurdity, the demand being made takes the biscuit.

It's not absurd, you come out, you'll get after a while, then you can start rebuilding and paying off the reps. You just want to throw a tantrum rather than come out, which is just gonna dig your hole deeper.

And if this had anything to do with OV the war would have been over before it began -- in the initial peace talks. You wanted war because you wanted to destroy the Order. OV is only ever mentioned when you're called on this, otherwise they're a non-factor evebn in your own propaganda.

If you hadn't declared war during those talks it might have been over. What did you expect most in Karma to do, see their allies who were obligated to come in and defend OV dismantled? The victimhood approach is silly when YOU started the war.

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