The Pre-emptive Defensive War!

[Fenrir69]

Lol what a pathetically weak attempt at creating a CB.

Thank you Blacky for saying more then I could ever have said myself

[Fenrir69]

Those conversation was with dankfire who is NOT a MHA gov member and only a military leader...

That person was hell bent on hitting fark and was is on his final warning before being kicked from the alliance.

I wish people would actually CHECK IN with a ME about these facts...

But the war already began so it is what it is....

Thaisport

I'm just a military leader >.> People should really check in with Thaisport about facts >.<

As for hell bent on hitting fark, i think thats been grossly exaggerated...

#1) hell bent on personal survival? sure

#2) hell bent on survival of allies? of course

#3) hell bent on hitting fark? only if they have a problem with #1 and #2

[Arcane]

I'm just a military leader >.> People should really check in with Thaisport about facts >.<

I'm one of the military leaders within Fark for the round. I'm not gov--just military. But you can be damn sure that if I'm in an IRC conversation discussing going to war and saying "I'm gonna roll another alliance" that what I'm saying is likely to happen. To say that the responsibility was ours to check with Thai is asinine. If you can't control the people who are supposed to be your military leaders, you shouldn't have those people representing you and getting you into situations like what we have at present. Just my 2 cents.

[Alpha One]

Couple of corrections here.

Yes, you guys were still planning on attacking The 4077th. In fact, there are at least three Swat nations currently attacking our members. I guess they felt annoyed that they wouldn't be getting their revenge

2. We were M*A*S*H last round and I know you like thinking formal announcements on the forums are the only way to have allies, but it's not. We have many allies, including Blackwater and Lafayette Escadrille. Either way, I think you knew who we were and were only out for revenge.

3. We're not a random alliance and I'm not sure you're fooling anybody with that statement. We were M*A*S*H last round and it was pretty obvious who we were (just check 4077 in google ) Way to carry over a grudge into the next round :lol:

good luck with the war. If you happen to get peace we'll be ready when this one is over.

first things first. SWAT has many ghosts. We like to keep them around as meat shields for our real members. Those were likely the nations that attacked 4077. Not actual SWAT members.

Secondly, we were planning to attack you, yes. Your high nuke count, average NS, and proven military record from M*A*S*H last round seemed to be a great challenge for us. After demolishing UN two days into the round, we wanted to step up our game and take on some of TE's best. However, As our sizes became less and less even, we decided we would be better off taking on a larger alliance. So...in the end, we weren't exactly planning to hit you. We didn't actually finalize what our real target would be, and we didn't have a definite date set for the attack either due to the fact that our SE parent alliance has had some major changes which required our attention. We do understand your preemptive strike though. SWAT would have done the same thing.

Also, to Londo. We have been approached by several alliances for treaties. SWAT, however, maintains a strict "no politics" policy which forbids us from signing MDP's and being dragged into the characteristically bull-crap TE politics that we see so often. Our goal is to blow stuff up. We find a target, we kill a target. Seeing as how treaties can interfere with our simple lifestyle of just getting into awesome 1 on 1 wars, we will never sign anything above an NAP to keep counters off of our backs. That was the reason the alliance between CE and SWAT was turned down. No hard feelings.

Anyway, good job with the blitz. We now have the challenge we've been looking for.

Edited March 13, 2009 by Alpha One

[i hate cyber nations]

first things first. SWAT has many ghosts. We like to keep them around as meat shields for our real members. Those were likely the nations that attacked 4077. Not actual SWAT members.

Secondly, we were planning to attack you, yes. Your high nuke count, average NS, and proven military record from M*A*S*H last round seemed to be a great challenge for us. After demolishing UN two days into the round, we wanted to step up our game and take on some of TE's best. However, As our sizes became less and less even, we decided we would be better off taking on a larger alliance. So...in the end, we weren't exactly planning to hit you. We didn't actually finalize what our real target would be, and we didn't have a definite date set for the attack either due to the fact that our SE parent alliance has had some major changes which required our attention. We do understand your preemptive strike though. SWAT would have done the same thing.

Also, to Londo. We have been approached by several alliances for treaties. SWAT, however, maintains a strict "no politics" policy which forbids us from signing MDP's and being dragged into the characteristically bull-crap TE politics that we see so often. Our goal is to blow stuff up. We find a target, we kill a target. Seeing as how treaties can interfere with our simple lifestyle of just getting into awesome 1 on 1 wars, we will never sign anything above an NAP to keep counters off of our backs. That was the reason the alliance between CE and SWAT was turned down. No hard feelings.

Anyway, good job with the blitz. We now have the challenge we've been looking for.

thanks for the honesty. One thing though is I highly doubt those three nation are ghosting Swat. Striker DCS, Hunter DCS, and Solace19k have been around for more than one round and don't seem like they would.

and even if you felt the attack on us would have been a random one, there is definitely a sentiment of "let's get revenge" going around. This is a new round and we were happy letting things go that happened in the past between us and some of your members. Hard to do that now but we'll see.

[George the Great]

thanks for the honesty. One thing though is I highly doubt those three nation are ghosting Swat. Striker DCS, Hunter DCS, and Solace19k have been around for more than one round and don't seem like they would.

and even if you felt the attack on us would have been a random one, there is definitely a sentiment of "let's get revenge" going around. This is a new round and we were happy letting things go that happened in the past between us and some of your members. Hard to do that now but we'll see.

We were attacked by your bloc, we're not allowed to counter against the same bloc? I dun git it. From what I hear, we're not allowed to sanction you guys either. You guys should inform us of the rules of war first next time.

The logs don't seem to leave much doubt really. They don't say "may" or "might", they say "will". And just because an alliance doesn't have an announced treaty in TE doesn't mean that it doesn't have friends. Your expectation of who would back up 4077 shows that you thought 4077 had such friends, and your expectation that MHA would back you up shows that you thought MHA was your friend. Since you seem to have changed your minds, the hit is really unfortunate, but we had no way of knowing this, and it's not like we could have just told you about the plan without blowing opsec all to hell and risking you guys informing the mega alliances.

Seeing as how whoever told you folks that obviously had trust in you, I'm sure you could have just asked if we were still hitting 4077 and we would have answered you. That would have killed slaughtered the all ready lacking CB, though, so I understand why you didn't. Like I said, I'd be far less offended if this were "random" and didn't have a CB. The fact that you guys tried and failed is pretty dumb. Now we'll probably think twice when it comes to informing CE about anything. Like I said, those logs were over a week old, and in a game that lasts for 2 months, that's a substantial amount of time. Kind of like the "SWAT Leader #1" blew opsec all to hell and risked you guys informing the mega alliances.

The thing is, CE approached SWAT early on about an alliance with us Fark, progress was made in talks, etc.... and then you told one of our guys that you were basically putting yourself on the other side of a war. We basically viewed this as you rejecting the alliance proposal and going to the other side. It's not just about SWAT hitting 4077, SWAT was expecting counters to this and had a buddy of its own to help counter. If there weren't preexisting sides for whatever reason, I doubt we would have been able to make this big of a coalition without word of it leaking out to anyone on the other side.

Londo approached George the Great about an alliance with Fark early on. I told you that we aren't big on politics and wouldn't do anything more than a NAP and you were contented with that, as was Fark. No one got back to me at all about it, however, and since I think multi-alliance politics in TE is pretty stupid, I let it go. We weren't expecting counters, we considered that it could happen as they were friends last round. Had CE informed us that 4077 were friends of friends of friends and said that attacking them was ill-advised, then we probably would have listened. The fact of the matter is that a war like this was probably going to happen eventually, although some smaller alliances may have switched sides, and you guys got together and decided you wanted to hit first. That's all well and good, just don't try and make up ridiculous excuses that can't hold any water. A better DoW would have been: This was is inevitable and we'd rather hit first and have a better chance at winning the game. Would that have been so hard to say?

[Alpha One]

thanks for the honesty. One thing though is I highly doubt those three nation are ghosting Swat. Striker DCS, Hunter DCS, and Solace19k have been around for more than one round and don't seem like they would.

and even if you felt the attack on us would have been a random one, there is definitely a sentiment of "let's get revenge" going around. This is a new round and we were happy letting things go that happened in the past between us and some of your members. Hard to do that now but we'll see.

Hey, it seems those three were SWAT nations after all. So....big deal?

Also, perhaps there are some revenge sentiments from a few members seeing as how some of our members were formerly in NAAW last round. However, those who are "in command" do not hold such grudges, and I assure you our original choice of 4077 as a target was not influenced by these members. It as about numbers and finding an even combatant. Simple as that.

Edited March 13, 2009 by Alpha One

[WarriorPwnag]

I think some of the alliances members should betray there allies, and their own alliance, start a massive free for all where you don't know who is with who, and completely utterly destroy everything. (I'm looking for a total number of one million dead!!!)

[dran129]

Hey, it seems those three were SWAT nations after all. So....big deal?

Also, perhaps there are some revenge sentiments from a few members seeing as how some of our members were formerly in NAAW last round. However, those who are "in command" do not hold such grudges, and I assure you our original choice of 4077 as a target was not influenced by these members. It as about numbers and finding an even combatant. Simple as that.

Don't worry, we all know there are rouges in alliances that go against their leaders orders, it is just a bit annoying when people try to play nations off as ghosts when we did a bit of back checking first. No ill will is being held on this side either, we are mainly just keeping our heads low and our ears perked.

We were attacked by your bloc, we're not allowed to counter against the same bloc? I dun git it. From what I hear, we're not allowed to sanction you guys either. You guys should inform us of the rules of war first next time.

You can counter against the bloc, but we were dropping anything from the previous rounds. The 4077th, at least, has a change in alliance name and most nations change their name up by some sort. Feel free to hit/sanction your way through a round, but when that round ends, the round ends. We don't need carry over.

Seeing as how whoever told you folks that obviously had trust in you, I'm sure you could have just asked if we were still hitting 4077 and we would have answered you. That would have killed slaughtered the all ready lacking CB, though, so I understand why you didn't. Like I said, I'd be far less offended if this were "random" and didn't have a CB. The fact that you guys tried and failed is pretty dumb. Now we'll probably think twice when it comes to informing CE about anything. Like I said, those logs were over a week old, and in a game that lasts for 2 months, that's a substantial amount of time. Kind of like the "SWAT Leader #1" blew opsec all to hell and risked you guys informing the mega alliances.

You're admitting that our intel was correct. The fact you called it off and we did not get the intel before our strike is not a good rational to gripe about the CB. You're plans, though they may have changed, got foiled. It is simple as that. When we hear there is a plan to try to take us out, we were not going to sit around and just take the attack. You know if you got intel that you alliance would be attacked in 5 days you would do a preemptive strike as well. If you wouldn't, then you're not playing TE correctly.

[Owned-You]

Yummy.

[KingDingaLing]

Don't worry, we all know there are rouges in alliances that go against their leaders orders, it is just a bit annoying when people try to play nations off as ghosts when we did a bit of back checking first. No ill will is being held on this side either, we are mainly just keeping our heads low and our ears perked.

You can counter against the bloc, but we were dropping anything from the previous rounds. The 4077th, at least, has a change in alliance name and most nations change their name up by some sort. Feel free to hit/sanction your way through a round, but when that round ends, the round ends. We don't need carry over.

You're admitting that our intel was correct. The fact you called it off and we did not get the intel before our strike is not a good rational to gripe about the CB. You're plans, though they may have changed, got foiled. It is simple as that. When we hear there is a plan to try to take us out, we were not going to sit around and just take the attack. You know if you got intel that you alliance would be attacked in 5 days you would do a preemptive strike as well. If you wouldn't, then you're not playing TE correctly.

You didn't do a preemptive strike, your daddy did. We would have gladly welcomed a 1 on 1 with 4077, Which is what your intel pointed out. What is all this previous round talk ? We have said time and time again that you were equal in size when those plans were made is why you were a potential target. You guys seem to be the ones bringing last round into this.

[Alpha One]

Don't worry, we all know there are rouges in alliances that go against their leaders orders, it is just a bit annoying when people try to play nations off as ghosts when we did a bit of back checking first. No ill will is being held on this side either, we are mainly just keeping our heads low and our ears perked.

I did not try to "play off" nations as ghosts. I misread his/her statement thinking he/she said SWAT members raided 4077 prior to your bloc's assault. Knowing that SWAT has a strict raiding policy, I was doubtful that any of our actual members were raiding 4077, when everyone knew full well we were preparing for some sort of war in the near future. Thus, I said that they were probably ghosts. I have since seen the war screen and re-read the post, so I now know that their attacks were merely a retaliation against your Bloc.

I have been nothing but honest regarding SWAT's intentions in this thread. Trying to act like I am spreading misinformation is just plain insulting.

Edited March 13, 2009 by Alpha One

[i hate cyber nations]

We are taking a leave from this thread since this was a DOW by a bloc that we are not in. We are currently helping out the bloc because we have allies in it. Once the war is over we'll see if anything has changed, and I hope it does because grudges just make the game boring and predictable.

[George the Great]

We are taking a leave from this thread since this was a DOW by a bloc that we are not in. We are currently helping out the bloc because we have allies in it. Once the war is over we'll see if anything has changed, and I hope it does because grudges just make the game boring and predictable.

Apparently you guys are the ones holding grudges. We said, time and time again, the only reason we thought of attacking 4077 was because you guys seemed like you knew what you were doing and were close to our strength range/nuke level. Once we moved pretty far away from you guys, we let that idea go.

To the best of my knowledge, 4077 has no allies, so technically, you simply aggressively attacked GDA. Treaties aren't real when no one know about them, friendship is, but not binding treaties.

[KingDingaLing]

We are taking a leave from this thread since this was a DOW by a bloc that we are not in. We are currently helping out the bloc because we have allies in it. Once the war is over we'll see if anything has changed, and I hope it does because grudges just make the game boring and predictable.

If you are attacking with the bloc then this thread pertains to you whether or not you are a signed member in the OP. But it is funny that this bloc was made to protect you and you are claiming not to be a part of it.

Last round all of these guys said giant blocs made it boring...

Last round all of these guys promoted 1 v 1 battles...

Flippie Floppies much ?

And what grudges do you keep speaking of ?

[metal]

Seeing as how whoever told you folks that obviously had trust in you, I'm sure you could have just asked if we were still hitting 4077 and we would have answered you.

I didn't want to come back , but the sheer awesomeness in the above quote has prompted a response.

Do you even read what your typing George? "Yeah its OK to come ask us if we still plan to kill your friends". How does that even make any sense?

Uh.. yes..uh.. Sir's.. I was uh... wondering if uh... you guys were planning on beating up our friends.. cuz uh... I really would appreciate it if that didnt happen uh.. sorry to uh.. bother you sir.

Three possible responses:

#1

Actually we were , however since you asked, we wont now. Have a splendid day!

.... HA.

#2

Nope, faked logs.. never heard of such a thing *whistles*

Pre-emptive attack cover blown.

#3

Yes we were, and we still are, and now we know you know! DIE!

Pre-emptive attack cover blown.

I hope you can see the strategic problem with simply coming to you and asking you. It really comes down to this: Conspire to kill our friends, we wont sit back and watch it happen, not only that we're not gonna double-triple-check with you guys JUST to be sure. Don't conspire to kill our friends - you wont have the current problem at hand. None of this happens if you didn't have the desire to put boots on the 4077. Simple.

[popsumpot]

If you are attacking with the bloc then this thread pertains to you whether or not you are a signed member in the OP. But it is funny that this bloc was made to protect you and you are claiming not to be a part of it.

Last round all of these guys said giant blocs made it boring...

Last round all of these guys promoted 1 v 1 battles...

Flippie Floppies much ?

And what grudges do you keep speaking of ?

Just keep in mind 4077th and CDT has not joined this bloc, and we were the ones arguing against giant blocs and promoting 1v1 battles.

[KingDingaLing]

I didn't want to come back , but the sheer awesomeness in the above quote has prompted a response.

Do you even read what your typing George? "Yeah its OK to come ask us if we still plan to kill your friends". How does that even make any sense?

Three possible responses:

#1

.... HA.

#2

Pre-emptive attack cover blown.

#3

Pre-emptive attack cover blown.

I hope you can see the strategic problem with simply coming to you and asking you. It really comes down to this: Conspire to kill our friends, we wont sit back and watch it happen, not only that we're not gonna double-triple-check with you guys JUST to be sure. Don't conspire to kill our friends - you wont have the current problem at hand. None of this happens if you didn't have the desire to put boots on the 4077. Simple.

Thank god you here !!! I thought you were gone forever

[KingDingaLing]

Just keep in mind 4077th and CDT has not joined this bloc, and we were the ones arguing against giant blocs and promoting 1v1 battles.

If this is true then why did 4077 not step up and just take us one on one then ?? Instead they have 4 other alliances hit Swat. That doesnt sound like promotion of 1v1

[metal]

Thank god you here !!! I thought you were gone forever

Hello friend, how are you?

Definitely less active & it feels glorious. There wont be much to go around, consider this one of those "limited special previews"

[KingDingaLing]

Hello friend, how are you?

Definitely less active & it feels glorious. There wont be much to go around, consider this one of those "limited special previews"

Im good. and yourself ? It will definitely be less fun with you not around.

[LeVentNoir]

This is the weakest casus belli since bush invaded Iraq.

[Owned-You]

This is the weakest casus belli since bush invaded Iraq.

Fine, were bored.

Happy Now?

[Burning Glory]

If you are attacking with the bloc then this thread pertains to you whether or not you are a signed member in the OP. But it is funny that this bloc was made to protect you and you are claiming not to be a part of it.

Last round all of these guys said giant blocs made it boring...

Last round all of these guys promoted 1 v 1 battles...

Flippie Floppies much ?

And what grudges do you keep speaking of ?

Well now, see there in lies the problem.....

Last round you guys held the biggest bloc Judgment and JR....Last round you guys controlled the round because of this said bloc....Last round no one in this said bloc fought a 1 vs 1 war.

Since you are all affiliated from last round, and as shown in the logs you are affiliated this round plus this bloc is known for all jumping in together via a curb stomp. All precausions were taken to ensure this didn't happen this round.

I'm sure 4077th would have taken the fight in a 1 vs 1 if called out, but the logs indicate this was not the intended plan, more of that MHA wanted to take out FARK as SWAT wanted to take out

4077th, with all the others jumping in as they were under the impression that neither had allies. And possibly even a hit on LE, as I'm sure all possible scenarios were thought out.

I like swat, and I'll say this in public...I have no problems with any of you and feel that i have friends there, but i can't sit by and watch you guys join the FAB 3 to hit our friends as TPF suffered from the same fate last round. I would like to think that no one is bringing last round actions into this round, however we are all human and it appears that this might be the case.

I sincerely hope that after this is all over with we can move on in the next round, as I and TPF have put the episode from last round to rest.

Every AA that was hit knows they would have done the same thing, but all wars start with a plot and grows from there....

Please keep in mind this is just a game and have fun, what ever happens in the next few weeks to come, its an honor to fight beside our friends and against them as well.

BG.

[KingDingaLing]

Well now, see there in lies the problem.....

Last round you guys held the biggest bloc Judgment and JR....Last round you guys controlled the round because of this said bloc....Last round no one in this said bloc fought a 1 vs 1 war.

Since you are all affiliated from last round, and as shown in the logs you are affiliated this round plus this bloc is known for all jumping in together via a curb stomp. All precausions were taken to ensure this didn't happen this round.

I'm sure 4077th would have taken the fight in a 1 vs 1 if called out, but the logs indicate this was not the intended plan, more of that MHA wanted to take out FARK as SWAT wanted to take out

4077th, with all the others jumping in as they were under the impression that neither had allies. And possibly even a hit on LE, as I'm sure all possible scenarios were thought out.

I like swat, and I'll say this in public...I have no problems with any of you and feel that i have friends there, but i can't sit by and watch you guys join the FAB 3 to hit our friends as TPF suffered from the same fate last round. I would like to think that no one is bringing last round actions into this round, however we are all human and it appears that this might be the case.

I sincerely hope that after this is all over with we can move on in the next round, as I and TPF have put the episode from last round to rest.

Every AA that was hit knows they would have done the same thing, but all wars start with a plot and grows from there....

Please keep in mind this is just a game and have fun, what ever happens in the next few weeks to come, its an honor to fight beside our friends and against them as well.

BG.

Now your just fabricating..

We had tentative plans to hit 4077 1v1. We asked MHA to watch our backs in case someone jumped in (ie NOT a 1 v 1 fight anymore) We have no plans against Fark or any other alliance. No one spoke of jumping in gang banging etc. We are not affiliated with anyone as your intel shows. So 90% of your statement is something you made up that sounded good in your head.

As for bringing in last round, it is continually the "Inititative" that is bringing up the last round, labeling these alliances as " Judgement " To justify your vindication for last round..

Swat did not exist last round, and the only thing that we have brought from last round is the willingness to do 1 v 1 fights and not join huge blocs. What have you brought from last round ? Fighting the alliances that destroyed you... Making Plenty of Treaties..

Where the bacardi at

quick edit : The statement of us (NAAW as I assume who you are speaking of since you quoted me in your rebuttal) in Judgment reborn is laughable. By that time we had been torn to shambles and MAYBE 5 of us were still around and randomly hitting people most not having anything to do with the war

Edited March 14, 2009 by KingDingaLing