Large navys, balanced navies, or buy at war?

[Oktavia]

For every 1,000 infras you have, its going to cost $6,650,000 in total if you buy 1 of every ship type. Then for 1 of every ship, its going to cost $140,000 upkeep a day. 5 of each = $700,000 increase on your daily bills, which can be quite expensive if you don't have a-lot of cash wonders.

The only restrictions on the ammount of ships you possess is developmental and there's no "navy ship" limit like on aircraft.

So for keeping a powerful Navy, is it just best to buy every available vessel, or go with a mix-match balanced force? Aircraft Carriers, Submarines, Landing Ships, and Destroyers are the four most powerful.

Frigate, Cruiser, Battleship, Corvette seem more like "fillers". Do we really need to buy those as well if we already qualify for the top 3 vessels?

[Gebiv]

Battleships just aren't worth the upkeep.

EDIT: Unless, of course, you're at war

Edited July 9, 2008 by Gebiv

[nc1701]

I'm currently mixing Frigates and Carriers. Carriers give planes, and the Frigates are cheap and help protect my carriers, I'll probably buy a few destroyers at some point too.

[Drai]

I'm going 5 Aircraft Carriers, max Land Ships, and max Destroyers. I will buy Subs if war is coming, and all those fillers if I have time before war, but after the sub purchases.

[SilverHawk]

Battleships are the only ships immune to Nuclear Strikes. They are worth having around.

[Count Rupert]

Battleships are the only ships immune to Nuclear Strikes. They are worth having around.

They are not the only ones immune to nuclear strikes, so are Destroyers, Submarines and Aircraft Carriers.

[SilverHawk]

They are not the only ones immune to nuclear strikes, so are Destroyers, Submarines and Aircraft Carriers.

That may be so, but numbers are numbers and 4 Battleships will defend better then 1 Cruiser after a Nuclear Attack.

[Count Rupert]

That may be so, but numbers are numbers and 4 Battleships will defend better then 1 Cruiser after a Nuclear Attack.

I understand that, but I didn't say anything about whether battleships were worth having, only on your inaccurate claim they were the only ones unaffected by nuclear strikes.

[BulletBait]

A large nation like mine can have over 60 ships.

You can only buy 5 ships a day max.

No way you can build up fast enough to cover that, buy now or get stuffed.

I'm buying a mix of 1 carrier and 4 support every day until maxed out.

[Oktavia]

Well, just to point out.

Destroyers can break blockades. 11 str, nuke immune

Submarines can cause blockades. 12 str, 15 to carriers, nuke immune

Frigates can create and break blockades. 8 str, 12 to subs

Cruisers can create and break blockades. 6 str, 10 to Destroyers

So I'd want Landing Craft, Destroyers, Submarines, Aircraft Carriers, and Frigates or all of those minus Frigates?

Edited July 9, 2008 by Oktavia

[SilverHawk]

I understand that, but I didn't say anything about whether battleships were worth having, only on your inaccurate claim they were the only ones unaffected by nuclear strikes.

When I was looking through the Navy Suggestions and Improvements Thread made by the Admin, at the time only the Battleship was shown to be nuke immune.

[SilverHawk]

Well, just to point out.

Destroyers can break blockades. 11 str, nuke immune

Submarines can cause blockades. 12 str, 15 to carriers, nuke immune

Frigates can create and break blockades. 8 str, 12 to subs

Cruisers can create and break blockades. 6 str, 10 to Destroyers

So I'd want Landing Craft, Destroyers, Submarines, Aircraft Carriers, and Frigates or all of those minus Frigates?

By everything Nuke Immune is a good one, and anything that has a combat modifier or bonus to other combat actions. (Which means every single Ship.)

[kswiss2783]

I suspect keeping max carriers, frigates, destroyers and landing ships and buying subs at wartime will be a good idea.

[zzzptm]

If Great War Next happens tomorrow, this discussion is important.

If it happens in the next 14 days, this discussion is kinda important.

If it gets underway after all the nations interested in navies have maxed out their fleets, then the arguments on what to have and what not to have will be moot, I predict. One would want to have maximum naval purchases of all ships, period.

Consider: there will be very little variation in maximum fleet size given that most folks with 5 drydocks/5 shipyards are going to have, minimum, 6 of everything. A nation of 6000 infra taking on a 9000 infra nation in naval war will see that the 9000 infra nation has an extra of every ship but a carrier. That's not much more of a margin between the fleets. Yes, the 9000 infra guy has an edge, but not a dominant one in terms of overall strength comparisons.

Now, if Mr. 6000 with a full navy hits Mr. 9000 without, Mr. 9000 gets blockaded and faces 25 more planes each day from Mr. 6000. Mr. 6000 also has a percentage edge in ground fighting from his landing craft.

[cyan9]

The way I see it, it will be almost impossible to max out of ships. . your going to need 36,000 INF in order to max out on subs, landing craft and CV. so startergy will be inmportant. do you ocus on subs, CVs or landing craft? also do you focus on destroyers or the blockade ships. so what you buy will have a huge impact.

[TheBFG]

The way I see it, it will be almost impossible to max out of ships. . your going to need 36,000 INF in order to max out on subs, landing craft and CV. so startergy will be inmportant. do you ocus on subs, CVs or landing craft? also do you focus on destroyers or the blockade ships. so what you buy will have a huge impact.

I don't understand where the 36K infra comes from?

[Gryphon]

So for keeping a powerful Navy, is it just best to buy every available vessel, or go with a mix-match balanced force? Aircraft Carriers, Submarines, Landing Ships, and Destroyers are the four most powerful.

Frigate, Cruiser, Battleship, Corvette seem more like "fillers". Do we really need to buy those as well if we already qualify for the top 3 vessels?

1st of all, landing ships are not powerful warships. All enemy break-blockade vessels need to be destroyed in order to use landing ships in battle support, which will take a while to happen, so at first, only a ship's strength will matter, for protecting carriers, taking out enemy carriers, and eventually taking out all break-blockade vessels.

2nd of all, the only vessel that is anything close to a "filler" is a corvette. Frigates are more powerful than destroyers against submarines, and submarines are more powerful than anything against carriers, so frigates are great for protecting carriers. Even without the bonus against subs, they are powerful warships. Although cruisers are somewhat weak unless used against destroyers, they are low-upkeep vessels that can both make and break blockades, so when your fleet starts getting smaller in a war, you'll be glad you had some cruisers to boost your fleet. Battleships are somewhat weak, and high-upkeep, but again, they can make and break blockades, and are invulnerable to nuclear attacks, which is a huge plus. Also, I find it weird that people say battleships are not worth their upkeep but don't mention corvettes, because battleships have just as much upkeep as corvettes in terms of strength (unless you're scared of landing ships), and corvettes are less cost-effective to buy, and are way less capable. They are the only ship that cannot provide battle support, make, or break blockades, and they are vulnerable to nukes. Corvettes are definitely filler warships. Personally, I think that they should be used anyway, but just given the lowest priority.

[cyan9]

I don't understand where the 36K infra comes from?

To max out the bonuses you need 20 LCs, and 10 subs,, 10 destroyers and 5 CVs. Subs and LCs are both shipyard boats. that means in order to buy 20 LCs and 10 subs. you would need to put 3 of teh subs torwards thre improvements and 2 of the LCs to the shipyard improvement as well. That means in order to get the last 17 LCs and & subs you need 36000 inf. 18*2000=36000

but these rankings are extremly backwards. the only thing they out right was the CVs, and subs right IMO. They way destroyers was done is good if you don't compare them to the other asw boats.

Notice in the game it is completely backwards. there is no way a frigate tops a battleship. ( battleships should be able to give land support as well) and from the good old wiki.

The term "frigate" was readopted during World War II by the British Royal Navy to describe a new type of anti-submarine escort vessel that was larger than a corvette, but smaller than a destroyer

[Amoshu]

To max out the bonuses you need 20 LCs, and 10 subs,, 10 destroyers and 5 CVs. Subs and LCs are both shipyard boats. that means in order to buy 20 LCs and 10 subs. you would need to put 3 of teh subs torwards thre improvements and 2 of the LCs to the shipyard improvement as well. That means in order to get the last 17 LCs and & subs you need 36000 inf. 18*2000=36000

I think you might need to go ahead and test out some of the naval abilities. The improvements allow +1 for each type of supported vessel. If you have one Shipyard, you've got access to one more of each of the following vessels; Landing Ship, Frigate, Submarine, Aircraft Carrier. A nation with 5000 infrastructure and one shipyard has the ability to support two submarines, aircraft carriers and frigates, and three landing ships.

[mythicknight]

I'm going max ACs/Subs/Destroyers, then mixing and matching the rest as the need arises.

[Embereus]

I'm going max ACs/Subs/Destroyers, then mixing and matching the rest as the need arises.

pretty much this.

Max AC's and Subs is a great offense (and thus defense) by themselves.

But before maxing out on Destroyers, I'll max out on Frigates to defend from Subs. Then Destroyers.

Edited July 10, 2008 by Embereus

[Mirreille]

I've been thinking about this a bit as well. The aircraft carriers are probably the main thing people are looking to get right away. Well, that makes sense. I don't think Battleships or landing craft are needed right away. The battleships mainly because of the lower value to their high maintenace cost. I would definitely want the cruisers and frigates, as they are budget ships compared to the others and will fight well against the more expensive ones. Destroyers and Subs would depend on how much navy you want to carry in peace time. Same with corvettes I guess, but they are small potatoes.

Definitely navies are going to change the way wars are fought. The extra power from the CV aircraft and the missile bonus from the DD's are obvious, I am not sure how much of a boost the landing craft will really give though. I've been thinking about the blockades, and I am thinking it is going to cost attackers far more then they can hurt a defender if he collects income every day, then they will pay to maintain their fleets. The missile bonus and the extra aircraft will still hurt though.

[kswiss2783]

pretty much this.

Max AC's and Subs is a great offense (and thus defense) by themselves.

But before maxing out on Destroyers, I'll max out on Frigates to defend from Subs. Then Destroyers.

I thought about buying subs at wartime and keeping AC, destroyers, landing ships and frigates

[cyan9]

I think you might need to go ahead and test out some of the naval abilities. The improvements allow +1 for each type of supported vessel. If you have one Shipyard, you've got access to one more of each of the following vessels; Landing Ship, Frigate, Submarine, Aircraft Carrier. A nation with 5000 infrastructure and one shipyard has the ability to support two submarines, aircraft carriers and frigates, and three landing ships.

oh thanks. I didn't know it was each. thanks for correcting me. you'll still need 22,500 INF to get those 5 extra subs. (for a total of 10)

[Stylesjl]

It seems that getting carriers, frigates, and submarines in peacetime is the best way to go while others could be bought at wartime. I worked out that it could cost nearly two million in daily upkeep if I put my navy up to it's full potential. Not a pretty figure, it certainly puts the guns vs butter dilemma in starker contrast