Little Fame Monster Posted October 3, 2010 Report Share Posted October 3, 2010 (edited) What are your thoughts about the leaked/or joke images of Pandora's Box? What if such a bloc were to come together? Edited October 3, 2010 by Sentinal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacob Reiffenstein Posted October 3, 2010 Report Share Posted October 3, 2010 [quote name='JT Jag' timestamp='1286062229' post='2472578'] Rumor has it STA and GOONS have opened diplomatic channels and the leadership of both alliances are actually developing something of a cordial relationship lately, do you have any comment? [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorponok Posted October 3, 2010 Report Share Posted October 3, 2010 Thoughts towards [i][b]Pandoras Box[/b][/i]? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzelger Posted October 3, 2010 Report Share Posted October 3, 2010 [quote name='Skippy' timestamp='1286117344' post='2472971'] Hm, I'll be the third TIOer to make a post here Are there any thoughts as to the recent gov change TIO has made? (MvP and Bern stepping down, Sentinal and myself stepping up) [/quote]Those items were all good news. It was unfathomable to me that you would let either of those into government. [quote name='Sentinal' timestamp='1286130196' post='2473198'] What are your thoughts about the leaked/or joke images of Pandora's Box? What if such a bloc were to come together? [/quote] It's not really earthshaking. Those alliances were already aligned more or less on the same side of the web so I don't see it changing things much unless they adopt a bloc philosophy that diverges from the alliances' historical positions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT Jag Posted October 3, 2010 Report Share Posted October 3, 2010 [quote name='Scorponok' timestamp='1286132185' post='2473264'] Thoughts towards [i][b]Pandoras Box[/b][/i]? [/quote]You're a little late to ask this pal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzelger Posted October 3, 2010 Report Share Posted October 3, 2010 And since these were missed: [quote name='supercoolyellow' timestamp='1286064221' post='2472598'] What is your opinion of FOK and iFOK? [/quote] We have never had much interaction with either alliance. iFOK were good sports during our brief war with them during biPolar. FOK has some solid alliances that vouch for them, but they're also allied to PC (and soon to GOONS, if rumors are correct) so on the whole I'm pretty much neutral on them. [quote name='New Frontier' timestamp='1286078896' post='2472751'] I came to ask the same question that Mr. Virginia did, so I will simply ask my default question. Gondor, discuss. [/quote] I like Jaym. I approve of the theme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Fame Monster Posted October 3, 2010 Report Share Posted October 3, 2010 [quote name='Scorponok' timestamp='1286132185' post='2473264'] Thoughts towards [i][b]Pandoras Box[/b][/i]? [/quote] Ha. In before Scorp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted October 3, 2010 Report Share Posted October 3, 2010 (edited) How would STA define an alliance and why does Kerberos Nexus not fit this definition? If KN eventually grows to fit all the criteria for you guys to consider it an alliance, will you remove the sanction on me or do you plan to support GOONS throughout their war with KN? Edited October 3, 2010 by Methrage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzelger Posted October 3, 2010 Report Share Posted October 3, 2010 For the purposes of tech raiding the Siberian Tiger Alliance defines an alliance as anything other than "None" in the alliance affiliation field. For sanctions, which is what you really mean, it's a bit more subjective. To be honest I'm a little hazy on the genesis of this round of Methrage vs GOONS, other than it has induced an extraordinary number of posts not worth reading. My understanding of it is that a member of your alliance attacked GOONS randomly and you jumped on board. Unprovoked* aggression is roguery. The only difference between doing it on the large scale and the small scale is the practicality of curbing it with sanctions. *This is where the subjectivity comes in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted October 3, 2010 Report Share Posted October 3, 2010 [quote name='bzelger' timestamp='1286138345' post='2473397'] For the purposes of tech raiding the Siberian Tiger Alliance defines an alliance as anything other than "None" in the alliance affiliation field. For sanctions, which is what you really mean, it's a bit more subjective. To be honest I'm a little hazy on the genesis of this round of Methrage vs GOONS, other than it has induced an extraordinary number of posts not worth reading. My understanding of it is that a member of your alliance attacked GOONS randomly and you jumped on board. Unprovoked* aggression is roguery. The only difference between doing it on the large scale and the small scale is the practicality of curbing it with sanctions. *This is where the subjectivity comes in. [/quote] I was told you guys don't reconize KN as an alliance and that's why the sanctions won't be removed, but under your own definitions it seems we meet the criteria as you seem to have it defined well, so why are you guys listening to GOONS definition? Also it wasn't exactly random, me and my alliance mate who attacked were both part of a previous alliance I formed which I ended up disbanding during my last war with GOONS and KN formed while we were still at war with them in a conflict which they attacked me. KN didn't get peace from the last war until unreasonable reps were paid for a war started by GOONS, so we do have reason to dislike GOONS and a history which includes them attacking us then demanding high reps. Also if someone from Fark attacked someone from GOONS, then Fark government backed that members actions and also declared war on GOONS. Would you consider the Fark to of gone rogue for backing this members actions instead of paying reps? Even if you disagree with the reason for war it was still an alliance action as soon as I decided to back my member. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzelger Posted October 3, 2010 Report Share Posted October 3, 2010 Our tech-raiding definition is rigorous. Whether we choose to extend diplomatic recognition to alliances is independant from that. In your example, yes, Fark would fit my criterion for a rogue body (I know the usual definition for a rogue is one acting without the sanction of a recognized government, but that's a stupid definition) but a variety of political realities (e.g., Fark having their own senatorial power, limited ability to place sanctions) preclude responding in the same fashion. As GOONS agreed to peace in the first war with yourself and had not attacked the second incarnation of KN, I am unable to support your methodology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted October 3, 2010 Report Share Posted October 3, 2010 [quote name='bzelger' timestamp='1286139859' post='2473433'] Our tech-raiding definition is rigorous. Whether we choose to extend diplomatic recognition to alliances is independant from that. In your example, yes, Fark would fit my criterion for a rogue body (I know the usual definition for a rogue is one acting without the sanction of a recognized government, but that's a stupid definition) but a variety of political realities (e.g., Fark having their own senatorial power, limited ability to place sanctions) preclude responding in the same fashion. As GOONS agreed to peace in the first war with yourself and had not attacked the second incarnation of KN, I am unable to support your methodology. [/quote] Even if you don't support me and won't recognize us an alliance doesn't mean you have to help GOONS using your sanction, how long do you guys plan to keep the sanction on me if a peace agreement isn't reached with GOONS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pezstar Posted October 3, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2010 [quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1286143050' post='2473484'] Even if you don't support me and won't recognize us an alliance doesn't mean you have to help GOONS using your sanction, how long do you guys plan to keep the sanction on me if a peace agreement isn't reached with GOONS? [/quote] Until you no longer need to be sanctioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim Jaym Il Posted October 3, 2010 Report Share Posted October 3, 2010 [quote name='bzelger' timestamp='1286132765' post='2473283'] I like Jaym. I approve of the theme. [/quote] Suck it, Cheyenne. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted October 3, 2010 Report Share Posted October 3, 2010 [quote name='pezstar' timestamp='1286143453' post='2473491'] Until you no longer need to be sanctioned. [/quote] When do I not need to be sanctioned anymore? The way your saying it sounds like either never or when my nation can't function anymore, as there has never been a need for you guys to have me sanctioned. GOONS getting hurt doesn't negatively impact STA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pezstar Posted October 3, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2010 [quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1286143787' post='2473499'] When do I not need to be sanctioned anymore? The way your saying it sounds like either never or when my nation can't function anymore, as there has never been a need for you guys to have me sanctioned. GOONS getting hurt doesn't negatively impact STA. [/quote] You seem to not have a basic understanding of how sanctions work. You don't need to be hurting an alliance in order for them to sanction you. For a very, very long time, senators have sanctioned nations at the request of other alliances as a measure of courtesy. GOONS asked us to sanction you and presented the case. We agreed with their case and issued the sanction. Until you're no longer a rogue, you'll remain sanctioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Maximus Posted October 3, 2010 Report Share Posted October 3, 2010 Thoughts on TKTB? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted October 3, 2010 Report Share Posted October 3, 2010 (edited) [quote name='pezstar' timestamp='1286144193' post='2473507'] You seem to not have a basic understanding of how sanctions work. You don't need to be hurting an alliance in order for them to sanction you. For a very, very long time, senators have sanctioned nations at the request of other alliances as a measure of courtesy. GOONS asked us to sanction you and presented the case. We agreed with their case and issued the sanction. Until you're no longer a rogue, you'll remain sanctioned. [/quote] If GOONS don't want to ever me go from war, would STA continue to support them and is it possible for an alliance to be unclassified as rogues with you guys? Edited October 3, 2010 by Methrage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pezstar Posted October 3, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2010 [quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1286144630' post='2473514'] If GOONS don't want to ever me go from war, would STA continue to support them and is it possible for an alliance to be unclassified as rogues with you guys? [/quote] That's a pretty big "if". It's my understanding that GOONS is more than willing to discuss peace with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bavaricar Posted October 3, 2010 Report Share Posted October 3, 2010 [quote name='pezstar' timestamp='1286144696' post='2473515'] That's a pretty big "if". It's my understanding that GOONS is more than willing to discuss peace with you. [/quote] Hate to butt in here again, but I think you know the barrier to peace for KN is our refusal to participate in their "mercy" [OOC]player humiliation[/OOC] board. Someone the other day really hit the nail on the head, GOON requirements for peace for alliances or nations who declare on them or fight back have nothing to do with Planet Bob politics. It's all lulz and schadenfreude with no relation to this realm. After seeing how the goons still like to stalk nation leaders outside of this realm, their forum is one place I will never visit in this incarnation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT Jag Posted October 3, 2010 Report Share Posted October 3, 2010 [quote name='Bavaricar' timestamp='1286145829' post='2473529'] After seeing how the goons still like to stalk nation leaders outside of this realm, their forum is one place I will never visit in this incarnation. [/quote]This is a serious accusation, and seeing as a conclusion has been reached that it was one rogue ex-goon it is a very irresponsible one too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bavaricar Posted October 3, 2010 Report Share Posted October 3, 2010 [quote name='JT Jag' timestamp='1286146017' post='2473534'] This is a serious accusation, and seeing as a conclusion has been reached that it was one rogue ex-goon it is a very irresponsible one too. [/quote] Hardly. Methrage was not the only one targeted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted October 3, 2010 Report Share Posted October 3, 2010 (edited) [quote name='JT Jag' timestamp='1286146017' post='2473534'] This is a serious accusation, and seeing as a conclusion has been reached that it was one rogue ex-goon it is a very irresponsible one too. [/quote] I've decided not to pursue that further, but I doubt it was really the work of one ex-goon who was no longer around when the incident happened. Edited October 3, 2010 by Methrage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT Jag Posted October 3, 2010 Report Share Posted October 3, 2010 Either way this discussion isn't about our tiff, it's about asking STA government questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bavaricar Posted October 3, 2010 Report Share Posted October 3, 2010 [quote name='JT Jag' timestamp='1286146503' post='2473551'] Either way this discussion isn't about our tiff, it's about asking STA government questions. [/quote] Well, it's part of the question of under what circumstances might the STA remove their sanction from Methrage's nation. At this point, it sounds like the answer is yes, if he jumps through your [ooc]something awful[/ooc] hoops. I just wanted it to be known that by leaving the sanction on until he participates in your mercy board, such a sanction rides dangerously close to endorsing your mercy board. Understand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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