Strategic Weapons of a Non-Nuclear Nature

[Sargun II]

That way you can argue Nukes aren't designed to kill people as it is also made to make it easier to invade. As for in realirty shutting down or destroying is the same as you can't use it anymore.

Except nukes are designed to kill people. EMPs are designed to fry equipment and electronics - some people will be killed, which is a sadness. However, a few people dying because of unsolvable problems compared to hundreds of thousands to millions of people is ridiculous.

[Centurius]

Except nukes are designed to kill people. EMPs are designed to fry equipment and electronics - some people will be killed, which is a sadness. However, a few people dying because of unsolvable problems compared to hundreds of thousands to millions of people is ridiculous.

Again EMP has those effects the difference between conventional weapons and WMD(including EMP) is that a normal bomb can be aimed at Military targets however Biological, Chemical, Nuclear and EMP based weapons aren't controlled so they have to be placed in the same category I'm willing to recognize them but they should count as Nuclear Weapons when looking at how many you can have.

[Sargun II]

Again EMP has those effects the difference between conventional weapons and WMD(including EMP) is that a normal bomb can be aimed at Military targets however Biological, Chemical, Nuclear and EMP based weapons aren't controlled so they have to be placed in the same category I'm willing to recognize them but they should count as Nuclear Weapons when looking at how many you can have.

E-bombs can be aimed at military targets. A small bomb can take out something as small as a TV station and you can gradually make it go high enough to cover around 10 kilometers. Nuclear EMPs are different, as they wipe out the entire country without fail, but e-bombs are a lot safer and easier to make.

[Centurius]

E-bombs can be aimed at military targets. A small bomb can take out something as small as a TV station and you can gradually make it go high enough to cover around 10 kilometers. Nuclear EMPs are different, as they wipe out the entire country without fail, but e-bombs are a lot safer and easier to make.

E-Bombs are but the ones used this time were made to take out the whole country.

[Sargun II]

E-Bombs are but the ones used this time were made to take out the whole country.

I know. I'm the only nation in the world with e-bombs right now. (I introduced them and I own all the rights, specs and everything, yay monopolies)

Edited February 15, 2009 by Sargun

[Centurius]

I know. I'm the only nation in the world with e-bombs right now. (I introduced them and I own all the rights, specs and everything, yay monopolies)

Wrong my friend I purchased Production rights and 2 factories

[Sargun II]

Wrong my friend I purchased Production rights and 2 factories

wut

Oh, yeah. d'oh

[Sumeragi]

It is standard issue, in most Soviet equipment and US communications/power equipment. So, I don't know where you've heard that before.

Only within the military, and not even the US has EMP-proofed everything. You're going to have at least 80% of your regular forces fired unless you made them EMP-proof in the beginning.

People just don't know this thing called economics and "RL".

This is an old and tired argument. Its being called attention to because its the first time its been used when people were AROUND. You can't really well make this argument when you don't make it easy to find for people that there could be a problem. I never imagined, nor did Vektor that we did not assume nations protected themselves out of sheer common sense. Nor did I imagine that there were any of these bombs big enough to disable a nation, I've always assumed it was tactical in nature.

The majority of players weren't actually around when you guys were using these weapons, times change. Just like mechs and space platforms, while some may have been ok with it back then does not justify it today.

That's just BS, Triyun. It happened when YOU weren't around. Most of the major players, however, were.

The issue is, is that there is a limit of 20 nukes that Lavo in this case could deploy

Shan used over 60 nuclear warheads during the Oceanic War against me, and NOW you complain? That contradicts what you said above. Please, be consistent for once, OOC-wise.

[MercyFallout]

Triyun, your inability to remain consistent and to complain only when it is used against you or your friends is highly disturbing. Furthermore, only you and some of your NPO buddies weren't around. Almost every other active roleplayer was.

Malatose, even the United States military at the current moment is highly vulnerable to an EMP attack and almost all of it's civilian infrastructure as well. EMP protection has fallen significantly in the standards of the US since the end of the Cold War.

Since Lavo specifically used non-nuclear EMP warheads, your nation isn't completely blacked nor is all of Europe. Since you have no explicitly roleplayed the development of an anti-EMP program, some of your military and high level government sites will be auto-protected but the majority of your civilian infrastructure and a good slice (not a majority per se, but enough) of your military will be hit and blacked out since, at the very least, you were hit by 190 EMP warheads (though a number much higher than that came up as Lavo has developed his MIRVs past the '87 Peacemaker).

Edited February 15, 2009 by MercyFallout

[Triyun]

Triyun, your inability to remain consistent and to complain only when it is used against you or your friends is highly disturbing. Furthermore, only you and some of your NPO buddies weren't around. Almost every other active roleplayer was.

Malatose, even the United States military at the current moment is highly vulnerable to an EMP attack and almost all of it's civilian infrastructure as well. EMP protection has fallen significantly in the standards of the US since the end of the Cold War.

Since Lavo specifically used non-nuclear EMP warheads, your nation isn't completely blacked nor is all of Europe. Since you have no explicitly roleplayed the development of an anti-EMP program, some of your military and high level government sites will be auto-protected but the majority of your civilian infrastructure and a good slice (not a majority per se, but enough) of your military will be hit and blacked out since, at the very least, you were hit by 190 EMP warheads (though a number much higher than that came up as Lavo has developed his MIRVs past the '87 Peacemaker).

MY inability? Here are some things I've objected to that I could easily use to my advantage.

1) Navies by people who don't have them. (I agreed with HK-47 banning them, and even objected to Mudd using one when he didn't have it in game and he was my oldest ally, I could easily just supply the FU with them)

2) Nukes being given to people, again I got plenty of allies who these could be supplied too.

The reason I'm objecting to this is because I found out about it. It is the same thing as a doomsday device. Its a strategic weapon that is being used without using up your nuclear warheads slots. That is the sole issue with it.

As Vektor exhaustively pointed out to you two in between your jeering of him in #cnrp, your wrong about EMP bombs.

Edited February 15, 2009 by Triyun

[Malatose]

A regular EMP strike is not as potent as a Nuclear-based EMP strike. If it was, I'm pretty sure the USSR wouldn't have relied on three versions of the SS-18 MIRV ICBM (38x 250 kt yield, 24x 500 kt yield, or 15-17x 1 Mt yield) to deliver a nuclear pulse; or the specifically built 20MT EMP Pulse version, if they believed that a regular emp could just about get the job done (and they were the only country to really produce regular E-Bombs in significant quantity.)

The fact is, a regular EMP is very limited (power wise and radius wise) and for the best effects, it really depends on how/when/where the bomb was detonated. Either way, most modern equipment is LESS likely to be effected by EMP, because of basic advances in engineering technology.

[Biohazard]

First off, let me start off with this: What I'm about to say is probably going to get me warned, if one of you don't report me. I fully understand this, comprehend it, and am willing to accept my punishment.

That being said, grow some damn balls, you babies. Seriously. This was used many times in the past, and only a complete, biased, !@#$%*ING, blustering IDIOT would make an argument against it. BIG DEAL, you Got EMP'D. Deal with it, RP the god damn damage, and continue the Roleplay. Honestly, I don't see why the entirety of you idiots need to create a thread about something, because it happened to one of your little puppets. These have been used before, in many wars, and (for someone here, they know who they are) if you are complaining that you 'NEVER KNEW ABOUT THEM' get off your $@!, read some damn threads, and then make a valid statement. Tired of the !@#$%*fest that CNRP has degraded into, and people like you, who in an RP war, or anything else, resort to OOC First, IC second.

[/vent]

Very well then. I shall be civil, from here on out.

Now, honestly. The use of EMPs has been RP'd before, and they are a conventional part of RP for higher-up nations. It doesn't take that much to create an EMP. That being said, I believe Lavo even mentioned that he did not SAY your entire nation was knocked out of commission, Vektor. He said he launched EMPs. It's YOUR job to decide how much is a fair amount. Not only that, but unless you have weapons and armor which are already EMP-proof (in their standard model, which not a lot of things have), You MUST RP designing EMP-proof weapons, or buying rights to produce, or buying weapons that are EMP-proof.

1) Navies by people who don't have them. (I agreed with HK-47 banning them, and even objected to Mudd using one when he didn't have it in game and he was my oldest ally, I could easily just supply the FU with them)

2) Nukes being given to people, again I got plenty of allies who these could be supplied too.

@1. Navies are allowed to operate, if the person has the potential to buy a navy, but do no wish to buy one due to other reasons (ie, bills, etc). People who do this, are only able to operate a Green Water navy.

@2. It's like how it is today. You only give nukes to those that are your allies, and close ones at that.

Now, please, stop all the unnecessary, whining, !@#$%*ing, and biasedness, and continue the RP.

EDIT: To clarify, I meant buy IG-Navy, not buy from someone RP-wise. I'm against that, btw.

Edited February 15, 2009 by Biohazard

[MercyFallout]

By your own calculations Malatose, each one of Lavo's EMPs is able to do about 10 kilometers worth of electromagnetic damage.

It has been decided that each one of Lavo's MIRVs has 25 warheads. 25 warheads * 19 missiles = 475 warheads.

Area of one warheads effect = r^2*pi = 25 *pi = 78.53981634 km^2

Area of one * 475 = 37306.41276 km^2

Since Germany is some 357,021 km^2 of land, 10.45% of Germany has been affected by this EMP onslaught. This means basically every single major city in Germany (and most of Germany's power grid + industrial power) have been hit and blacked out/fried by Lavo's EMP attack. The majority of the smaller towns and country side remains unaffected.

Edited February 15, 2009 by MercyFallout

[XRCatD]

edit-nvm

Edited February 15, 2009 by XRCatD

[King Kevz]

I ahve a question about these EMP weapons. I have nothing against their use or anything however, wouldn't the cost of producing and upkeeping them be expensive? I mean would it be as expensive as say 1 nuke IG = i emp weapons in the RP or would it be different.

[Sumeragi]

The reason I'm objecting to this is because I found out about it.

You found out at a strange time, given that you were around when I've been bombed far worse than any of the current EMPed countries.

Ignorance is not excusable when you had the chance, Triyun. Put up with it.

[Triyun]

You found out at a strange time, given that you were around when I've been bombed far worse than any of the current EMPed countries.

Ignorance is not excusable when you had the chance, Triyun. Put up with it.

Oh noes I didn't read your RP.

[Chancellor Bismarck]

Um, knock knock, earth to Triyun, you've used EMP bombs before.

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...t&p=1241874

"EMP bombs would hit enemy radar and telecommunications sites as well as enemy HQs to bring them offline, these would be followed by conventional bunker busting warheads. Cruise missiles would also be fired, these aimed at hitting enemy rear line fuel supply ships, fuel depots, and air fields to knock out the enemies capacity to keep their carrier forces deployed in the battlefield zone without returning to port to resupply."

Edited February 16, 2009 by Pacifism

[Triyun]

Um, knock knock, earth to Triyun, you've used EMP bombs before.

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...t&p=1241874

"EMP bombs would hit enemy radar and telecommunications sites as well as enemy HQs to bring them offline, these would be followed by conventional bunker busting warheads. Cruise missiles would also be fired, these aimed at hitting enemy rear line fuel supply ships, fuel depots, and air fields to knock out the enemies capacity to keep their carrier forces deployed in the battlefield zone without returning to port to resupply."

I do not deny using them as tactical weapons. I targeted specific complexes with them, not whole countries. Read the title, I'm referring the usuage as strategic weapons.

[Sargun II]

Triyun, the bombs themselves only hit about 10% of his land, and Malatose himself RP'd only 45% (if one end gets knocked out the other end does too) "damage" with work going on to fix it. An e-bomb has about a maximum range of 10 km from what I've read (and that's what's been RPd so far) and the fact that we were able to find a solution means this thread shouldn't even be here. They're not being banned - they have a 40% success rate, sometimes worse if you're unlucky and sometimes better if you are. I don't see a problem.

[King Kevz]

Is anyone going to answer my question or am I going to be ignored.

[Il Terra Di Agea]

Is anyone going to answer my question or am I going to be ignored.

Sure, I'll answer.

Although I am not a master of the subject, I would assume that the EMP bombs are of non-nuclear nature, and hence don't serve the same problems to keep as nukes. A nuke has the constant issue of "If this thing isn't like new, it could kill us all with radiation", where as an EMP might loose some potency with time, but not kill everyone because of it. I could be wrong (in fact, it wouldn't surprise me), but that is my understanding of it all.