king of cochin Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 [quote name='Triyun' timestamp='1308582070' post='2735846'] http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=95308&view=findpost&p=2552587 I would like to call the GM attention to this claim about building a fleet inside a mountain. Korea seems to be operating on the Uberstein principle which I thought we had all agreed against. First Korea has never maintained a navy in game and is claiming the resources to have build a huge one which it never has paid upkeep on IG. Secondly it is claiming both its nuclear facilities, its entire army, and its navy are all built in underground cities. This from a nation with again NO fall out shelter. This seems to be a pretty clear case of god moding and over reach to make oneself immune from damage. I would request that the GMs either wipe this completely or make the Koreans A) RP the construction of a navy rather than having it standing and never pay upkeep. and B) make the Koreans RP a much more reasonable level of underground development for what Kankou's IG nation possesses. [/quote] Kankou has 10 ships in game, she can RP 10 ships in RP. That is the rule. She cannot claim any combat warships of a greater number. Hidden shipyard? Hard to believe but not impossible and certainly not undetected. Any such massive cavity under ground would be found very easily through remote sensing. She may have used an existing massive cave, but building a massive cave would need lengthier RP. If Kankou has no prior RP of building these caves, it may be wiped. And no, if she has ships in game she is not required to RP its building up. Any nation can sprout from the ground one fine day and RP their armed forces as provisioned by their in game stats. Also considering the fact that an underground city would be extremely vulnerable once detected, I see only tactical neutrality in Kankou's RP. She may have done it for some perceived strengths, but there are even greater weaknesses, especially if she is RPing massed armies and ships in these gigantic caverns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kankou Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 Nuclear Facilities and the Army bunkers: I've always RPed as succeeding to all that the RL North Korea has, so I don't really see a problem with what I've written. However, no challenges against the navy part. I should have written more clearly. We might as well use this to nail done the exact functions of the fallout shelter. PS: Not sure why no one is understanding that it's not a [b]single[/b] underground city. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king of cochin Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 [quote name='Kankou' timestamp='1308582796' post='2735855'] Nuclear Facilities and the Army bunkers: I've always RPed as succeeding to all that the RL North Korea has, so I don't really see a problem with what I've written. However, no challenges against the navy part. I should have written more clearly. We might as well use this to nail done the exact functions of the fallout shelter. PS: Not sure why no one is understanding that it's not a [b]single[/b] underground city. [/quote] Single underground city or multiple same weaknesses exist. Army bunkers and nuclear facility are okay, they are more realistic but they have their exploitable vulnerabilities. In essence they are not made of Indestructablium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Executive Minister Posted June 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 (edited) [quote] 10:57 Executiveminister she never said they were in a mountain 10:57 Yawoo Exactly 10:57 Executiveminister at best i could rule that she's got them underground 10:58 Executiveminister in any case, triyun found them, so you can bunker bust them easily 10:58 Yawoo EM, you and I know that but she'll !@#$%* and moan 10:58 Executiveminister doesnt matter 10:58 Executiveminister my word's law 10:58 Executiveminister no mountain 10:58 Executiveminister just hidden facilities underground near the coast i suppose[/quote] [quote name='Triyun' timestamp='1308582070' post='2735846'] [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=95308&view=findpost&p=2552587"]http://forums.cybern...dpost&p=2552587[/url] I would like to call the GM attention to this claim about building a fleet inside a mountain. Korea seems to be operating on the Uberstein principle which I thought we had all agreed against. First Korea has never maintained a navy in game and is claiming the resources to have build a huge one which it never has paid upkeep on IG. Secondly it is claiming both its nuclear facilities, its entire army, and its navy are all built in underground cities. This from a nation with again NO fall out shelter. This seems to be a pretty clear case of god moding and over reach to make oneself immune from damage. I would request that the GMs either wipe this completely or make the Koreans A) RP the construction of a navy rather than having it standing and never pay upkeep. and B) make the Koreans RP a much more reasonable level of underground development for what Kankou's IG nation possesses. [/quote] No mountain. I'll give her the concession that she did Rp this facility far in advance of the war, but not R the hidden facility as being a mountain or underneath one, so no go there. Ill give her an underground facility near the coast that Triyun has already found, so it should be put out of commission shortly. She's got the navy she has IG as of this post, if you guys take out her shipyards, etc, then no more. Another thing. No reloading nukes Kankou - as of this post you have 2 IG nukes. Therefore, you have in existence 2 operable warheads now, and can 'regenerate OOC' 1 warhead a day since you dont have a WRC. SMH's rods-from-god-in a can. Kankou has 5 MD's, which does give her 50% coverage via conventional means. However, she DID use a nuke against your incoming ordinance. I am inclined to agree that as long as that and the nuke she fired to protect Edhestat or whatever from your missiles came out of her nuke count, more missiles should be destroyed. If no one has an objection to this, Kankou will have zero warheads remaining, and must wait for the 1 a day regen nuke to come in order to start nuking again. EDIT: Separate yet related clarification. SDIs protect against NUCLEAR ordinance. Ie: When I nuked Keshav's fleet in port, i fired 20 air launched anti-ship missiles. 4 had nuclear warheads and were treated as SDI defensible, the remaining 14 were not and up to Keshav to rp the damages. Edited June 20, 2011 by Executive Minister Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king of cochin Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 [quote name='Executive Minister' timestamp='1308583020' post='2735858'] No mountain. I'll give her the concession that she did Rp this facility far in advance of the war, but not R the hidden facility as being a mountain or underneath one, so no go there. Ill give her an underground facility near the coast that Triyun has already found, so it should be put out of commission shortly. She's got the navy she has IG as of this post, if you guys take out her shipyards, etc, then no more. Another thing. No reloading nukes Kankou - as of this post you have 2 IG nukes. Therefore, you have in existence 2 operable warheads now, and can 'regenerate OOC' 1 warhead a day since you dont have a WRC. SMH's rods-from-god-in a can. Kankou has 5 MD's, which does give her 50% coverage via conventional means. However, she DID use a nuke against your incoming ordinance. I am inclined to agree that as long as that and the nuke she fired to protect Edhestat or whatever from your missiles came out of her nuke count, more missiles should be destroyed. If no one has an objection to this, Kankou will have zero warheads remaining, and must wait for the 1 a day regen nuke to come in order to start nuking again. [/quote] ^ This And regarding SMH's rod from god, as suggested by EM, considering Kankou's missile defenses and her expenditure of a nuke, I am all for SMH's weapons all being intercepted in that salvo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Executive Minister Posted June 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 [quote name='king of cochin' timestamp='1308583194' post='2735866'] ^ This And regarding SMH's rod from god, as suggested by EM, considering Kankou's missile defenses and her expenditure of a nuke, I am all for SMH's weapons [b]all [/b]being intercepted in that salvo. [/quote] Well, not ALL per se, but at least much more than 50%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triyun Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 (edited) Cochin I'm not disputing the ten, I am disputing this claim: [quote]he [b]massive fleet[/b] in front of her, built secretly in this hidden shipyard, was the true power of Greater Korea. [/quote] Its hard for me to see how someone who seems pretty knowledgeable about other people's RP and nation sizes could describe a hidden fleet of 10 ships as massive. Edit: Also in this thread it was claimed multiple shipyards http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=102838&view=findpost&p=2735832 I think you have to agree that that many inner mountain shipyards is a bit overkill. Edited June 20, 2011 by Triyun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Executive Minister Posted June 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Triyun' timestamp='1308583635' post='2735872'] Its hard for me to see how someone who seems pretty knowledgeable about other people's RP and nation sizes could describe a hidden fleet of 10 ships as massive. [/quote] Did I not make it clear she only has the ships she has IG? EDIT: And not that massive fleet? EDIT for Triyun's EDIT: Then she simply does not have mountain facilities in those cities, just the aforementioned hidden facilities there. Edited June 20, 2011 by Executive Minister Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kankou Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 (edited) Hey, I'm not going to challenge anything about the navy except the existing 7 IG subs, 1 landing ship, and 2 carriers. So, no reason to continue arguing about this. Just destroy the facilities (using appropriate methods, of course) and be done with it :v Reference to the "no challenge": http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=97237&view=findpost&p=2735855 Also, just wondering: Can I have the option of buy nuclear weapons but not having reloads? Not certain I would choose that if given the choice, but wondering all the same for now. Edited June 20, 2011 by Kankou Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Executive Minister Posted June 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 Cent's nukes. [img]http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww106/mofailla/5nukeskorea.png?t=1308585137[/img] 0-40 green death, 41-100 intercept. looks like we have an up and coming lavo on our hands. 1 nuke hits, 4 intercepted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triyun Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 (edited) http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=102852&view=findpost&p=2735915 Requesting 3 nuke rolls on Kankou's SDI. I'd also like to call attention to this post: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=102852&view=findpost&p=2735989 As I recall when I reunified China, my missile level was capped at about 1000 after existing for several months and with assistance from Greater Pacifica, both of us at the time had about Korea's infra. Now I took much of Korea's equipment when I took over it. Meaning Korea would exist for about a month in a half maximum. It seems considering this, Korea claiming to have thousands of these weapons, especially considering posts from myself and PI to considerably diminish Korea's military infrastructure this has to be seen as Kankou a) avoiding RPing the significant damage that Korea would no doubt have taken and b) RPing more weapons than it would actually have. Link to my post mentioning that I did not return equipment: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=100412&view=findpost&p=2678927 Edited June 20, 2011 by Triyun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lavo Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 [img]http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad33/Lavo_02/spy01.png[/img] Requesting two spy rolls on the location of Kankou's underground facilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kankou Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Triyun' timestamp='1308587289' post='2735918'] considering posts from myself and PI to considerably diminish Korea's military infrastructure this has to be seen as Kankou a) avoiding RPing the significant damage that Korea would no doubt have taken[/quote] Triyun, I did say I'll update with damages after the SDI rolls, wait for it: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=102852&view=findpost&p=2735939 Also, I'm sorry to say that any ballistic missile based rod would not have as much damages are people think. Studies on Prompt Global Strike say that a 150 kg rod going at 1500 m/s would make a 3~4 meter deep crater in regular dirt ground. Since we have 5 rods per missile, I doubt that the rods would have the mas or the velocity to be of devastating damage. [quote name='Triyun' timestamp='1308587289' post='2735918']Link to my post mentioning that I did not return equipment: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=100412&view=findpost&p=2678927 [/quote] Except that you activated the Korean reserves, allowing me to RP everything I had before: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=100637&view=findpost&p=2686521 http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=100637&view=findpost&p=2686791 Otherwise, why would I have been fighting along side you against Japan using hovercrafts, tanks, the works?: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=100748&view=findpost&p=2687286 BTW, on the underground facilities: You'll be finding one at a time, so be prepared for the long hurl Edited June 20, 2011 by Kankou Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triyun Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 (edited) The Army of Korea referred to in that post is the UFE Army in Korea at the time. The Korean Reserves are your forces, but we never RPed handing back over lots of missiles to you. Further as I recall everyone including myself at the time felt that your RP of that massive land invasion was worthy of wipe, only you did not. Further please explain how the SDI would effect anything OTHER than your shipyards. You have no problem posting other attacks. Edited June 21, 2011 by Triyun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kankou Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 [quote name='Triyun' timestamp='1308614203' post='2736253'] The Army of Korea referred to in that post is the UFE Army in Korea at the time. The Korean Reserves are your forces, but we never RPed handing back over lots of missiles to you.[/quote] PM discussion concerning the weapons issue: http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac318/kousenkankou/KoreanReserves.jpg You either handed back everything or you didn't. We can go into the semantics argument, but that would only tire people out. [quote name='Triyun' timestamp='1308614203' post='2736253']Further as I recall everyone including myself at the time felt that your RP of that massive land invasion was worthy of wipe, only you did not.[/quote] Your post on the matter: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=97237&view=findpost&p=2687517 Cent's final post on the matter: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=97237&view=findpost&p=2689757 I really don't want to makes this a piss fight like what Fizzy or some others do, so just let it go, Triyun. I'm not going to let this be easy just because you or others want it to, so why not just enjoy the show? [quote name='Triyun' timestamp='1308614203' post='2736253']Further please explain how the SDI would effect anything OTHER than your shipyards. You have no problem posting other attacks. [/quote] I rather do everything in one shot, instead of constant editing. It's not like it'll be a life or death situation if I don't edit it in today. I have my own life to deal with. So really, take a breather and wait, I'll get to it. (never mind I have that RP with Sarah to get to) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triyun Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 (edited) I don't see any mention of giving 700 ballistic missiles there. This has nothing to do with easy, this has to do with the fact that you make near constant claims of your having all these things that are unrealistic from 1000 Yamato battleship turrets lining the coast, to geo sync satellites which can see everything at Fort Beihai, to having a whole other nation buried under your nation that I somehow would not know about despite occupying you for a year. Edited June 21, 2011 by Triyun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kankou Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 [quote name='Triyun' timestamp='1308615412' post='2736271'] I don't see any mention of giving 700 ballistic missiles there. [/quote] Did you have to write down every single weapon for them to be transferred? [i]Didn't know that~♥[/i] [quote name='Triyun' timestamp='1308615412' post='2736271']1000 Yamato battleship turrets lining the coast[/quote] Which you have, since they were in former New Kyoto [quote name='Triyun' timestamp='1308615412' post='2736271']to geo sync satellites which can see everything at Fort Beihai[/quote] Yeah yeah, you got me with this, but then, I'm the only one (besides Cochin and Lynneth, I believe) who properly RPs satellite positions, unlike the instant moves that most others do. It's something all should be doing, including you, Triyun. [quote name='Triyun' timestamp='1308615412' post='2736271']to having a whole other nation buried under your nation that I somehow would not know about despite occupying you for a year. [/quote] Have you actively looked for them? I remember that finding out hidden locations requires active search, with no simple "know all" because you happen to occupy the area. If we follow your logic, I would know everything about Japan when I had troops there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynneth Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 [quote name='Kankou' timestamp='1308618139' post='2736310'] The harpooning would automatically activate the self-destruction process, causing even more dangerous debris to be generated. For all the technological advances of Sri Lanka, their fleet could not escape being severely damaged during the operation. It seemed like a good deed was turning things worse. [/quote] I'd like to contest this. If the electronics got fried, how the hell would those things self-destruct, or even know to do so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HHAYD Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Lynneth' timestamp='1308618354' post='2736311'] I'd like to contest this. If the electronics got fried, how the hell would those things self-destruct, or even know to do so? [/quote] I'm assuming the electronics received a lethal dosage of high wattage/voltage current. It shouldn't be that hard to rig a bomb to explode upon contact with a current surge. Edited June 21, 2011 by HHAYD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynneth Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 (edited) [quote name='HHAYD' timestamp='1308618576' post='2736317'] I'm assuming the electronics received a lethal dosage of high wattage/voltage current. It shouldn't be that hard to rig a bomb to explode upon contact with a current surge. [/quote] Except who would expect a [i]satellite[/i] to receive such a surge? A [b]satellite[/b] of all things! Edited June 21, 2011 by Lynneth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HHAYD Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 (edited) Oh, you used magnetism. They're harmless to electronics as they lack any magnetism (silicon and copper aren't magnetic). Unless if Kankou's satellites were using magnet-based storage, it won't delete the data either. Unless if you used some seriously powerful ones, but those would murder your space shuttles and the crew inside (pulling iron out of hemoglobin proteins) long before they can lift off. http://www.pcworld.com/article/116572/busting_the_biggest_pc_myths.html Edited June 21, 2011 by HHAYD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynneth Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 Regardless of that, how would the sats know to explode? I'd like to know that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kankou Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Lynneth' timestamp='1308618775' post='2736322'] Except who would expect a [i]satellite[/i] to receive such a surge? A [b]satellite[/b] of all things! [/quote] After Dalmatia using a massive ASBM wave in a silly attempt to take out Korea's satellite system, you would expect a country which is more paranoid than RL North Korea and Iran put together to think of anything and everything that could happen. And really, if there's a disturbance with the satellite which i supposed to shut it down, wouldn't it be logically to have automatic triggering of self-destruction? Not really going to get into whether the data are deleted or not, since that's not the point. [quote name='Lynneth' timestamp='1308619048' post='2736327'] Regardless of that, how would the sats know to explode? I'd like to know that. [/quote] Explosives in the satellites for self destruction and spreading of debris for scorched space tactics. Nothing special. Edited June 21, 2011 by Kankou Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynneth Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 [quote name='HHAYD' timestamp='1308618891' post='2736325'] Oh, you used magnetism. They're harmless to electronics as they lack any magnetism (silicon and copper aren't magnetic). Unless if Kankou's satellites were using magnet-based storage, it won't delete the data either. Unless if you used some seriously powerful ones, but those would murder your space shuttles and the crew inside (pulling iron out of hemoglobin proteins) long before they can lift off. http://www.pcworld.com/article/116572/busting_the_biggest_pc_myths.html [/quote] Electromagnets work a little differently from normal magnets. If it's powerful enough, it creates an EMP-effect of sorts, which would fry the electronics, crashing the system. How would it then know to self-destruct, without any sensors to rely on and the OS being dead? [quote name='Kankou' timestamp='1308619126' post='2736329'] After Dalmatia using a massive ASBM wave in a silly attempt to take out Korea's satellite system, you would expect a country which is more paranoid than RL North Korea and Iran put together to think of anything and everything that could happen. And really, if there's a disturbance with the satellite which i supposed to shut it down, wouldn't it be logically to have automatic triggering of self-destruction? Not really going to get into whether the data are deleted or not, since that's not the point. Explosives in the satellites for self destruction and spreading of debris for scorched space tactics. Nothing special. [/quote] Your guys thought of harpoons. Electromagnetic ones. In space. [i]Really?[/i] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargun II Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 [quote name='Kankou' timestamp='1308617827' post='2736304'] Did you have to write down every single weapon for them to be transferred? [i]Didn't know that~♥[/i] [/quote] Giving an army "arms" weapons to fight with and giving back a thousand missiles are quite different things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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