TSO Announcement

[themadstork]

Happy B-day to us! and big shout out to the MCXA too!! Really guys, all the hate from a silly internet game? There are much worse things in life to worry about.

[keltoi]

[quote name='Centurius' date='25 February 2010 - 07:00 AM' timestamp='1267110232' post='2203028']
Hmm where shall we start, oh yeah betraying BLEU.
[/quote]

hahahahha! still buying the party line propoganda? think for yourself, it doesn't hurt, i promise.

[Drai]

Well at least there's no rickroll.

[hymli]

[quote name='Centurius' date='25 February 2010 - 03:00 PM' timestamp='1267110232' post='2203028']
Hmm where shall we start, oh yeah betraying BLEU.
[/quote]

If I remember correctly, there was a alliance wide vote one the matter of leaving BLEU. And the majority (me included) voted to leave because of NpO's actions surrounding the BLEU-NADC War.

Calling it a betrayal is just propaganda.

[Baden-Württemberg]

[quote name='raasaa' date='25 February 2010 - 09:31 AM' timestamp='1267086906' post='2202854']
erm....pre-TSO leaders of MCXA indulged in the same thing, during their last days in BLEU. So effectively, Fran was spying on a spy ring for a foreign enemy power [/quote]

Nope. That's wrong. The Mobius Accord was overwriting BLEU, and we were forced to pass information that risked the security of Continuum signatories. And we even said that in the BLEU channels. So yes, trying to hit Grämlins was a really bad idea.

[quote]
If the founding members of TSO, had waited to appoint replacements, train them up and ensure that MCXA was in safe hands, prior to resigning from the alliance, then i doubt MCXA would have cared where they went. But what they did do, was bail out on their own membership.[/quote]

We offered that, they asked us to leave as early as possible.

[quote]
We did not forge the hate train, that was the work of your founding members. Also, MCXA is only ONE of the alliance that your founding members have wronged. The list would be endless if we were to make a list of alliance leaders they have pissed off during their tenure as leaders of MCXA. They were shielded by BLEU, later by 1V and now by TOP.

As for MCXA choosing reps, that was the wisest decision, considering TSO poached all the active top tier nations.
[/quote]

We didn't poach them, they joined us.

[Centurius]

[quote name='keltoi' date='25 February 2010 - 05:55 PM' timestamp='1267117164' post='2203137']
hahahahha! still buying the party line propoganda? think for yourself, it doesn't hurt, i promise.
[/quote]

You're one to talk.

[quote name='hymli' date='25 February 2010 - 05:59 PM' timestamp='1267117405' post='2203143']
If I remember correctly, there was a alliance wide vote one the matter of leaving BLEU. And the majority (me included) voted to leave because of NpO's actions surrounding the BLEU-NADC War.

Calling it a betrayal is just propaganda.
[/quote]

There is a reason it took a long time to forgive MCXA for most of us, calling it betrayal is the truth as a DoW just happened to follow under 2 months later.

[raasaa]

[quote name='Baden-Württemberg' date='25 February 2010 - 12:25 PM' timestamp='1267118952' post='2203173']
Nope. That's wrong. The Mobius Accord was overwriting BLEU, and we were forced to pass information that risked the security of Continuum signatories. And we even said that in the BLEU channels. So yes, trying to hit Grämlins was a really bad idea.
[/quote]
I like that spin, quite original, haven't heard that one before. So you did betray one set of allies to appease some others...

[keltoi]

[quote name='Centurius' date='25 February 2010 - 11:07 AM' timestamp='1267125079' post='2203302']
You're one to talk.



There is a reason it took a long time to forgive MCXA for most of us, calling it betrayal is the truth as a DoW just happened to follow under 2 months later.
[/quote]yes, i am one to talk as i was involved in it directly and not basing my opinions on propaganda.

Why is so hard to just admit that polars own actions at that time caused them to get rolled?
it was only betrayal in the eyes of those who truly believe that polar had some admin given right to run roughshod over her allies, i for one do not believe this and no amount of vitriolic propaganda will ever change that.

[hymli]

[quote name='Centurius' date='25 February 2010 - 07:07 PM' timestamp='1267125079' post='2203302']
There is a reason it took a long time to forgive MCXA for most of us, calling it betrayal is the truth as a DoW just happened to follow under 2 months later.
[/quote]
if you have forgiven MCXA for this, why do you bring it up?

And since you obviously agree that this is/was an issue with the alliance MCXA, why do use it as an example of crimes committed by the alliance TSO?

During those two month, NpO/BLEU managed to do enough to establish themselves as enemies, and as a threat to the MCXA, that there was no longer any doubt as to what side MCXA had to back in that conflict.

[Baden-Württemberg]

[quote name='raasaa' date='25 February 2010 - 08:42 PM' timestamp='1267127139' post='2203349']
I like that spin, quite original, haven't heard that one before. So you did betray one set of allies to appease some others...
[/quote]

Nope.

1. We told everyone we were unhappy with the situation. You all knew our treaty. The Mobius Accords wasn't something secret.
You all knew it's a bloc that overwrites everything else, you all knew that most of the treaties have an Intelligence clause, you all knew that attacking, or even planning on attacking our allies is a bad idea.

2. You all knew, that attacking Viridia's allies was a bad idea. Hell, they were one of our close allies at that time, no way in hell Polars attack on their allies would have stayed without response from us.

3. I told you in query we are unhappy with Polars communication at that time. They left us in the dark with so many things, saying their "Emperor" is busy, yet they were able starting threads on the BLEU Forums dissing our allies.

4. Fresh at that time, talked to each any every of you, about booting Polar from BLEU for exactly these actions. You didn't want to boot them, thus the only logical thing for us to do was following the will of our Members and resigning.

I doubt we are the ones spinning the facts here, nice try though.

[raasaa]

[quote name='keltoi' date='25 February 2010 - 02:42 PM' timestamp='1267127173' post='2203352']
Why is so hard to just admit that polars own actions at that time caused them to get rolled?
it was only betrayal in the eyes of those who truly believe that polar had some admin given right to run roughshod over her allies, i for one do not believe this and no amount of vitriolic propaganda will ever change that.
[/quote]
Well, i am yet to see any attempt from MCXA towards changing it or addressing the "NpO running roughshod over her allies" issue with allies in BLEU. Before MCXA's exit from BLEU, you guys tried to poach the other BLEU allies, feeding us BS, trying to turn us against NpO, thus leaving NpO hanging dry. Plotting against your own MADP partner....is that a requirement in the Mobius Accords as well..i am guessing it is cos we had a similar experience ??

Playing the innocent victim doesn't suit your alliance at all......

[keltoi]

[quote name='raasaa' date='25 February 2010 - 11:50 AM' timestamp='1267127654' post='2203361']
Well, i am yet to see any attempt from MCXA towards changing it or addressing the "NpO running roughshod over her allies" issue with allies in BLEU. Before MCXA's exit from BLEU, you guys tried to poach the other BLEU allies, feeding us BS, trying to turn us against NpO, thus leaving NpO hanging dry. Plotting against your own MADP partner....is that a requirement in the Mobius Accords as well..i am guessing it is cos we had a similar experience ??

Playing the innocent victim doesn't suit your alliance at all......
[/quote]no one was innocent raasaa, you know this as well as i do. Did i take serious sponges threat to roll us? yes i did. were actions taken against polar because of them? yes they were.

[Baden-Württemberg]

[quote name='raasaa' date='25 February 2010 - 08:50 PM' timestamp='1267127654' post='2203361']
Well, i am yet to see any attempt from MCXA towards changing it or addressing the "NpO running roughshod over her allies" issue with allies in BLEU. Before MCXA's exit from BLEU, you guys tried to poach the other BLEU allies, feeding us BS, trying to turn us against NpO, thus leaving NpO hanging dry. Plotting against your own MADP partner....is that a requirement in the Mobius Accords as well..i am guessing it is cos we had a similar experience ??

Playing the innocent victim doesn't suit your alliance at all......
[/quote]

See, you are the one spinning the story.

IIRC every alliance in BLEU was equal. You cannot coup someone equal. We tried to get them booted because in our opinion their actions didn't meet BLEU's standards anymore. Same could have been said about their communication. The rest of BLEU disagreed, thus we left. There are plenty of alliances leaving blocs for less reasons, and getting hailed for doing so. This isn't about the facts, this is about your hatred.


Also, I don't know what Fresh told you, and I am certainly no fan of him, yet I am quite certain that it wasn't a big big lie, as you claim.
I however think, that this is you trying to spin the story.

We had plenty of reasons resigning from BLEU, some of them are mentioned above. There is no way and no reason for us spinning the story.

[KingEd]

[quote name='hymli' date='25 February 2010 - 12:45 PM' timestamp='1267102135' post='2202937']
I guess that depends what you mean by there. For instance, I was there to witness the leadership cowardly cancellation of the treaty with NPO before the Karma war, I was also there to protest this action along with the rest of the membership, I was there to put my nation on the line for MCXA and I was there to witness the leadership telling the membership to accept individual surrender terms.
[/quote]

Leadership telling members to what ? I doubt that ever happened and if it did, it sure as hell wasn't me. The NPO cancellations, sure pin in on that. No one ever mentions they failed to inform us that they were launching attacks while in peace-talks, and Moo's internet dropping every 10s didn't help the situation.

[quote name='TheMadStork' date='25 February 2010 - 03:02 PM' timestamp='1267110354' post='2203030']
Happy B-day to us! and big shout out to the MCXA too!! Really guys, all the hate from a silly internet game? There are much worse things in life to worry about.
[/quote]

There has to be drama, otherwise, who would play ?

[Baden-Württemberg]

[quote name='KingEd' date='25 February 2010 - 09:48 PM' timestamp='1267131093' post='2203433']
Leadership telling members to what ? I doubt that ever happened and if it did, it sure as hell wasn't me. The NPO cancellations, sure pin in on that. No one ever mentions they failed to inform us that they were launching attacks while in peace-talks, and Moo's internet dropping every 10s didn't help the situation.



There has to be drama, otherwise, who would play ?
[/quote]

How about you sing for us

I'd love a belated birthday song. We can even start a CN's best idol contest.

[hymli]

[quote name='KingEd' date='25 February 2010 - 08:48 PM' timestamp='1267131093' post='2203433']
Leadership telling members to what ? I doubt that ever happened and if it did, it sure as hell wasn't me. The NPO cancellations, sure pin in on that. No one ever mentions they failed to inform us that they were launching attacks while in peace-talks, and Moo's internet dropping every 10s didn't help the situation.
[/quote]
Oh it happened. But I'm not looking to pin anything anywhere, other that to establish that I was, as you say, there.

[mythicknight]

How unfortunate.

[John Michaels]

An unsurprisingly terrible topic by an unsurprisingly terrible alliance. Here's to hoping the next one isn't such a tease.

[keltoi]

[quote name='John Michaels' date='25 February 2010 - 01:15 PM' timestamp='1267132710' post='2203472']
An unsurprisingly terrible topic by an unsurprisingly terrible alliance. Here's to hoping the next one isn't such a tease.
[/quote]glad to see you add something intelligent to this cesspool of opinion

[MaGneT]

[quote name='keltoi' date='25 February 2010 - 11:55 AM' timestamp='1267117164' post='2203137']
hahahahha! still buying the party line propoganda? think for yourself, it doesn't hurt, i promise.
[/quote]
[quote name='hymli' date='25 February 2010 - 11:59 AM' timestamp='1267117405' post='2203143']
If I remember correctly, there was a alliance wide vote one the matter of leaving BLEU. And the majority (me included) voted to leave because of NpO's actions surrounding the BLEU-NADC War.

Calling it a betrayal is just propaganda.
[/quote]
The same war the MCXA supported wholeheartedly if it meant getting Dr. Fresh a guaranteed senate seat every cycle, of course. Please don't act like dear old Sammy, Ololiqui and Co. were innocent while Assington, Sponge, Myworld and the rest of BLEU's leadership plotted against their will. MCXA's government was just as complicit in that mistake.

And MCXA's mind was already made up when Pacifica told their lapdogs their plan for NpO. You all know full well that BLEU was very much open to change, in fact, we had an entire thread on our forums where we saw the error of our ways and were working towards cleaning up our rep. MCXA was informed of this. MCXA did not care. MCXA stabbed their allies in the back, no matter how you cut it. And MCXA, at that time, was led by the cowards who call themselves "TSO".

[keltoi]

you been drinking the kool-aid for too long maggie, there just isnt any way that anyone involved can take you very seriously at this point.

[Lusitan]

[quote name='MaGneT' date='25 February 2010 - 09:34 PM' timestamp='1267133850' post='2203544']
And MCXA's mind was already made up when Pacifica told their lapdogs their plan for NpO. You all know full well that BLEU was very much open to change, in fact, we had an entire thread on our forums where we saw the error of our ways and were working towards cleaning up our rep. MCXA was informed of this. MCXA did not care. MCXA stabbed their allies in the back, no matter how you cut it. And MCXA, at that time, was led by the cowards who call themselves "TSO".
[/quote]

Not that it is my business, but I am not sure how you say that of MCXA and hang around (even if at NOIR) with an alliance like Sparta who did what you say MCXA did in much larger perspective - cancelling both Mobius Accords and individual MDP with NPO and attacking them during the same war only 3 days later. In your version, MCXA at least had the decency of waiting 2 months for that

[Rahhstah]

Happy Birthday TSO!!!

[MaGneT]

[quote name='keltoi' date='25 February 2010 - 04:43 PM' timestamp='1267134436' post='2203584']
you been drinking the kool-aid for too long maggie, there just isnt any way that anyone involved can take you very seriously at this point.
[/quote]
Yes, of course. I might be drinking Kool-Aid, but you happen to seem like you've been drinking mercury. This lure probably isn't worth biting on.

But, because I truly have a hobby of publicly deriding scatterbrained folks like yourself, I'll grace you with the honor of a reply.

Whose Kool-Aid could I be drinking? My own? My opinion of the "alliance" known as TSO is based solely on my own experience with its founders, not the words of anyone else. I watched as those marionettes abandoned BLEU when the Pacificans holding their strings yanked them away. I watched as they abandoned their own alliance once they saw danger, and became the lackeys of a new world power. I'd say TSO only has two redeeming qualities: Watchman (he's awesome) and the fact that you finally stood and fought for an ally. I've gotta admit, I was a bit shocked that this announcement wasn't a protectorate treaty with MK (to my allies in MK, sorry for even suggesting that you would align yourself with scum like TSO).

I'm quite amused by your comment about me being taken seriously, though. I'll take it as a compliment coming from the likes of you, whoever you are.
[quote name='Lusitan' date='25 February 2010 - 04:58 PM' timestamp='1267135327' post='2203621']
Not that it is my business, but I am not sure how you say that of MCXA and hang around (even if at NOIR) with an alliance like Sparta who did what you say MCXA did in much larger perspective - cancelling both Mobius Accords and individual MDP with NPO and attacking them during the same war only 3 days later. In your version, MCXA at least had the decency of waiting 2 months for that
[/quote]
I'll be open about my hypocrisy. I hold a grudge because TSO (in the form of MCXA) wronged myself and my allies, and I understand the circumstances around it.
The Sparta situation, however, never impacted me.

Edited February 25, 2010 by MaGneT

[keltoi]

[quote name='MaGneT' date='25 February 2010 - 03:02 PM' timestamp='1267139132' post='2203769']


[b]I'll be open about my hypocrisy. I hold a grudge because TSO (in the form of MCXA) wronged myself[/b] and my allies, and I understand the circumstances around it.
The Sparta situation, however, never impacted me.
[/quote]
thank you, i've been waiting for 2 and a half years for you to admit this one simple truth.

and now that you have, boo effin hoo