The GM's Court

[Lynneth]

[quote name='Zoot Zoot' timestamp='1297248179' post='2626865']
As it happens it's only one particular case, Ireland.
All my ally's have soldiers based in Britain, and I trade with most of cnrp apart from yawoo\ Pravus\ sargun.
[/quote]
You blocked comms with Ireland only.
So they get the information from neighbours and other nations that can access yours. It's that easy.

[king of cochin]

[quote name='Tidy Bowl Man' timestamp='1297244135' post='2626838']
1)Broadcasting illegally happens alll the time. It isn't that hard. You just have to keep it short and stay on the move. Most modern security services tend to overlook it as it is considered outmoded. It took the US government how long to track down the Cuban spies in Florida who were regularly transmitting?

Quite the time.


2) So what you are really saying is a totalitarian regieme has cut all ties to the outside world making it virtually impossible for international commerce to be conducted.

Right.. glad to see people rping the economic consequences.

3) Again, commerce must go on for modern nations to survive. The Soviet Union allowed travelers in and sent their own people out to conduct business all the time.

So really, such a blatant ban on travel would only bring about dire economic consequences of a sort that would probably prove fatal to a nation over the long run.

I'm hoping those are being role played out as well.
[/quote]

1. With modern rectenna systems, with an active network of listening stations like I have RPd for my National Reconnaissance Agency, it is child's play to locate and triangulate any SW broadcast and with the kind of police system I have RPd, if you know there is a crime, the capture of culprits is also very easy. RP gives one resources which may not be used by RL nations.

2. Mate, this kinda thing happens during Emergency periods! I have RPd the capabilities of total lockdown. Every nation in the world has the capability for total communication shutdown. It is usually an Emergency Protocol. In periods of national emergency, commerce takes a back seat.

3. Economic consequences would be there for sure. However did not USA enforce such a total transportation shutdown after 9/11 ? Sure it was only for a while, but that is how things are during emergencies. In such times, total communications blackout is possible and is a viable choice.

[Yawoo]

Requesting two spy rolls on Chancellor Patrick (Alaska)

One for grabbing documents showing commercial ships and their respective identification numbers

and

One for grabbing documents showing Alaskan radio frequencies and identification names of their commercial ships



[IMG]http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b368/TheRenegade_Forever/Alaska-1.png[/IMG]

[Centurius]

1-90 is Win
91-100 is Loss
[img]http://i54.tinypic.com/2l93zvq.png[/img]

85 and 40 so both rolls win

[AironthFlamewing]

Can I have two rolls on JED please. pursuant to this thread: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=98333

One roll to intercept the message undetected
The second to replace SMH's true message with one saying for JED to end the blockade.

[img]http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr346/graniteknight/Spy.png[/img]

OOC: Worth a shot

[Michael McBride]

[quote name='graniteknight' timestamp='1297287986' post='2627239']
Can I have two rolls on JED please. pursuant to this thread: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=98333

One roll to intercept the message undetected
The second to replace SMH's true message with one saying for JED to end the blockade.

[img]http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr346/graniteknight/Spy.png[/img]

OOC: Worth a shot
[/quote]

I'm sorry, but how are you intercepting the message exactly? My ships would have sent that directly to JED's ships. We're talking miles at most, not a whole continent. Further, you've never RP'd any ships out near the blockade, so again, how exactly would you block an electronic message and replace it with your own? How would you know our protocols, our codes, anything like that?

[AironthFlamewing]

Thanks for posting this SMH- I was going to cancel my request anyway... was not really worth it.

[Centurius]

Irc requested rolls by Sargun

1-90: Win
91-100: Loss
[img]http://i51.tinypic.com/3496wjm.png[/img]

2 wins

Sargun please post the screenshot with your odds to make it official.

[Sargun II]

[img]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/Sargun_Peaceheart/lolzoot.png[/img]

[Zoot Zoot]

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=98467&pid=2627984&st=0&#entry2627984

I think sargun has done too much for two spy rolls.
One for hacking, and one to crack one particular file, but he has taken four files.

Now due to the nature of the files, each one would be protected. Just common sense. Americas darkest secrets couldn't be hacked that easily, would be encryption after encryption, which is what the inquisitor related files would be. Space agency one I'm not so fussed about.

Its my belief that the other three files would need further spy rolls. One per file.
Thoughts?

[Sargun II]

In particular I'm stressing that he didn't specify there were different kinds of encryption or security on different files. In fact, they were all labelled the same level of security. While I don't think we need to have a rule or ruling saying that we have to be super detailed in our defenses, I was going under the impression that someone who didn't put more RP into the security of their nation would simply have less specific protection than someone who put more detail into it; much like how I spent several sentences doing a part on my side to make sure it was specified how my operation was "untraceable", I feel that someone should only be able to contend specifics of their own anti-spy defenses if they already have something written down. I would have absolutely no problem with Zoot's objection if he had said "with varying levels of security" or a statement similar in his RP, nor if he had a single line about the security of these files in there other than "classified".

In essence, my argument is this:

Zoot didn't specify or put any meaningful RP (meaning anything more than "classified" or secret) into security or anti-spy measures. He had nothing at the time of the spy op detailing that there were different specific levels of security for different things. To help my point, I based my assumption of one roll for the information because he had the [b]same label[/b] of "classified" on his [url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=96964&st=0&p=2571885&fromsearch=1&#entry2571885]Administratum[/url] and [url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=95453]Space Agency[/url] threads. There is nothing to indicate a difference between the levels of security of the two examples, but Zoot says I don't need a spy roll for one but I do for the other. I believe that because it is only [b]after[/b] the roll that he specifies differing levels of security, then his objections have no merit because I did not have this information beforehand and thus would have been unable to go for a second round of rolls, and thus would have had to have changed the RP accordingly.

[Zoot Zoot]

Sargun you misunderstand buddy.
Both your rolls won, one to hack in, and your spare winning roll, I assumed was for the files.
Which is why I believe the other three files need more rolls.
This is why I think common sense ruling would come into play for this due to the nature of the files in question and their content. Naturally they would be in heavily encrypted files.
For instance, theres only one written document in the Inquisitor thread.
http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=95156&view=findpost&p=2527953

Its a report directly to the Grand Inquisitor, it should be assumed to be hand written, a style I was hoping to get across when writing that paticular post as the need NOT to have a hard copy of that report is evident. The only other mention of such evidence is in the first section when it says:

[quote]"A report had been filed from the Imperial Garrison on the Isle of Scilly, a damning report to say the least. James was sat in his office looking across the city as he read it, repeating lines to himself in mock horror and pulling dramatic faces the further he read down the the page. The Guardsman who delivered the message stood at ease in front of him, arms behind his back, sword at his side began to tilt his head at the Grand Inquisitor."[/quote]

Again, its obviously hand written with no hard evidence. That and the mission was given by mouth, not by digital message, so theres no record of it.

Secondly, all you needed to do was shoot me a PM and I would of told you what you needed to know.

Files that are guaranteed to be accessed in my opinion (after more rolls depending on what the choice is.)
Administratum,
BSA,
Foriegn Affairs.

The Inquisitor is a big no, as no hard evidience can be gathred due to the entire thing being done on paper/vocal and not on a computer.

[Sargun II]

You misunderstand too. My spare winning roll was to crack security rather than to gather the information. Once I got in, I could easily have downloaded the files in the first place without even needing a spy roll. It's the ability to open it that's the problem rather than accessing it. Look at the WikiLeaks "insurance file": the government has their hands on it, but it's encrypted so they can't do anything about it. I could have gathered information on your farming numbers if I felt like it with the same ease, but again, it's what comes after [b]getting[/b] the file that matters.

In your thread "The Inquisitor", there is no mention of the word [b]paper[/b] or [b]wrote[/b] or [b]hand-written[/b] or [b]digital[/b] or [b]computer[/b] or [b]mail[/b] or [b]classified[/b] or [b]secret[/b]. In fact, there's no specification whatsoever as to how your reports were created or filed, so you have absolutely no evidence of your "obviously hand-written" claim. Further, you say that "all artefacts of this heresy are to be [b]catalogued, photographed, and put into storage[/b]" in regards to a massacre of heretics in the RP, meaning there is a record of that.

You then put a [b]Report to the Grand Inquisitor[/b] with [i]absolutely no[/i] indication of whether it's hand-written or not. Claiming it is hand-written NOW, only AFTER I've done a spy op is illegitimate, unfair, and metagaming. Really, I would say it is common sense for it not to be hand-written, because otherwise it would have taken days or weeks for the report to be given, which is incredibly inefficient. Given that you used [b]satellite reconnoitre[/b], which would have required a digital transmission and messages to be sent quickly, it is also common sense for things related to it not to be hand-written as well.

[Zoot Zoot]

Digital imaging of an island > sending message?
Its not quite the same thing.

Secondly the "pulling dramatic faces the further he read down the the page." is a strong indicator its hand written because it doesnt say "pulling dramatic faces the further he read down the the screen".

Thirdly, the messenger who delivered the message is stood in the same room as him > indicates a written report.

Once more, the catalogues and photographs are going to be of ritual murder and sacrifice including symbols et cetera. Not of the Inquision burning their way through old town. Storage doesnt always mean digital storage either. The RL British Government has Archives all over London in vaults, paperwork, pictures, media footage et cetera.

As for it being inefficent, its half day of travelling.
Helicopter from the Islands to cornwall and then drive to London, or... another helicopter to London.

[Sargun II]

[quote name='Zoot Zoot' timestamp='1297359153' post='2628067']
Digital imaging of an island > sending message?
Its not quite the same thing.[/quote]

You still have to send requests to the satellite and orders to the operator(s) of the satellite(s).

[quote name='Zoot Zoot' timestamp='1297359153' post='2628067']
Secondly the "pulling dramatic faces the further he read down the the page." is a strong indicator its hand written because it doesnt say "pulling dramatic faces the further he read down the the screen".[/quote]
Have you heard of this thing called a printer? It's relatively new technology, maybe you haven't. Point invalid.

[quote name='Zoot Zoot' timestamp='1297359153' post='2628067']
Thirdly, the messenger who delivered the message is stood in the same room as him > indicates a written report.[/quote]
It indicates that somebody physically handed him a paper. It doesn't mean it's hand written. Point invalid.

[quote name='Zoot Zoot' timestamp='1297359153' post='2628067']
Once more, the catalogues and photographs are going to be of ritual murder and sacrifice including symbols et cetera. Not of the Inquision burning their way through old town.[/quote]
I didn't say anything to the contrary. Point invalid.

[quote name='Zoot Zoot' timestamp='1297359153' post='2628067']
Storage doesnt always mean digital storage either. The RL British Government has Archives all over London in vaults, paperwork, pictures, media footage et cetera.[/quote]
You didn't specify. Real-life governments also have backup copies of things scanned and saved in storage in case the originals go missing or are damaged. Again, I'm forced to assume that you use modern-day practices [b]because you didn't specify otherwise.[/b]

[quote name='Zoot Zoot' timestamp='1297359153' post='2628067']
As for it being inefficent, its half day of travelling.
Helicopter from the Islands to cornwall and then drive to London, or... another helicopter to London.
[/quote]

Thank you for proving that it's less efficient than the [b]seconds[/b] it would take to write a message and send something. That's [b]a full day[/b] of travelling just to send a message and receive an answer.

Edited February 10, 2011 by Sargun

[Zoot Zoot]

Points invalid to you, those are just your interpretations of the text.
Secure to me.

Anyway, since when has how efficient somebody runs their Nation mattered? It never has done before.

I am still lost about this satellite buisiness, dude, its taking pictures of an Island trying to find heretics, now tbh, your gonna have no idea whats on those images that would be of interest to the Government, its just gonna be pictures of several small villages, a wood and alot of open ground.

And STILL, your missing my point about Storage mate, all your going to see are the acts of mass murder and ritual sacrifice and the heretics commiting the crimes, nothing incriminating to my Government.

I didnt specify that it was done on a computer or printed off either. I wrote the roleplay for it to seem handwritten, obviously you missed it because today is the first time you have probably read the RP and your simply trying to find an excuse for you to get something seriously incriminating on my Government, when infact, in that paticular thread, theres nothing apart from the images which show groups of civilians killing and doing other stuff to other civilians and its aftermath, and images from space of St Marys island.

[Sargun II]

[quote name='Zoot Zoot' timestamp='1297360200' post='2628083']
Points invalid to you, those are just your interpretations of the text.
Secure to me.

Anyway, since when has how efficient somebody runs their Nation mattered? It never has done before.

I am still lost about this satellite buisiness, dude, its taking pictures of an Island trying to find heretics, now tbh, your gonna have no idea whats on those images that would be of interest to the Government, its just gonna be pictures of several small villages, a wood and alot of open ground.

And STILL, your missing my point about Storage mate, all your going to see are the acts of mass murder and ritual sacrifice and the heretics commiting the crimes, nothing incriminating to my Government.

I didnt specify that it was done on a computer or printed off either. I wrote the roleplay for it to seem handwritten, obviously you missed it because today is the first time you have probably read the RP and your simply trying to find an excuse for you to get something seriously incriminating on my Government, when infact, in that paticular thread, theres nothing apart from the images which show groups of civilians killing and doing other stuff to other civilians and its aftermath, and images from space of St Marys island.
[/quote]

It doesn't matter what my interpretation is, it matters what is [b]factually stated[/b]. What is factually stated is... [b]nothing[/b]. There is no statement of whether or not it's hand-written or printed. Because we live in a modern day and age, it is common sense for it to be printed. Because you clarified only after a spy op that it was hand-written, that makes it metagaming. I submit this as part one of my argument to the GMs.

Part two is that he admits he sent orders to a satellite for pictures, he has no evidence of this order being erased. It must exist, so I am able to get it.

Part three is that, again, he did not specify what happened after everything was catalogued. In any civilized country when investigating a crime or collecting evidence, digital copies of everything are made. This is standard procedure. Zoot claims, [b]after the fact,[/b] that his country doesn't follow standard procedure in regards to this while simultaneously claiming it follows standard practices of the British government in holding Archives in places. This is contradictory and only benefits him, and again, is [b]after the fact,[/b] meaning his claims are irrelevant to the topic at hand.

[King Timmy]

I propose that we ban assumptions from RP. They only ever lead to situations like this.

If people can't be bothered to talk to the other person first and sort it out first, they don't deserve to be able to RP about it.

[Centurius]

Sargun's rp is within the lines of the rules mostly. As it was not clearly specified how the records were maintained it can be assumed his hackers could access it.

However modern policy also states that each department has its own servers with individual security measures. To hack 3 departments you need 3 rolls.

[Sargun II]

[quote name='Centurius' timestamp='1297363992' post='2628156']
Sargun's rp is within the lines of the rules mostly. As it was not clearly specified how the records were maintained it can be assumed his hackers could access it.

However modern policy also states that each department has its own servers with individual security measures. To hack 3 departments you need 3 rolls.
[/quote]

Then I'll just drop the third and go for the Inquisition and Administratum, which were the main and overall points of the corresponding RP in the first place.

[Centurius]

[quote name='Sargun' timestamp='1297364135' post='2628158']
Then I'll just drop the third and go for the Inquisition and Administratum, which were the main and overall points of the corresponding RP in the first place.
[/quote]

That would be fine.

[Executive Minister]

[quote name='King Timmy' timestamp='1297362906' post='2628136']
I propose that we ban assumptions from RP. They only ever lead to situations like this.

If people can't be bothered to talk to the other person first and sort it out first, they don't deserve to be able to RP about it.
[/quote]


[quote name='Centurius' timestamp='1297363992' post='2628156']
Sargun's rp is within the lines of the rules mostly. As it was not clearly specified how the records were maintained it can be assumed his hackers could access it.

However modern policy also states that each department has its own servers with individual security measures. To hack 3 departments you need 3 rolls.
[/quote]

Supporting both these points.

[Yawoo]

[quote]I propose that we ban assumptions from RP. They only ever lead to situations like this.

If people can't be bothered to talk to the other person first and sort it out first, they don't deserve to be able to RP about it.[/quote]

Yes, let's ban assumptions from RP. That way I have to RP every single individual in my nation, what they do on a daily basis, etc...

Get real people. Assumptions in RP are good, and occasionally if a conflict occurs then the GMs do the job that they were chosen for. Quit whining.

[Zoot Zoot]

Fine, but im not recognising him getting the letter in my roleplay because I wrote it as hand written, its not my fault if he cant understand that from the text.
Ill recognise him getting detailed information on the inquisition, which I will provide later tonight in a PM.
Details will include:

operation procedure
requirements to join
job description
active operations
a list of people being watched and why

[Centurius]

[quote name='Zoot Zoot' timestamp='1297366226' post='2628180']
Fine, but im not recognising him getting the letter in my roleplay because I wrote it as hand written, its not my fault if he cant understand that from the text.
Ill recognise him getting detailed information on the inquisition, which I will provide later tonight in a PM.
Details will include:

operation procedure
requirements to join
job description
active operations
a list of people being watched and why
[/quote]

Considering I didn't get it when reading the rp the first time I can understand how he didn't get it.