Woman of your word

[Salmia]

I have to agree with what has been echoed.. what has been dragged up is meta drama that is something that is internal. An internal spite argument that only OBR people will understand should be brought up only to OBR. Splashing it across OWF changes nothing. It is legalese that will only make sense to those who are ex OBR and in OBR right now.

You can try to paint how you view it but if OBR doesn't see it the same way, then too bad. It is not your choice to interpret her words the way you have. OBR is the alliance she belongs to and you're no longer in. You can't force them to make actions on her when you're basically betraying them by posting this out in open. By bringing your issues, you basically lose any concerns you could ever have brought to OBR. They're not going to do what an outsider orders them to.

Maybe you're upset she is calling you a liar, maybe you have issues with her, but this isn't going to solve anything. They don't have to answer to you. The Writ has long been canceled and OBR has changed with the Karma War. This gets you nothing except painting you as a spite filled person who comes back only to drag up issues no one cares about. It would only matter to OBR and they've moved on.

They're being smart by not replying because in all honesty, in this world, if OBR had attempted to use the Writ with the hidden "death cookie" then signatories would've ignored it. There is no way that they would've allowed OBR to pull something over them like that and it would've destroyed their reputation if they did attempt to use it that way. So either way, I see no purpose in this other than dragging up old issues. What is the point in returning just to stir up drama that no one pays attention to these days? That is old and trying to make it something to care about these days is laughable.

[Jacques Cousteau]

I have to agree with what has been echoed.. what has been dragged up is meta drama that is something that is internal. An internal spite argument that only OBR people will understand should be brought up only to OBR. Splashing it across OWF changes nothing. It is legalese that will only make sense to those who are ex OBR and in OBR right now.

You can try to paint how you view it but if OBR doesn't see it the same way, then too bad. It is not your choice to interpret her words the way you have. OBR is the alliance she belongs to and you're no longer in. You can't force them to make actions on her when you're basically betraying them by posting this out in open. By bringing your issues, you basically lose any concerns you could ever have brought to OBR. They're not going to do what an outsider orders them to.

Maybe you're upset she is calling you a liar, maybe you have issues with her, but this isn't going to solve anything. They don't have to answer to you. The Writ has long been canceled and OBR has changed with the Karma War. This gets you nothing except painting you as a spite filled person who comes back only to drag up issues no one cares about. It would only matter to OBR and they've moved on.

They're being smart by not replying because in all honesty, in this world, if OBR had attempted to use the Writ with the hidden "death cookie" then signatories would've ignored it. There is no way that they would've allowed OBR to pull something over them like that and it would've destroyed their reputation if they did attempt to use it that way. So either way, I see no purpose in this other than dragging up old issues. What is the point in returning just to stir up drama that no one pays attention to these days? That is old and trying to make it something to care about these days is laughable.

The OBR can't disown Knight I. Sir Experimentum is Knight I for a reason.

To you, this may be petty nonsense, but if the Order still functions the way it was established to function, such a show of malice from Dame Hime Themis would not and should not be ignored.

[Experimentum]

They're being smart by not replying because in all honesty, in this world, if OBR had attempted to use the Writ with the hidden "death cookie" then signatories would've ignored it. There is no way that they would've allowed OBR to pull something over them like that and it would've destroyed their reputation if they did attempt to use it that way. So either way, I see no purpose in this other than dragging up old issues. What is the point in returning just to stir up drama that no one pays attention to these days? That is old and trying to make it something to care about these days is laughable.

Greetings Salmia,

Its nice to meet you.

Dame Themis made a pledge to you all that was irrespective of time:

What ever cute machinactions he may have felt were written into the Writ, I reject any such nefarious intent. I pledge that if in fact there ever was or currently is then I will find myself on the other side of a conflict with the Order.

If her original issue of that pledge on February 28th cannot be considered current (I have a tendency to agree with you on that point, Salmia) then her reissue of it a mere three days ago certainly wakes the thing up again.

Remember, I'd let it go the first time. Her bringing it up again (as well as accusing me of dishonesty once more) was simply too much.

Salmia, I also agree with you that it's entirely and solely within OBR's purview to discipline or not discipline Themis. If they want someone in their ranks who cannot be trusted to honor their pledges that's their business. However, at the very least, she owes me an apology for repeatedly calling me a liar and all of you an apology for not honoring her promise to you.

(OOC: this has bad breakup written all over it)

OOC: Dame Themis is a 50ish man in RL and I'm not gay. End of story.

[kevinkeegan]

This thread gives me that same feeling I get when I get a crossed line and hear two other people taking about things I really don't know anything about.

I used to get crossed lines and listen to two old women speak in a far-eastern language on my phone.

[KaitlinK]

Seriously, OBR, just stop doing this. You're making yourselves look really bad.

Actually its not OBR... I believe this is a former member attempting to smear his former alliance by trying to embarass a former alliancemate.

Hime you are an amazing player and have handled yourself with both style and grace. We wish you all the best in this unfortunate drama.

[Delta1212]

Previous jabs in the same post excluded I'm sure.

OK, won't trade jabs with you.. starting.... NOW!

I don't trade jabs. I hand them out freely.

[Bumpy]

Pathetic.

Every word of every text based electronic communication with anyone by any medium in any way related to CN in the last three years routinely logged, stored, cataloged, cross referenced, indexed, correlated, extrapolated, interpreted, spun, skewed, and spread to advance whatever agenda served to satisfy the unbounded ambitions of the erstwhile Sir.

Were the same diligence applied to business he would, no doubt, be a millionaire several times over.

There HAVE been brief interludes of relative sanity during which his own recognition of his obsessive addiction to CN has caused him to self delete, each time swearing never to return and each time re-creating the same nation with the same president.

Since the days of The Entente, the former knight has sought to cultivate "OOC" relationships with the best and brightest, and I'm fairly certain that the same best and brightest have re-evaluated the level of trust to be afforded the poor boy.

The sad simple fact is, that thanks to his own rather public psychological derangement, nobody is likely to actually trust him again.

Also, Hello

Edited July 3, 2009 by Bumpy

[Jacques Cousteau]

Pathetic.

Every word of every text based electronic communication with anyone by any medium in any way related to CN in the last three years routinely logged, stored, cataloged, cross referenced, indexed, correlated, extrapolated, interpreted, spun, skewed, and spread to advance whatever agenda served to satisfy the unbounded ambitions of the erstwhile Sir.

Were the same diligence applied to business he would, no doubt, be a millionaire several times over.

There HAVE been brief interludes of relative sanity during which his own recognition of his obsessive addiction to CN has caused him to self delete, each time swearing never to return and each time re-creating the same nation with the same president.

Since the days of The Entente, the former knight has sought to cultivate "OOC" relationships with the best and brightest, and I'm fairly certain that the same best and brightest have re-evaluated the level of trust to be afforded the poor boy.

The sad simple fact is, that thanks to his own rather public psychological derangement, nobody is likely to actually trust him again.

Also, Hello

It would appear that the damage crew has arrived.

I trust "the erstwhile sir".

[Caesius]

I reckon there'd be a lot less drama goin' on if y'all in OBR talked like normal folks. Yanno, instead of tryin' to speak in overcomplicated legalese.

[Bumpy]

It would appear that the damage crew has arrived.

I trust "the erstwhile sir".

I SAID.. "the best and brightest".

Ah monsieur strapp. I wish you luck with that. I gather that as Ex's newest attack dog your roll is to stand up to defend the endless revisions and ramblings of an agent provocateur with such a distorted view of history?

You see, there was once a time when I too trusted him.

As to damage control? no damage to me; I left the OBR when the internecine strife engendered by a sad man with no actual life set about the willful destruction of the OBR because his GF dumped him. Poor boy simply lost it, went 'round the bend' and now seeks to salvage SOME sense of self worth in the virtual world to which he has sacrificed any hope of an actual life.

These pointless postings serve no purpose but to elicit a response, ANY response, from those who once called him friend.

Threads, misinformation, spin, skew and revision after revision from Ex are the ONLY reason I retain a nation at all; he's kinda like a train wreck, fascinating in much the same way as the disfigured denizens of a sideshow draw the eye. You know how it goes... mom says "don't stare at the crippled kids, it's not polite"

BTW, any nation small enough to actually smite the scumbag will have earned the rewards which will be forthcoming.

Edited July 3, 2009 by Bumpy

[Jacques Cousteau]

Ah monsieur strapp. I wish you luck with that. I gather that as Ex's newest attack dog your roll is to stand up to defend the endless revisions and ramblings of an agent provocateur with such a distorted view of history?

You see, there was once a time when I too trusted him.

As to damage control? no damage to me; I left the OBR when the internecine strife engendered by a sad man with no actual life set about the willful destruction of the OBR because his GF dumped him. Poor boy simply lost it, went 'round the bend' and now seeks to salvage SOME sense of self worth in the virtual world to which he has sacrificed any hope of an actual life.

These pointless postings serve no purpose but to elicit a response, ANY response, from those who once called him friend.

Threads, misinformation, spin, skew and revision after revision from Ex are the ONLY reason I retain a nation at all; he's kinda like a train wreck, fascinating in much the same way as the disfigured denizens of a sideshow draw the eye. You know how it goes... mom says "don't stare at the crippled kids, it's not polite"

BTW, any nation small enough to actually smite the scumbag will have earned the rewards which will be forthcoming.

I serve no one, save myself.

Nothing has been spun, nor skewed by he whom you must refer to as "the erstwhile sir". He has simply presented certain facts to the public at large.

It would appear that the only bitter and scarred individual in the vicinity would be you.

[Bumpy]

I serve no one, save myself.

Nothing has been spun, nor skewed by he whom you must refer to as "the erstwhile sir". He has simply presented certain facts to the public at large.

It would appear that the only bitter and scarred individual in the vicinity would be you.

Awwww, Get a clue, please?

Treacherous scumbags get exactly what they deserve, as do misguided fools who obviously have no idea what they stand to support.

Check your facts; you obviously know nothing except what he and Freelancer tell you.

[Jacques Cousteau]

Awwww, Get a clue, please?

Treacherous scumbags get exactly what they deserve, as do misguided fools who obviously have no idea what they stand to support.

Check your facts; you obviously know nothing except what he and Freelancer tell you.

Cute.

You are secure enough to make statement after statement regarding my knowledge of the situation and my relationships with other members of this fine community yet when you get right down to it, you know nothing about me.

[Heyman]

I reckon there'd be a lot less drama goin' on if y'all in OBR talked like normal folks. Yanno, instead of tryin' to speak in overcomplicated legalese.

The diction that OBR uses is pretty much a part of their identity at this point. To change that would be a major upheaval.

[Bumpy]

Cute.

You are secure enough to make statement after statement regarding my knowledge of the situation and my relationships with other members of this fine community yet when you get right down to it, you know nothing about me.

I've little interest, actually; you're clearly not averse to spouting off about things that do not concern you, even obliquely.. you leap to defend a demonstrated traitor.. and pretend to knowledge you could not possibly posses. Why, pray tell, would I be remotely interested in knowing any more?

Clearly, your sources are suspect at best and deliberately malignant at worst; in either case, YOU have yet to inspire more than minor annoyance; The erstwhile Knight on the other hand has earned and is deserving of my full attention.

Wishing you a wonderful day and sincerely hoping that you aren't as easily led as you seem to be.

[Jacques Cousteau]

I've little interest, actually; you're clearly not averse to spouting off about things that do not concern you, even obliquely.. you leap to defend a demonstrated traitor.. and pretend to knowledge you could not possibly posses. Why, pray tell, would I be remotely interested in knowing any more?

Clearly, your sources are suspect at best and deliberately malignant at worst; in either case, YOU have yet to inspire more than minor annoyance; The erstwhile Knight on the other hand has earned and is deserving of my full attention.

Wishing you a wonderful day and sincerely hoping that you aren't as easily led as you seem to be.

You obviously feel terribly comfortable throwing derisive comments the direction of just about anyone who crosses your path. It really is amazing how anyone could even fathom trusting someone who you, ever the malcontent, makes a point of alienating and vilifying.

I wish not to be an annoyance, but i have grown to love your abuse, from your slanders to your slights, the whole package is just lovely.

[Caesius]

The diction that OBR uses is pretty much a part of their identity at this point. To change that would be a major upheaval.

Yeah, but sometimes ya gotta wonder if holdin' their noses up high is somethin' of an Olympic sport over there.

But yanno, I wonder what it'd look like if some OBR and FAN got themselves in the same room.

And no, I don't actually talk like this, but I'm just tryin' to balance out the ridiculous speech y'all have got goin' in this thread.

[Freelancer]

Awwww, Get a clue, please?

Treacherous scumbags get exactly what they deserve, as do misguided fools who obviously have no idea what they stand to support.

Check your facts; you obviously know nothing except what he and Freelancer tell you.

*Freelancer winks at Sir Bumpy*

How in blue blaze's did I get your attention? As for Jacque, I haven't had a real conversation with him in months, so any opinion that his keyboard spews is his own.

I do find it fascinating that you choose this thread to come say hello, one might ask why? Since I'm 99.9 percent sure I already know the answer, I'll share it.

What we have here ghouls and goblins is a little slight of hand, its all smoke and mirrors, an overt attempt to possibly fuel someones rage and get this thread locked, hidden and buried with the hopes of possible deletion.

Why you ask, like any Elite or Secret organization that have emerged in this world or others there is but one constant they all fear, The Skeletons in the closest being released, what were all witnessing is damage control, with the hopes that.

Every word of every text based electronic communication with anyone by any medium in any way related to CN in the last three years routinely logged, stored, cataloged, cross referenced, indexed, correlated, extrapolated doesn't find it's way into the wrong hands, or has it ?

I knew one day you and I would cross paths, I pictured it a little differently, however this will suffice for now .

I leave you with these words of wisdom Sir. " Know thy opponent"

Edited July 3, 2009 by Freelancer

[Quercus]

*Freelancer takes a big whiff *

Ex, can you smell it ? I believe that would be the aroma of fear in the air.

To members of The OBR, this is one of those time's where silence isn't golden, everyone's honor is being called into question here, fear none I dusted off my Webster's dictionary and await eagerly for an official response.

The popcorn is appropriate in this case, because at the moment you are little better than a vulture circling overhead in search of carrion. I hate to disappoint you, but there is no meal here and this topic can barely be called entertainment.

You haven't received an official response because this really doesn't have anything to do with the current Order of the Black Rose. Your calling everyone's honor into question doesn't work either because nearly all in the Order are beyond reproach in this matter.

All of the current Knights came after the Writ de Credo and it's secret "death cookie" clause. Experimentum himself will vouch that only the old Knight Admins and the Queen had access to the forum he quoted in his exposé. The rest of us have been left with a mess that is not of our own making.

Regardless of what the Knight or Dame said in the past, the crux of this topic is based upon a treaty that no longer exists. The OBR decided that it couldn't be salvaged because of it's inherent flaws and canceled it with the promise that we would write a better NAP in plain language that everyone could read and understand. From there it is up to the rest of the alliances in this world to decide if the Order can be trusted as a treaty partner. The Greenland Republic seems to have no major problems with our relationship so I suspect that other alliances will be willing to seek a friendship with us and perhaps even risk a written association.

All of this drama stems from a very personal conflict that the OBR is only tangential to at best. Experimentum feels compelled by his sense of honor to launch arguments against acts and deeds that he disagrees with. By the same token, Bumpy feels compelled by his sense of honor to counter those arguments and fight against the things he disagrees with. Both have been friends to each other and me in the past, yet each of us disagree with the others currently and some of us are no longer on speaking terms with the other two.

The tragedy here is not that Hime Themis is Dame of the Order with a penchant for making verbose and urbane posts, nor is it that the OBR once tried to use legalistic language to perpetrate a joke for some sense of smug self satisfaction. It is that a game has managed to drive a wedge between people who were once good friends.

[OOC]My respect and friendship continues to go out to both Ex and Bumpy (even if we are no longer talking). I guess that there is too much hurt done already for things to go back to the way that they were before. But I truly wish that you could at least let the past go and move forward to what will hopefully be a better future.

Regards,

Jim[/OOC]

[Das Girl]

*Experimentum bows to one knee before the esteemed Das Girl

*Experimentum risks being so presumptuous as to offer a hug

It is truly a pleasure to see you, fair lady. I've sincerely missed you and would be happy to have you commenting here even if it were to flay me. As fellow citizens from the very earliest days of Digiterra, we've seen the world change before ours eyes in ways we would never have imagined yet, ironically, those of us that have been here from the start have only grown closer. Heck, Arctic/Quercus and I actually talk to Ivan on occasion in a mutually respectful manner. Who ever would've thought that could happen?

Again, welcome, fair Das Girl.

Of course, a hug would be wonderful from one old-timer to another. There is a certain bond between those who have survived all odds, I fully agree. It is a pleasure to see you as well, you really should come out and visit much more often.

I do still stand firm that I have only seen the utmost integrity in all of the pieces you have written in regards to Digiterra. The truth seems quite apparent and my lenses certainly are not rose-colored.

[Bumpy]

The popcorn is appropriate in this case, because at the moment you are little better than a vulture circling overhead in search of carrion. I hate to disappoint you, but there is no meal here and this topic can barely be called entertainment.

You haven't received an official response because this really doesn't have anything to do with the current Order of the Black Rose. Your calling everyone's honor into question doesn't work either because nearly all in the Order are beyond reproach in this matter.

All of the current Knights came after the Writ de Credo and it's secret "death cookie" clause. Experimentum himself will vouch that only the old Knight Admins and the Queen had access to the forum he quoted in his exposé. The rest of us have been left with a mess that is not of our own making.

Regardless of what the Knight or Dame said in the past, the crux of this topic is based upon a treaty that no longer exists. The OBR decided that it couldn't be salvaged because of it's inherent flaws and canceled it with the promise that we would write a better NAP in plain language that everyone could read and understand. From there it is up to the rest of the alliances in this world to decide if the Order can be trusted as a treaty partner. The Greenland Republic seems to have no major problems with our relationship so I suspect that other alliances will be willing to seek a friendship with us and perhaps even risk a written association.

All of this drama stems from a very personal conflict that the OBR is only tangential to at best. Experimentum feels compelled by his sense of honor to launch arguments against acts and deeds that he disagrees with. By the same token, Bumpy feels compelled by his sense of honor to counter those arguments and fight against the things he disagrees with. Both have been friends to each other and me in the past, yet each of us disagree with the others currently and some of us are no longer on speaking terms with the other two.

The tragedy here is not that Hime Themis is Dame of the Order with a penchant for making verbose and urbane posts, nor is it that the OBR once tried to use legalistic language to perpetrate a joke for some sense of smug self satisfaction. It is that a game has managed to drive a wedge between people who were once good friends.

[OOC]My respect and friendship continues to go out to both Ex and Bumpy (even if we are no longer talking). I guess that there is too much hurt done already for things to go back to the way that they were before. But I truly wish that you could at least let the past go and move forward to what will hopefully be a better future.

Regards,

Jim[/OOC]

**Smiles and waves.

Hi Jim, iirc you both have my number and both have declined to make use of that information.

In point of fact that information is (or was) available to any with Round Table access.

I find it telling that only Sir Winslow, Dame Themis, and a few curious and/or nervous enquirers from BW & RoTR have made the minimal effort to ask "wtf?" when I deleted myself from the OBR boards and changed AA.

Still, I do understand; it's been abundantly clear for a long while that I am something of an anachronism among anachronisms and, for well or ill, the essential character of the OBR has evolved; it is long since past time I left that process alone.

Like the GC from which it grew, the OBR will remain a source of pleasant reminiscence largely unsullied by unpleasantness with the notable exception of Experimentian machinations and treachery.

I'm not at all surprised that the tl:dr crowd continues to drink the kool aid, but I'm more than a tad disappointed to see people whose intellect I have come to respect stand to defend the indefensible.

Ah well, you guys will do fine and I sincerely wish you well, especially with Dame Themis and Sir Winslow carrying on in the finer traditions of The Order.

**grins @ Freelancer.

Heavens to Mergatroid! I know my opponent far better than you may think; I've know the man for years and spent what seems in retrospect to have been hundreds of hours on the telephone (oops! no logs. ) discussing alliances, individuals, strategies, tactics etc. I feel reasonably confident that I've come to know the man behind the legend of Ex well enough to smile as I ask him if he sincerely knows in his heart that it is a good day to die.

While I must confess that HAD I hoped to draw you into the discussion and ascertain your reasons for joining the Experimentian conga line I hardly consider you an opponent.

Regardless, I believe I shall extend you the courtesy of NOT publicly disclosing what he told me about you.

Edited July 4, 2009 by Bumpy