New change to tech multiplying.

[Brother Kane]

I think this actually may be a good thing for my nation. I was considering doing more tech deals so I could get the final 0.2% to get nukes, but now that I'm down to 6.2% I may sell off my excess technology for a high price (to friends of mine who will buy it high) and spend the extra cash on infrastructure. Y'know, get like another thousand or so.

For all you chumps complaining that you're not nuclear anymore: sell your technology and buy infrastructure. Sure, your strength will drop a few thousand, but the infrastructure will raise that a bit and your income will increase.

Infra = 3

Tech = 5

If I sell 50 tech for 3 million (connections are good) and buy 70 infrastructure with it I have a net loss of 40 NS, but my income goes up. Its worth it to me.

[Masta]

You keep saying how you got screwed... but you haven't told us exactly how yet.

You still make the same amount of money, you can actually attack a larger range of people now, your military power in combat is exactly the same, and your rank is probably +/- 1% of where it was before this update.

So exactly how did you get screwed? You keep dodging this question.

If admin had arbitrarily lowered everyones NS by 90%... it wouldn't change anything. In the same way, this didn't change anything. All it did was put a REALISTIC value to tech, not the over inflated 20 NS that it had. OH NO YOU HAD AN ARTIFICIALLY HIGH NS THAT WOULD HAVE GOTTEN SMOKED IF YOU HAD ANY COMBAT!! Now you know you aren't as strong as you thought you were. Stop bawwing and spend some time making your nation better. You will accomplish more.

People who were just yesterday a few K NS lower than me are now above me, I've wasted 100's of millions on tech that is now worth 75% less for what I bought it to do(boost NS). I'm currently 500+ rankings back from where I was yesterday.

Will we be refunded the millions we spent on tech for the express purpose of boosting NS?

No we won't. So many of us have wasted 100's of millions of dollars that could have spent on infra instead because we chose to use a perfectly legal strategy in the game.

Example(I know the numbers don't add, it's an example not an equation):

I spend 100 million on tech to gain 10k strength.

A different nation spends 100 million on infra to gain 10k strength.

The tech multiplier changes so my 100 mil of tech now only gains me 2.5k strength, but the other dude who spent 100 mil on infra doesn't lose a single point of NS.

My rank drops, his goes up(due to other techers dropping).

I just got screwed because of a perfectly legal gameplay strategy, while he gains from it.

Fair or not, it still pisses me off I'm being punished for doing nothing wrong.

[thomas20]

AHAHAHA, this is the best post in the thread.

To appease you fears, admin definitely understood WHY this needed to be changed in the discussion topics in the suggestion box forum, so I don't see him giving in to the bawwers. But as an appeasement method I fully support the additional 0's method. Hell, even just one additional 0 and most people would probably be praising admin... which just goes to show how dumb people really are. Of course this also explains how the US is lead by George Bush...

"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups."

I believe the one zero addition at the end would have been sufficient but now that I have suggested three and even six, one just wouldn't cut it anymore.

[idriveavw]

Once again, all they have done is turned this game more into a SIM game then a war game.

this isn't a war game. it's a political simulator

[diskord]

People who were just yesterday a few K NS lower than me are now above me, I've wasted 100's of millions on tech that is now worth 75% less for what I bought it to do(boost NS). I'm currently 500+ rankings back from where I was yesterday.

Will we be refunded the millions we spent on tech for the express purpose of boosting NS?

No we won't. So many of us have wasted 100's of millions of dollars that could have spent on infra instead because we chose to use a perfectly legal strategy in the game.

Example(I know the numbers don't add, it's an example not an equation):

I spend 100 million on tech to gain 10k strength.

A different nation spends 100 million on infra to gain 10k strength.

The tech multiplier changes so my 100 mil of tech now only gains me 2.5k strength, but the other dude who spent 100 mil on infra doesn't lose a single point of NS.

My rank drops, his goes up(due to other techers dropping).

I just got screwed because of a perfectly legal gameplay strategy, while he gains from it.

Fair or not, it still pisses me off I'm being punished for doing nothing wrong.

You keep missing the point, so I will keep repeating it until you do... or my fingers fall off... although I have a feeling my fingers will fall off before you actually get it.

But what did NS do for you? NOTHING. NS was an arbitrary number that has NO MEANING in the game... zip, zero, nada, none. So your artificial boosting of a pointless number got nerfed... boo hoo, it doesn't change anything about your nation.

[King Gerry]

Are you kidding me? I just lost 14k NS and I'm not some tech whore.

[diskord]

Are you kidding me? I just lost 14k NS and I'm not some tech whore.

Nope... just means you had about 930 tech.

See, I R GOOD WIT MATH!

[Masta]

You keep missing the point, so I will keep repeating it until you do... or my fingers fall off... although I have a feeling my fingers will fall off before you actually get it.

But what did NS do for you? NOTHING. NS was an arbitrary number that has NO MEANING in the game... zip, zero, nada, none. So your artificial boosting of a pointless number got nerfed... boo hoo, it doesn't change anything about your nation.

Are you retarded, read my damn post. My rank has dropped because of this.

My rank drops, his goes up(due to other techers dropping).

How does that not affect my nation?

[Brother Kane]

Are you retarded, read my damn post. My rank has dropped because of this.

How does that not affect my nation?

How does your rank change your nation? If you dropped from nuclear to non-nuclear, that can be a minor inconvenience, but has your nation itself changed?

[Will Y Wonka]

this isn't a war game. it's a political simulator

And war is not political simulation?

[diskord]

Are you retarded, read my damn post. My rank has dropped because of this.

How does that not affect my nation?

Again I ask.

WHAT DOES RANK DO FOR YOU?

Unless you dropped out of nuke buying range... THIS UPDATE HAD NO EFFECTIVE CHANGE TO YOUR NATION.

Rank is a meaningless number that apparently you had your e-penis tied to, so when it got chopped by 75% your virtual penis got chopped by 75%. If you stopped looking down your pants and actually looked at the world around you, you would realize nothing has changed but the size of your e-peen, which no one cares about anyway.

[thomas20]

People who were just yesterday a few K NS lower than me are now above me, I've wasted 100's of millions on tech that is now worth 75% less for what I bought it to do(boost NS). I'm currently 500+ rankings back from where I was yesterday.

Will we be refunded the millions we spent on tech for the express purpose of boosting NS?

No we won't. So many of us have wasted 100's of millions of dollars that could have spent on infra instead because we chose to use a perfectly legal strategy in the game.

Example(I know the numbers don't add, it's an example not an equation):

I spend 100 million on tech to gain 10k strength.

A different nation spends 100 million on infra to gain 10k strength.

The tech multiplier changes so my 100 mil of tech now only gains me 2.5k strength, but the other dude who spent 100 mil on infra doesn't lose a single point of NS.

My rank drops, his goes up(due to other techers dropping).

I just got screwed because of a perfectly legal gameplay strategy, while he gains from it.

Fair or not, it still pisses me off I'm being punished for doing nothing wrong.

You didn't get screwed. Does your nation make any less money (disregarding radiation)? Will your nation perform worse in a war now? Did this change only affect your nation or every nation?

It seems those who lost the most NS from the change are complaining the least...

[Veritas]

What you don't get is there is no tech heavy growth there is just growth. Nations that chose to invest their time doing tech deals gained growth from tech and infrastructure nations that didn't spend the time gained their growth through just infrastructure. Now that tech has been nerfed growth from tech has been drastcially cut and nations that didn't chose to do tech deals now get the same bragging rights as as those who worked to increase their ns. If we were really going to be accurate we should remove all ns bonus from military because military means nothing to large nations. I could buy max plans max tanks max soldiers and max cms with not even 1/2 of my daily income after bills so therefore why don't we remove all ns values to military, tech over 300, and nearly all from land that would make ns an even more accurate. Heck why don't we remove the entire idea of nation strength from the game because it's pretty obvious that the only thing that matters in war is infrastructure. This update really put as at middle ground, now admin should either 1) put things back the way they were and let nations compete for ns rankings knowing that it's not actually a represantion of war strength or 2) completely remove the idea of nation strength from the game relying completely on infrastructure levels to determine battle ranges. Because as it stands there is no point in having a nation strength lvl.

-Veritas

P.S. Sorry if this seems scattered i'm just kinda typing things and i think them.

Edited November 1, 2007 by Veritas

[diskord]

You didn't get screwed. Does your nation make any less money (disregarding radiation)? Will your nation perform worse in a war now? Did this change only affect your nation or every nation?

It seems those who lost the most NS from the change are complaining the least...

Hrm... one could almost draw corollary between NS and IQ... but I won't go there

[Daedalus27]

Tech still has value. If you have excessive tech, then sell it and invest it where you like. The only thing that changed was the formula. The millions invested in the tech didn't disappear, they are merely in a resource that to you has less value than it did. Personally, I don't view the situation as have changing much at all.

This is a market correction. 12 million in tech in the artificially lower market due to tech trading was much more important to nation strength than infrastructure because of the costs. You could get 400 tech for the same cost as 100 infrastructure or less simply because you could buy tech on the open market but not infrastructure. This loophole has been reduced but don't overlook that it will still be far easier to increase strength value via tech (and its cheapness) than it will be via land or infrastructure purchases that have high fixed cost. Those who panic over this change I think need to take a step back and really evaluate their present nation. I think some people are making a rash condemnation of the new formulas without looking at the big picture.

[Will Y Wonka]

Again I ask.

WHAT DOES RANK DO FOR YOU?

Unless you dropped out of nuke buying range... THIS UPDATE HAD NO EFFECTIVE CHANGE TO YOUR NATION.

Rank is a meaningless number that apparently you had your e-penis tied to, so when it got chopped by 75% your virtual penis got chopped by 75%. If you stopped looking down your pants and actually looked at the world around you, you would realize nothing has changed but the size of your e-peen, which no one cares about anyway.

If everyone were equally invested in tech and infa then it would not change anything for anyone. Everyone would have gone down equally. But you do not have to fall out of nuke buying range for this to hurt your nation unjustly. Anyone who invested in tech is hurt while those invested in infa instead become relatively stronger. This happened with no warning. Is this fair play?

[thomas20]

What you don't get is there is no tech heavy growth there is just growth. Nations that chose to invest their time doing tech deals gained growth from tech and infrastructure nations that didn't spend the time gained their growth through just infrastructure. Now that tech has been nerfed growth from tech has been drastcially cut and nations that didn't chose to do tech deals now get the same bragging rights as as those who worked to increase their ns. If we were really going to be accurate we should remove all ns bonus from military because military means nothing to large nations. I could buy max plans max tanks max soldiers and max cms with not even 1/2 of my daily income after bills so therefore why don't we remove all ns values to military, tech over 300, and nearly all from land that would make ns an even more accurate. Heck why don't we remove the entire idea of nation strength from the game because it's pretty obvious that the only thing that matters in war is infrastructure. This update really put as at middle ground, now admin should either 1) put things back the way they were and let nations compete for ns rankings knowing that it's not actually a represantion of war strength or 2) completely remove the idea of nation strength from the game relying completely on infrastructure levels to determine battle ranges. Because as it stands there is no point in having a nation strength lvl.

-Veritas

P.S. Sorry if this seems scattered i'm just kinda typing things and i think them.

I understand that. Believe me there was no one more vocal than me in ridiculing nations who bought boatloads of useless tech. They are reaping what they sowed.

I am greatly in favor of further changes to the strength formula and would gladly help if asked to do so. Fortunately for most of you I won't be asked to do so because it would go even further than this. Then again you would get those three extra zeroes at the end.

[Brother Kane]

If everyone were equally invested in tech and infa then it would not change anything for anyone. Everyone would have gone down equally. But you do not have to fall out of nuke buying range for this to hurt your nation unjustly. Anyone who invested in tech is hurt while those invested in infa instead become relatively stronger. This happened with no warning. Is this fair play?

They technically have a better advantage (or less disadvantage) now due to the fact that nations with high infrastructure are now out of range of them. If a tech heavy nation and an infra heavy nation go at it, (depending on the range between the two infrastructures) the tech heavy one could be screwed over. If one person has 3000 infrastructure more than another, but the tech heavy guy has equal or greater nation strength then the war wouldn't go so well for the tech guy. Now that this update has occured the tech guy is far under range of the infrastructure guy, thus his wars become easier.

[dejarue]

I love how everyone is all maddy-waddy because their statistics dropped a little bit. Personally I hope this prunes a few of you who only stick around to tech whore to get as much NS as you possibly can through incessant tech deals rather than proper growth or via tech raiding.

I'll be damned. I agree with Doitzel.

I feel confused and light-headed.

I spend 100 million on tech to gain 10k strength.

A different nation spends 100 million on infra to gain 10k strength.

Uh yeah... that's wrong. You'd spend a ridiculously larger amount of money gaining strength from infrastructure than if you did it from tech. A 10k strength boost from infrastructure requires in excess of 3 thousand infrastructure. Vs 500 tech. Getting the same strength from infrastructure (which is real strength as opposed to imaginary irrelevant strength) costs about twice as much.

[idriveavw]

If everyone were equally invested in tech and infa then it would not change anything for anyone. Everyone would have gone down equally. But you do not have to fall out of nuke buying range for this to hurt your nation unjustly. Anyone who invested in tech is hurt while those invested in infa instead become relatively stronger. This happened with no warning. Is this fair play?

relatively stronger?! have you read any of the posts in the last few pages made by me, diskord, doitzel or any one of the other 10 people trying to make this simple enough for you lot to comprehend?

your strength has not changed AT ALL. just the number that represents your strength WHICH WAS COMPLETELY ARBITRARY TO BEGIN WITH!

[Doitzel]

I'll be damned. I agree with Doitzel.

It happens to the best of us.

[King Gerry]

Nope... just means you had about 930 tech.

See, I R GOOD WIT MATH!

Why I am pissed is because I am now out of nuke range because of this and I think I've done one tech deal to get 50 tech the entire time I've had my nation. The rest has come courtesy of Donations, Legion, GATO, ASC, NAAC, LUE, Rogues, FAN, ONOS, VE etc etc. I can only imagine how the NS of someone like Garmlins has dropped.

Edited November 1, 2007 by King Gerry

[Urmom]

So I'm supposed to just continue on not doing anything, not growing, not getting any better, cause I got screwed by a perfectly legal game function? I can't grow by infra, or I can extremely slowly, to the point where I may as well just shove a gun down my imaginary ruler's throat and pull the trigger. Games are about winning and having fun, neither of which are possible for me now.

I put $100+ dollars into this game just to be screwed. If I wanted to pay to get screwed I'd visit a damn hooker, it would have been cheaper and more fun.

Explain how exactly you got "screwed". If anything, you gained from the increased reduction on infra upkeep.

No, our strategies didn't 'change', changes can be made to a startegy without too much trouble, but they were just completely obliterated and now we're completely screwed.

Essentially our nations are now worth 75% less than they were yesterday. Is it so hard to understand why we whine about this?

Could you also explain how our nations are 75% less? I'm still having trouble understanding why you (and others) are whining about this. Something better than "I like to look at my NS value even though it isn't really important."

I can understand the nuke situation although the limit was increasing far to fast due to the tech whores. My rank actually went up too.

Edited November 1, 2007 by Urmom(U)

[diskord]

Why I am pissed is because I am now out of nuke range because of this and I think I've done one tech deal to get 50 tech the entire time I've had my nation. The rest has come courtesy of Donations, Legion, GATO, ASC, NAAC, LUE, Rogues, FAN, ONOS, VE etc etc. I can only imagine how the NS of someone like Garmlins has dropped.

And yet if you read the thread... the Gramlins along with most other "high NS nations that understand why this was done" are actually all in FAVOR of this.

Hell, Admin even said that when everyone started complaining he was going to direct them to complain to (DAC)Synyzyg.... and I believe he is the head of Gramlins who pushed for this change

[idriveavw]

Why I am pissed is because I am now out of nuke range because of this and I think I've done one tech deal to get 50 tech the entire time I've had my nation. The rest has come courtesy of Donations, Legion, GATO, ASC, NAAC, LUE, Rogues, FAN, ONOS, VE etc etc. I can only imagine how the NS of someone like Garmlins has dropped.

yet most, if not all, of us welcome the change. fancy that...