Arieg Posted March 1, 2010 Report Share Posted March 1, 2010 I've noticed that CN doesn't take into account the variety of methods and countermeasures to nuclear exchanges, then again it also doesn't take into account the finality of even a limited nuclear exchange. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canaris Posted March 2, 2010 Report Share Posted March 2, 2010 [quote name='Arieg' date='01 March 2010 - 06:55 PM' timestamp='1267487937' post='2210460'] I've noticed that CN doesn't take into account the variety of methods and countermeasures to nuclear exchanges, then again it also doesn't take into account the finality of even a limited nuclear exchange. [/quote] This is true. Like you said earlier: nukes are the finisher, the deathblow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargun II Posted March 2, 2010 Report Share Posted March 2, 2010 [quote name='Canaris' date='01 March 2010 - 05:53 PM' timestamp='1267487790' post='2210455'] You're still hung up on size and strength for some reason. People don't remain small on purpose. They go into this kind of thing looking to grow. Even I'm guilty of that. Doesn't change anything. Everyone has their glorious vision of a setting that is ideal in their own eyes. [/quote] I go into this kind of thing looking for a good write. I've been under 40k NS for over two years. Vince has only slowly been gaining strength and has been in it for a long time, and he made the tech scale - and he's mainly in it for a good story. I'm not even going to tell you what Sarah's in it for, that's just silliness. The rules weren't made by huge players looking to dominate. Most of the rules today were made by smaller players who have remained small and are in it mainly to RP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arieg Posted March 2, 2010 Report Share Posted March 2, 2010 Deathblow? More like using your last shot then getting eaten alive by mob of zombies, nuclear weapons are a deterrent not an option. Then again as I've stated CN doesn't take this into account. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canaris Posted March 2, 2010 Report Share Posted March 2, 2010 [quote name='Sargun' date='01 March 2010 - 06:57 PM' timestamp='1267488076' post='2210465'] I go into this kind of thing looking for a good write. I've been under 40k NS for over two years. Vince has only slowly been gaining strength and has been in it for a long time, and he made the tech scale - and he's mainly in it for a good story. I'm not even going to tell you what Sarah's in it for, that's just silliness. The rules weren't made by huge players looking to dominate. Most of the rules today were made by smaller players who have remained small and are in it mainly to RP. [/quote] Why are you still talking about size, then? That's not even entering into my argument in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargun II Posted March 2, 2010 Report Share Posted March 2, 2010 [quote name='Canaris' date='01 March 2010 - 06:01 PM' timestamp='1267488325' post='2210471'] Why are you still talking about size, then? That's not even entering into my argument in the first place. [/quote] You're up in arms about the rules being made to suit the "old guard" and a select group of people with nations large enough to take advantage of wonders. [quote name='Canaris' date='01 March 2010 - 03:37 PM' timestamp='1267479634' post='2210280'] This sounds a little too much like the old nations looking after their own interests, what with the way the rules seem to be picked and chosen. The internet's not a threat to their power, so it doesn't have to be restricted, but anti-nuke missiles certainly are. I just take issue with what looks like the old guard imparting a monopoly on power. [/quote] [quote name='Canaris' date='01 March 2010 - 04:53 PM' timestamp='1267484238' post='2210356'] Actually, it can be helped. I'm not talking about there being strong and weak nations, I'm talking about reality being bent to cater to the strong. Unless this is, unfortunately, just another board obsessed with their e-peens that I've stumbled into. [/quote] [quote name='Canaris' date='01 March 2010 - 05:20 PM' timestamp='1267485819' post='2210392'] Otherwise, everything is arbitrary and specifically constructed to the tastes of a few individuals. [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Executive Minister Posted March 2, 2010 Report Share Posted March 2, 2010 [quote name='Sargun' date='01 March 2010 - 06:08 PM' timestamp='1267485117' post='2210371'] Wrong. Back when I first started RPing, I had a nuclear weapon used against my country by a terrorist group even though I had no nukes myself. Technology wasn't tiered and it although I was considered about a sub-modern country I still RP'd with modern advances. Tech really only became an issue during war, and even then wars were decided more on tactics and less on numbers. Before I joined, people RP'd whatever they wanted within a certain amount of reason, and even then there was a lot of silliness and ridiculousness. The shift to what you call the "injustices against weak nations" is when CNRP started shifting to be more directly intertwined with CN. Tech became tiered, wonders became more strict in use, nuclear missiles were capped at a ridiculously low strength, and navies became in-game only. This was mainly because the RP grew too large to be self-governed without a set of formal rules, and rules were needed to keep order. It should be reminded that I wrote the first set of CNRP Rules and Guidelines when I was under 20k NS, and more recent decisions have come from hawk_11, SarahTintagyl, and Vince_Sixx - nations not exactly known for being juggernauts. Reality is bent to cater to the strong in real life, in CN, and in RP. This is, unfortunately, something you'll have to live with. [/quote] Well, the foundations upon which the CNRP I was presented with then, I wasn't around for those times... I'm not exactly a fossil, you know. Also, I quoted "injustices" because I know that to some they are, but to others they aren't. I'm at the point right now where I'm on the fence about these tiers we have. It seems that new CNRPers will come to loath the tiered systems, while more experienced (but not necessarily old guarders) CNRPers will learn to accept the tiers' necessity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canaris Posted March 2, 2010 Report Share Posted March 2, 2010 I'm not even talking about nations, I'm talking about the influential players behind the nations. It's blatantly clear to me that you have constructed an environment crafted to your own tastes. There's nothing wrong with that. But the fact that you reject out of hand other ideas is very telling. You see my suggestion as a challenge, and have placed it beneath peer review. At least that's the way you've come across thus far. The only fair way to mitigate wars is to place the formulation of the rules into the hands of an objective third-party. Also, I'm not up in arms about anything. I don't really care. I just noticed the ridiculous holes in the rules and initiated dialogue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargun II Posted March 2, 2010 Report Share Posted March 2, 2010 [quote name='Executive Minister' date='01 March 2010 - 06:11 PM' timestamp='1267488908' post='2210486'] Well, the foundations upon which the CNRP I was presented with then, I wasn't around for those times... I'm not exactly a fossil, you know. Also, I quoted "injustices" because I know that to some they are, but to others they aren't. I'm at the point right now where I'm on the fence about these tiers we have. It seems that new CNRPers will come to loath the tiered systems, while more experienced (but not necessarily old guarders) CNRPers will learn to accept the tiers' necessity. [/quote] I accept their necessity, but it doesn't mean I like them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silhouette Posted March 2, 2010 Report Share Posted March 2, 2010 I had nothing to do with crafting the environment. When I started rp, I was about 15k NS, and I could live with the big nations having such control, such is life. Now I'm a 50k NS nation, and the rules favour me a bit more now. Frankly though, if you have a small nation and are silly enough to antagonise a large nation, something like an SDI would not help you much anyway, as half a million RP troops would swamp you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtleknifewielder Posted March 2, 2010 Report Share Posted March 2, 2010 [quote name='Arieg' date='01 March 2010 - 03:55 PM' timestamp='1267487937' post='2210460'] I've noticed that CN doesn't take into account the variety of methods and countermeasures to nuclear exchanges, then again it also doesn't take into account the finality of even a limited nuclear exchange. [/quote] If we did, it would quickly end. Some leeway is, of course, required, due to this. [quote name='Executive Minister' date='01 March 2010 - 04:11 PM' timestamp='1267488908' post='2210486'] Well, the foundations upon which the CNRP I was presented with then, I wasn't around for those times... I'm not exactly a fossil, you know. Also, I quoted "injustices" because I know that to some they are, but to others they aren't. I'm at the point right now where I'm on the fence about these tiers we have. It seems that new CNRPers will come to loath the tiered systems, while more experienced (but not necessarily old guarders) CNRPers will learn to accept the tiers' necessity. [/quote] You calling me a fossil? But seriously, this forum is too active NOT to have a set of rules. No matter how you do it, how impartial and fair you try to get, any particular set of rules set down will still favor some players over others. [quote name='Canaris' date='01 March 2010 - 04:14 PM' timestamp='1267489100' post='2210488'] I'm not even talking about nations, I'm talking about the influential players behind the nations. It's blatantly clear to me that you have constructed an environment crafted to your own tastes. There's nothing wrong with that. But the fact that you reject out of hand other ideas is very telling. You see my suggestion as a challenge, and have placed it beneath peer review. At least that's the way you've come across thus far. The only fair way to mitigate wars is to place the formulation of the rules into the hands of an objective third-party. Also, I'm not up in arms about anything. I don't really care. I just noticed the ridiculous holes in the rules and initiated dialogue. [/quote] We hardly reject any new ideas out of hand. Just review some of the last past pages of topics in this forum. You'll see that changes are often proposed and heavily discussed by the player base--old and new alike. Some get approved, others don't, and they have nothing to do with whether you are "Old Guard" or "Young'un" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canaris Posted March 2, 2010 Report Share Posted March 2, 2010 [quote name='Subtleknifewielder' date='01 March 2010 - 07:23 PM' timestamp='1267489634' post='2210504']We hardly reject any new ideas out of hand. Just review some of the last past pages of topics in this forum. You'll see that changes are often proposed and heavily discussed by the player base--old and new alike. Some get approved, others don't, and they have nothing to do with whether you are "Old Guard" or "Young'un" [/quote] I didn't say you, specifically, did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpacingOutMan Posted March 2, 2010 Report Share Posted March 2, 2010 And this is why I like being big, so I can stomp on the little guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canaris Posted March 2, 2010 Report Share Posted March 2, 2010 [quote name='SpacingOutMan' date='01 March 2010 - 07:26 PM' timestamp='1267489819' post='2210513'] And this is why I like being big, so I can stomp on the little guy. [/quote] Numbers alone confer no advantage in battle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arieg Posted March 2, 2010 Report Share Posted March 2, 2010 I also have yet to find anything about A-SAT capabilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canaris Posted March 2, 2010 Report Share Posted March 2, 2010 [quote name='Arieg' date='01 March 2010 - 07:33 PM' timestamp='1267490248' post='2210521'] I also have yet to find anything about A-SAT capabilities. [/quote] We're better off assuming no such thing exists, I think. I'd love to put some A-SAT missiles on my Su-24s, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Executive Minister Posted March 2, 2010 Report Share Posted March 2, 2010 (edited) Guys, it really depends on who you end up RPing with. Some people are adamant about their advantages. While others are more forgiving. Check out the East African War in my sig. SOM invaded me when i was still in the Cold War era, and we both turned out fine. Sometimes, a friendly war can give you some street cred, and really gives you a chance to show your stuff. [quote name='Canaris' date='01 March 2010 - 07:34 PM' timestamp='1267490305' post='2210524'] We're better off assuming no such thing exists, I think. I'd love to put some A-SAT missiles on my Su-24s, though. [/quote] A-SAT's are allowed. Edited March 2, 2010 by Executive Minister Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowsage Posted March 2, 2010 Report Share Posted March 2, 2010 [quote name='Canaris' date='01 March 2010 - 04:33 PM' timestamp='1267490246' post='2210520'] Numbers alone confer no advantage in battle. [/quote] Feel free to tell yourself that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arieg Posted March 2, 2010 Report Share Posted March 2, 2010 [quote name='Shadowsage' date='01 March 2010 - 07:47 PM' timestamp='1267491089' post='2210545'] Feel free to tell yourself that. [/quote] *points at Israel* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowsage Posted March 2, 2010 Report Share Posted March 2, 2010 And we're talking about CNRP, not real-life. Especially not untrained mobs calling themselves soldiers against Israel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arieg Posted March 2, 2010 Report Share Posted March 2, 2010 [quote name='Shadowsage' date='01 March 2010 - 07:50 PM' timestamp='1267491243' post='2210552'] And we're talking about CNRP, not real-life. Especially not untrained mobs calling themselves soldiers against Israel. [/quote] I'm not talking about Jihadists I'm talking about events like the Six Day War, numbers don't mean everything those who fail to take this into account end up like Iraq after Gulf War One. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtleknifewielder Posted March 2, 2010 Report Share Posted March 2, 2010 [quote name='Canaris' date='01 March 2010 - 04:25 PM' timestamp='1267489760' post='2210509'] I didn't say you, specifically, did. [/quote] No, but I am one of those players who helped shape the rules. [quote name='Canaris' date='01 March 2010 - 04:34 PM' timestamp='1267490305' post='2210524'] We're better off assuming no such thing exists, I think. I'd love to put some A-SAT missiles on my Su-24s, though. [/quote] They exist in RL...I've seen the articles. I just can't remember where to look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canaris Posted March 2, 2010 Report Share Posted March 2, 2010 [quote name='Subtleknifewielder' date='01 March 2010 - 07:56 PM' timestamp='1267491581' post='2210559'] No, but I am one of those players who helped shape the rules. They exist in RL...I've seen the articles. I just can't remember where to look. [/quote] I meant here in CNRP. Sorry about the confusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canaris Posted March 2, 2010 Report Share Posted March 2, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Shadowsage' date='01 March 2010 - 07:47 PM' timestamp='1267491089' post='2210545'] Feel free to tell yourself that. [/quote] I didn't tell myself that, Sun Tzu did. EDIT: Whoops. Sorry about the double post. Edited March 2, 2010 by Canaris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silhouette Posted March 2, 2010 Report Share Posted March 2, 2010 Sun Tzu also said that the ultimate victory is to defeat your enemies without fighting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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