A Statement from Doomhouse

[Biff Webster]

[quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1300951091' post='2674494']
More like after CoJ's attempt to roll GOONS fails, they pretend it didn't happen and then then hit GOONS without any real treaty obligation to do so.
[/quote]

Oh it's real enough.

[Monster]

No, it was literally an oA off the Digital Justice treaty which is a treaty with another alliance that tried to roll GOONS. If you weren't expecting consequences for it, it's too funny.

[Beefspari]

[quote name='Biff Webster' timestamp='1300951471' post='2674496']
Oh it's real enough.
[/quote]
"Your CB is nonexistent."
"No, [i][b]your[/b][/i] CB is nonexistent."
"No, I have a CB. You're the one who doesn't have one."
"You fool, we had a CB. You just didn't like it."
"No. We have a CB. You don't."
"You're the one with no CB! Our CB is solid!"
"What CB?"
"I should be saying the same thing to you!"
"No you shouldn't, because we have a CB!"
"We're the one with a CB! Maybe you should get one!"
"I already got one! I bet you'd like it if you tried it out!"
"Already did! It's an awesome CB!"
"Where is it? Is it [i][b]invisible[/b][/i]?"
"No, it's right here! Next to the CB you don't have!"

Yeah.

By the way, we had a CB. But within 10 posts someone will mention how we didn't.

[Biff Webster]

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1300951930' post='2674500']
"Your CB is nonexistent."
"No, [i][b]your[/b][/i] CB is nonexistent."
"No, I have a CB. You're the one who doesn't have one."
"You fool, we had a CB. You just didn't like it."
"No. We have a CB. You don't."
"You're the one with no CB! Our CB is solid!"
"What CB?"
"I should be saying the same thing to you!"
"No you shouldn't, because we have a CB!"
"We're the one with a CB! Maybe you should get one!"
"I already got one! I bet you'd like it if you tried it out!"
"Already did! It's an awesome CB!"
"Where is it? Is it [i][b]invisible[/b][/i]?"
"No, it's right here! Next to the CB you don't have!"

Yeah.

By the way, we had a CB. But within 10 posts someone will mention how we didn't.
[/quote]

Did you mean to quote someone else? 64D went in, we followed.

[Iceknave]

[quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1300951685' post='2674498']
No, it was literally an oA off the Digital Justice treaty which is a treaty with another alliance that tried to roll GOONS. If you weren't expecting consequences for it, it's too funny.
[/quote]
Uh, it's a a chaining of multiple defensive treaties...

Starting Point:
Jan 24 DH + FAN declares war on NPO --> triggers activation of Red Fire Pact (TPF, MADP, defense clause activated)
Jan 26 TPF declares war on GOONS --> triggers activation of OPP (TPF's MDP bloc, defense clause activated)
Jan 26 64 Digits declares war on GOONS --> triggers activation of Digital Justice (ODAP, optional defense clause activated)
Jan 29 CoJ declares war on GOONS

Not sure how you're getting that it's an oA.

All of this is in the wiki.

[Monster]

That's not how treaties work.

For example, in BiPolar, we attacked Nueva Vida, activating their TFD treaty. They then had NATO oA onto us along with NADC. TPF attacking GOONS triggers no defensive clauses except for GOONS'. To be honest, if treaties worked the way you described, this war would have been a lot easier to run for us, especially in the Polar theater.

Edited March 24, 2011 by Antoine Roquentin

[Iceknave]

[quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1300952754' post='2674508']
That's not how treaties work.

For example, in BiPolar, we attacked Nueva Vida, activating their TFD treaty. They then had NATO oA onto us along with NADC. TPF attacking GOONS triggers no defensive clauses except for GOONS'.
[/quote]
You're missing the first step.

The first step is DH + FAN (attacker) attacking NPO (defender). That opens up the chain of defensive clauses, starting with TPF. That's the critical point.

If you ignore the whole DH + FAN attacking NPO as the trigger, then yeah, the entire chain collapses as then there's no entry point for TPF. Without that entry point for TPF, that doesn't trigger the entry of 64 digits. Without that trigger point, CoJ doesn't have an entry point as well.

[Monster]

TPF attacking GOONS triggers none of TPF's defensive clauses. After TPF enters, anyone defending them is chaining in optionally, and anyone who declares along side of them that isn't allied to NPO is using oA.

Edited March 24, 2011 by Antoine Roquentin

[Biff Webster]

[quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1300951685' post='2674498']
No, it was literally an oA off the Digital Justice treaty which is a treaty with another alliance that tried to roll GOONS. If you weren't expecting consequences for it, it's too funny.
[/quote]

Fine, so they don't like how we entered. I was talking about how they hate us for "lampooning them" on the forums.

[Vol Navy]

We are defending against GOONs, MK, Umbrella, LOST, and Athens currently. All are defensive fronts.

Edited March 24, 2011 by Vol Navy

[Monster]

[quote name='Vol Navy' timestamp='1300953805' post='2674513']
We are defending against GOONs, MK, Umbrella, LOST, and Athens currently. All are defensive fronts.
[/quote]

Not at all, you made the choice to declare solely on GOONS. The rest except Athens are GOONS treaty partners.

[Feldheim C]

Oh good, I see the posts of attrition are back. Keep it classy HC. You'll make us give up with your walls of words yet.

As for me I'll keep it short and to the point. I still want to see the HC come out and play.

P.S. Stop trying to justify who activated what to jump on us, you're winning no one over and it's getting tedious at this time. (and I do expect to get a ration of **** for this, so bring it)

[HeroofTime55]

[quote name='Iceknave' timestamp='1300952506' post='2674505']
Uh, it's a a chaining of multiple defensive treaties...

Starting Point:
Jan 24 DH + FAN declares war on NPO --> triggers activation of Red Fire Pact (TPF, MADP, defense clause activated)
Jan 26 TPF declares war on GOONS --> triggers activation of OPP (TPF's MDP bloc, defense clause activated)
Jan 26 64 Digits declares war on GOONS --> triggers activation of Digital Justice (ODAP, optional defense clause activated)
Jan 29 CoJ declares war on GOONS

Not sure how you're getting that it's an oA.

All of this is in the wiki.
[/quote]
Digital Justice does not provide oA or oD clauses, because such things are silly. It provides for joint operations, and establishes such joint operations as a valid [i]casus belli[/i] for entry into armed conflict.

The word "optional" does not appear anywhere in our treaty with the Cult.

Beyond that, you are correct.

Edited March 24, 2011 by HeroofTime55

[Vol Navy]

[quote name='Biff Webster' timestamp='1300953794' post='2674512']
Fine, so they don't like how we entered. I was talking about how they hate us for "lampooning them" on the forums.
[/quote]


They are in maximum hypocrite mode. They enter wars constantly with ghost DoW's that chain to oA or in the case of Sparta on NV, just because Umbrella told them thats where they had to go, treaty be damned.

When they do it it's coalition warfare. When someone from this side enters even via treaty it's "AAAAHHHHH YOU MUST PAY REPS AND DIE!!!"

[Vol Navy]

[quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1300953973' post='2674515']
Not at all, you made the choice to declare solely on GOONS. The rest except Athens are GOONS treaty partners.
[/quote]


GOONs declared aggressive war vs our MADP partner. Attacking NPO = attacking TPF.

Trying to spin any of this in a way that suggests DH isn't the aggressor in this conflict is possibly to much of a stretch even for you guys.

[Monster]

That's not exactly it. CoJ and 64digits had history with GOONS. Simple as that. To expect them to get out without reps is ludicrous especially when they didn't have to declare on them. At least we don't pretend an oA is an MD.

Declaring war on NPO isn't declaring war on TPF.

Edited March 24, 2011 by Antoine Roquentin

[Feldheim C]

[quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1300954191' post='2674522']
That's not exactly it. CoJ and 64digits had history with GOONS. Simple as that. To expect them to get out without reps is ludicrous especially when they didn't have to declare on them. At least we don't pretend an oA is an MD.

Declaring war on NPO isn't declaring war on TPF.
[/quote]

Now to be fair, my alliance's government has offered ways for CoJ to get out of this war completely reps free.

Edited March 24, 2011 by Feldheim C

[HeroofTime55]

[quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1300954191' post='2674522']
That's not exactly it. CoJ and 64digits had history with GOONS. Simple as that. To expect them to get out without reps is ludicrous especially when they didn't have to declare on them. At least we don't pretend an oA is an MD.

Declaring war on NPO isn't declaring war on TPF.
[/quote]
As I noted above, you are incorrect. Learn to read treaties.

Our 'history' is irrelevant. Need I remind you that NoR also participated in that coalition?

But the coalition fell through, and we all went our separate ways. While I don't presume to speak on behalf of the Cult, 64Digits certainly hasn't been obsessing about GOONS nearly to the degree which you people like to pretend. I'd appreciate it if you would kindly stop spreading around such filthy lies.

[Vol Navy]

[quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1300954191' post='2674522']
That's not exactly it. CoJ and 64digits had history with GOONS. Simple as that. To expect them to get out without reps is ludicrous especially when they didn't have to declare on them. At least we don't pretend an oA is an MD.

Declaring war on NPO isn't declaring war on TPF.
[/quote]


You aggressively attacked our chaining MADP partner. By doing so you aggressively attacked TPF.

As for 64 Digits, they are required by the OPP to defend TPF should TPF ask. It's a mandatory defense clause.

You guys started this war 100%. You are the aggressors in every way, shape and form. You can spin. You can baw about poor wittle GOONs needing their reps. But that will never change the facts that you guys started the fight.

[Monster]

NoR had no one with decision-making capacity, while the leaders of CoJ and 64 digits and TPF all had their main guy on. In the case of WCE, it was you, Schattenmann, and TCK fully involved. Haha, I almost forgot the last one until now, but it's great.

[quote name='Vol Navy' timestamp='1300954599' post='2674532']
You aggressively attacked our chaining MADP partner. By doing so you aggressively attacked TPF.

As for 64 Digits, they are required by the OPP to defend TPF should TPF ask. It's a mandatory defense clause.

You guys started this war 100%. You are the aggressors in every way, shape and form. You can spin. You can baw about poor wittle GOONs needing their reps. But that will never change the facts that you guys started the fight.
[/quote]


No, if attacking NPO was attacking TPF, you would have included Umbrella, MK, and FAN in your declaration. You didn't declare on us until like a week later. Deal with it.

Edited March 24, 2011 by Antoine Roquentin

[Vol Navy]

[quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1300954645' post='2674533']
NoR had no one with decision-making capacity, while the leaders of CoJ and 64 digits and TPF all had their main guy on. In the case of WCE, it was you, Schattenmann, and TCK fully involved. Haha, I almost forgot the last one until now, but it's great.




No, if attacking NPO was attacking TPF, you would have included Umbrella, MK, and FAN in your declaration. You didn't declare on us until like a week later. Deal with it.
[/quote]

We declared war on you?

I would love to see that.

[Monster]

[quote name='Vol Navy' timestamp='1300954923' post='2674534']
We declared war on you?

I would love to see that.
[/quote]

You'll spin it as a RoH, but it doesn't matter since even your DoW on GOONS was superfluous as attacking NPO is attacking TPF automatically. Still waiting for the decs on FAN nations, tough guy.

[HeroofTime55]

[quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1300954645' post='2674533']
No, if attacking NPO was attacking TPF, you would have included Umbrella, MK, and FAN in your declaration. You didn't declare on us until like a week later. Deal with it.
[/quote]
TPF never declared on you, what the hell are you smoking Roq?

If you're going to try and lawyer yourself out of such a tight hole, it would be best to not tell blatant lies.

[Feldheim C]

[quote name='Vol Navy' timestamp='1300954923' post='2674534']
We declared war on you?

I would love to see that.
[/quote]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1300955386' post='2674536']
TPF never declared on you, what the hell are you smoking Roq?

If you're going to try and lawyer yourself out of such a tight hole, it would be best to not tell blatant lies.
[/quote]

I dislike sounding too cynical but... Tah-dah!

Edited March 24, 2011 by Feldheim C

[Monster]

It's a matter of perspective. TPF used the "RoH" or DoW from our perspective to activate defense treaties. We interpreted it to activate our defense treaties. It's pretty great actually.

Edited March 24, 2011 by Antoine Roquentin