The GM's Court

[Yawoo]

Requesting an auto in the African war. Last IC post by the opposition was on [b]December 14[/b]. It is now [b]January 16[/b]. It is completely unreasonable that, as the defenders, we are supposed to wait [u]over a month[/u]. We keep hearing how posts have been readied for weeks now (one needs only look above to see Mara's claim), but have yet to see any post in the war since [b]December 14[/b]. It is ridiculous to assume that it takes, again, [u]over a month[/u] to clear up OOC questions. For lack of a better term, the AUP has been stalling, plain and simple. We have an activity time of 25 days to ensure someone remains active in the CNRP community, why do we have to wait more than that time on a coalition which started the war? The defending party should not have to have their own RP stalled because the party that began the war refuses to post for a myriad of supposed reasons. Any questions or concerns could have been brought up and solved in December should the AUP actually have wanted them solved. We are now entering the mid-point on a new GM team, a team which granted a request for a neutral GM to rule on war requests. We have been assured by this neutral GM a post would be up on Saturday, January 12. You don't get to make a promise and break it whenever you want, Tanis, I will hold you accountable for the promises/assurances/etc. you make. It is now [u]Wednesday, January 16[/u] with still no post. This is ridiculous.

GM Team:

Consider this my formal request for the neutral wartime GM to be replaced in favor of the GM team once more. Such a position was originally introduced to ensure a fair balance to all parties. Making one side wait [b]33 [/b]days is unreasonable.

[Kankou]

If the situation leading to the delay itself was unreasonable, I do not see how this wait in itself is unreasonable.

[JEDCJT]

[quote name='Kankou' timestamp='1358355811' post='3077572']
If the situation leading to the delay itself was unreasonable, I do not see how this wait in itself is unreasonable.
[/quote]

Would it be reasonable for you to wait for more than a month because the other side consistently and deliberately refused to continue the RP for a myriad of nitpicking reasons? I think not.

Edited January 16, 2013 by JEDCJT

[Kankou]

Making a general statement. I do not have quite the mind to look into the current conflict itself.

[Captain Enema]

[quote name='JEDCJT' timestamp='1358365303' post='3077647']
Would it be reasonable for you to wait for more than a month because the other side consistently and deliberately refused to continue the RP for a myriad of nitpicking reasons? I think not.
[/quote]

That's a matter of perception, I think the AUP bunch has raised some very good points. Please encourage your partners to clear up these issues in a more open matter and the problems would be resolved.

[Tanis777]

Being the neutral party has required an approach that has taken longer than expected. I'm sorry yawoo that I'm unconvincing the responding party by taking the time to tap my resources to the problems raised by various movements and technology. I will not be rushed to hasty decisions and will bring full logic to the table. This looks like supporting the AUP; however, that is wrong.

[Executive Minister]

I appreciate Tanis' efforts at being as informed as possible before making nation changing rulings - despite what the peanut gallery may say.

But I realize being in a position that counters Triyun for very long is ultimately one's folly given the current status of Cnrp.

I am prepared to allow Cent to retcon his cluster bombing for a more safer (for his aircraft) standoff cm attack. He gets to get away with his light losses, and ill stop demanding more dead airframes. This way, Cent does not have impossible-to detect aircraft. Of course, should he place his aircraft in similar circumstances again, he will be detectedand shot at, since his bombers do not have Harry Potter's invisibility cloak.

This will allow the north africa campaign to continue.


In another favor to Tanis, I will not dispute the TSI's status quo in the sulieman thread. They moved first, then I did withoit knowing just yet that they did. The thread stays the same, and is merged into the Assassination thread as legitimate moves the Tsi made. Mara and I will copy our responses and include them in the new round of responses to the north african campaign.

Indian ocean will need more work. Just the naval part, the moves on seychelles and somalia will remain as they are like i mentioned above.

[Yawoo]

Tanis, you had plenty of time to look over the problems before issuing an assurance posting would continue. It is now, [b]January 17[/b]... [i][u]34[/u][/i] days since the AUP posted in the war thread. Every day this "war" is put on hold as the result of a neutral GM's decisions is a greater call for precedent in later cases.

Same requests from yesterday.

[Kankou]

The stalling on part of the main powers of the "defending party" (Anti-AUP coalition) seems to be a bigger problem than the "attacking party" (AUP). Frankly, at this point all I'm seeing is whining that members of the "defending party" have accused of the players they've attacked in the past.

But that's just me, since apparently I'm not unbiased and all that lot according to some people.

[Vidarr the Terrible]

Nobody is unbiased in CNRP. Everyone has a side they like and a side they don't like, and those that don't care aren't going to want to read through that entire thread and the dry technological details.

[Tanis777]

I've had about one week to look over the war, dealing with the details. Out of the 34 days, I've delayed it by nearly 7 days. I'm getting pushback from everyone on some particular detail, and you're telling me to grant auto advances along some others. Obviously, there's something wrong with the current system, so continue to take a seat.

Frankly, later cases is part of people rolling over and not dealing with it. I don't mind to look it over, get third-party involvement and debate it. Is this a longer course of action, yes. Does thing break from the usual granting of auto advances in past wars, yes. Is this war different than others, I would say yes.

I understand your impatience, but until people stop balking at things I'm trying to give to reason on along with flipping some arguments on their head, we're still going to be stuck.

Edited January 17, 2013 by Tanis777

[Centurius]

[quote name='Executive Minister' timestamp='1358403607' post='3077901']
I appreciate Tanis' efforts at being as informed as possible before making nation changing rulings - despite what the peanut gallery may say.

But I realize being in a position that counters Triyun for very long is ultimately one's folly given the current status of Cnrp.

I am prepared to allow Cent to retcon his cluster bombing for a more safer (for his aircraft) standoff cm attack. He gets to get away with his light losses, and ill stop demanding more dead airframes. This way, Cent does not have impossible-to detect aircraft. Of course, should he place his aircraft in similar circumstances again, he will be detectedand shot at, since his bombers do not have Harry Potter's invisibility cloak.

This will allow the north africa campaign to continue.


In another favor to Tanis, I will not dispute the TSI's status quo in the sulieman thread. They moved first, then I did withoit knowing just yet that they did. The thread stays the same, and is merged into the Assassination thread as legitimate moves the Tsi made. Mara and I will copy our responses and include them in the new round of responses to the north african campaign.

Indian ocean will need more work. Just the naval part, the moves on seychelles and somalia will remain as they are like i mentioned above.
[/quote]

For the sake of getting this damned war going on again I'm willing to accept this compromise.

[Triyun]

I've given a very detailed reason why my ability to observe data points is superior to EMs. Capability to comprehensively observe point of origin, ability to see ports, and therefore be able to overcome the signal versus noise problem in intelligence gathering is the key. If you don't understand the concepts I can be queried on IRC to give you why it gives key advantages or I can give you a rather long bibliography of various journal articles and available books to read, which describe my point but I'm guessing people would rather have it explained in conversation.

Edited January 17, 2013 by Triyun

[Tanis777]

If you keep hammering on the points of just OTH-B, it's unfounded. One site alone is enough to cover most of the Indian Ocean based on current technology. The overall picture is what OTH-B is for, there is no specific area to track. You would use the other intelligence gathering assets to focus on points of interest as needed.

Besides, the your argument of hiding in commercial traffic would give you away anyways as neutral vessels came across the Indian into EM's fleet and vice versa. Sure, they couldn't tell anyone more than force composition and last known position, but consider the HUMINT aspect nulling all your work and superseding all the vaulted technology and prepositioning.

It's simple and it's right.

Edited January 17, 2013 by Tanis777

[Justinian the Mighty]

Who the hell keeps asking Kankou for her opinion and Kankou if you're nation is locked how is it that you can make so many posts here, but can't make any ic posts?

[Sarah Tintagyl]

I'm tired of this war...as a GM, as a player, and as a person.

 

I'm going to tell you why:

 

Because for the past two months really all I hear when I come onto IRC or when I check the forums, is talk about this war. To be quite honest, it isn't going to move forward because the people RPing don't know how to properly RP a war because we've grown so disconnected from each other the Role-Play system is starting to break. Into the month of January, Tanis was chosen as a non-combative GM and was not able to move the war forward. Now we're going to move to a potentially new GM team, who will then try to fix the war and chances are, won't succeed because to actually carry this war to finish will take a year anyways, if nuking on one side or the other doesn't happen first.

 

It has been so long that I don't even know who is really at fault anymore. I look through the war thread and its EM, Triyun, and Tanis arguing about tech. Then we have people making a tech thread to try to reform the system (I enjoy this because it brings back people like Lynneth, Maelstrom, and Mogar, who are never really going to play again, unless they get their perfect toys). What it comes down to, to me, is that you guys don't want to fight a war. Personally, EM, I think you're doing all this tech argument because you want people to quit and give up because you have a shit alliance that fell through and now well, arguing tech and getting people bored is the best OOC strategy in CNRP. It's worked for countless players in the past and its working now.

 

Triyun, if you want the war to continue, stop posting in the tech threads and stop arguing because it just turns into who knows about engineering and military strength more and then we get Kankou emailing professors about aircraft or whatever she was talking about. My point is, EM and Triyun, cause whether you like it or not the war is about you right now. It started over Gloval and probably Cent, but now its you two, cause Cent doesn't care anymore and shouldn't boast about how strong Athens is anyways. The war is about you two, you two are the leaders and if you two can't sit down and talk about how the war is going to continue within the next five days and then post the logs in the GM Court, then I'm putting a poll up before I might be ousted from office, asking for the war to be wiped.

 

Furthermore, and EM you can argue this as much as you want, if you guys don't get this war moving in some fashion, I'm going to include in the poll to wipe the war to wipe Aeon because you're just not posting. You're abusing the system and everyone but TBM and Kankou can tell. You never really posted anyways, same with everyone else in Africa aside from Mara and Waffles and Zephyr aren't even putting up a long argument about coming back. One may ask, why aren't coalition countries being wiped then? They didn't start the war and they're still functioning outside of this war, unlike Axo and LZ, post IC and you won't get wiped.

 

Don't respond to this post cause I wont' respond back. This is what I'm going to do unless you guys get the war underway, EM and Triyun, and whoever else in two alliances want to help.

 

Tanis, you're dismissed as a non-combative GM, if you want to help you can, otherwise, you're free to go.

 

Again, I'm not going to respond to this post, nor will I respond to any queries about the war. So if one party is pissed about this, go talk to the opposing coalition and work something out. You're all over 16, it shouldn't be that hard.

[Captain Enema]

Tanis, you're dismissed as a non-combative GM, if you want to help you can, otherwise, you're free to go.

 

Again, I'm not going to respond to this post, nor will I respond to any queries about the war. So if one party is pissed about this, go talk to the opposing coalition and work something out. You're all over 16, it shouldn't be that hard.

 

As you are participant in this war and a GM, I disagree with this entirely.  You simply do not have the power to overturn an agreement between rpers. Now if Triyun and his side of the fence want a different GM, they should sit down and work it out with EM and Mara.

 

Though I do think you have a point about EM's level of activity, he does need to rectify that quickly, through the good graces of pulling a Lavo, 1 sentence somewhere or another to keep under the 25 day limit. However, EM is wise to not allow his opponents to roll him under with their invincible wall of Star Trek toys, it's his nation he's fighting for and he is right to demand they play on a level playing field technology wise. If you are this bumhurt about the tech system, perhaps you should have supported the motion to fix it when it started floundering due to utterly nonsensical arguments of Jomni and Clausewitz all mixed up with the question of if people could use a catapult against a Harrier.
 

[Justinian the Mighty]

I like turtles with freaking laser beams on their heads.

[Captain Enema]

I like turtles with freaking laser beams on their heads.

 

Rabid turtles perchance?

[Centurius]

Sorry Sarah but I'm going to overrule you on this one. It is not within the authority of either the GMs or a rp majority to wipe a nation and/or rp if there has been no chronic violation of rules. Likewise Tanis was implemented with an unanimous vote, it will require the full team to remove him.

[Tanis777]

I know the sediments of Sarah is the familiar 'war fatigue' thing that has come over everyone on the thread, myself included. I also know that you were suppose to talk to the other GMs about wiping the war, but I've privately held the belief that the parties involved in the war are the only ones to wipe it, something that has long been here on CNRP. If they wish to continue, so be it.

[Poseida]

What the fuck is the point of electing GMs if they're going to do nothing?

[Tanis777]

Look, I'll be the first to defend the GMs. They do their job well, this war has fallen on me to keep it moving in the two weeks I've gotten it. Debate clogged most of the first week while the second week was to the forums going down, making posting impossible. Obviously, the astute person watching the OOC threads is the dirty laundry getting out from the fallout from the war, while behind the scenes work is getting done to review the next round of posts. You want to read walls of text, be my guest.

[Poseida]

I'd rather read walls of text than nothing.

[Executive Minister]

I'm tired of this war...as a GM, as a player, and as a person.

 

I'm going to tell you why:

 

Because for the past two months really all I hear when I come onto IRC or when I check the forums, is talk about this war. To be quite honest, it isn't going to move forward because the people RPing don't know how to properly RP a war because we've grown so disconnected from each other the Role-Play system is starting to break. Into the month of January, Tanis was chosen as a non-combative GM and was not able to move the war forward. Now we're going to move to a potentially new GM team, who will then try to fix the war and chances are, won't succeed because to actually carry this war to finish will take a year anyways, if nuking on one side or the other doesn't happen first.

 

Tanis has done a wonderful job and should be commended. First and foremost, for his patience in the face of the insults hurled at him for doing a thankless job. For having his integrity questioned, and for having to put up with the blather he's probably reading right now.

 

Triyun and myself both agreed to have Tanis as our neutral party. It is not Tanis' fault that deliberations took longer than expected because Triyun and others in the OOC thread have not been forthcoming when it came to the compromise we need to move forward.

 

Under Tanis' guidance, i've given a lot to the TSI's side without a thing in return. I've wasted time and effort digging up links to my hardware to be as transparent as possible. I bent to Tanis' will when he said that the TSI would have first dibs on the rest of my 'shitty' alliance members' land even though myself and Mara are right beside the land in question. Heck, I even allowed Cent to retcon part of his post to allow the super stealth bomber issue be dropped for the time being.

 

Tell me Sarah, what have I gotten in return?

 

Dismissing Tanis' efforts as 'not being able to move the war forward' is a travesty you should be ashamed of. Hey, Sarah, I know you mentioned that you wouldn't be responding to any comment I made during your rage post. I don't care. I want you to read this though:

 

Tanis has done a lot on his own voluntarily, much more than you could have ever done had you been in his position to be frank. Definitely much more than you've done in all your instances of being GM up until now.

 

It has been so long that I don't even know who is really at fault anymore. I look through the war thread and its EM, Triyun, and Tanis arguing about tech. Then we have people making a tech thread to try to reform the system (I enjoy this because it brings back people like Lynneth, Maelstrom, and Mogar, who are never really going to play again, unless they get their perfect toys). What it comes down to, to me, is that you guys don't want to fight a war. Personally, EM, I think you're doing all this tech argument because you want people to quit and give up because you have a shit alliance that fell through and now well, arguing tech and getting people bored is the best OOC strategy in CNRP. It's worked for countless players in the past and its working now.

 

Personally, I couldn't give a damn about what you think, Sarah. Your actions here show me that you don't deserve it.

 

I have been in contact with everyone as much as possible. I have not disappeared for weeks at a time. If I have noticed that no threads related to the war have been moved with a new post, I go on IRC to check out what's going on. You complained that all you do is hear about the war in IRC whenever you are online - what, are you telling me no one has the ovaries to bring up the topic when I enter the channel? If you are so concerned about this, why not query me?

 

No. I have maintained contact with whoever possible, responded in as timely a manner as possible and have been as co-operative as possible. What, do you want me to just give my nation over to you? Is that the sort of compromise you're looking for?

 

We have all seen Triyun bail out of the OOC thread because he didn't like what Tanis' rulings were. If that isn't considered a huge roadblock in continuing this war, I don't know what is. Why have you not threatened to wipe Tianxia, Sarah? Afraid you won't be able to RP out your honeymoons or whatever with it gone? You are biased and don't deserve to be a GM, Sarah.

 

Triyun, if you want the war to continue, stop posting in the tech threads and stop arguing because it just turns into who knows about engineering and military strength more and then we get Kankou emailing professors about aircraft or whatever she was talking about. My point is, EM and Triyun, cause whether you like it or not the war is about you right now. It started over Gloval and probably Cent, but now its you two, cause Cent doesn't care anymore and shouldn't boast about how strong Athens is anyways. The war is about you two, you two are the leaders and if you two can't sit down and talk about how the war is going to continue within the next five days and then post the logs in the GM Court, then I'm putting a poll up before I might be ousted from office, asking for the war to be wiped.

 

Wait. You want him to get the war to continue, but want him to stop posting in the OOC thread? You then try to go the high road and complain we aren't talking about how the war will continue? Are you really that dense?

 

Furthermore, and EM you can argue this as much as you want, if you guys don't get this war moving in some fashion, I'm going to include in the poll to wipe the war to wipe Aeon because you're just not posting. You're abusing the system and everyone but TBM and Kankou can tell. You never really posted anyways, same with everyone else in Africa aside from Mara and Waffles and Zephyr aren't even putting up a long argument about coming back. One may ask, why aren't coalition countries being wiped then? They didn't start the war and they're still functioning outside of this war, unlike Axo and LZ, post IC and you won't get wiped.

 

I won't ask why the coalition won't be wiped by you Sarah. I know why.

 

You've gone from threatening to wipe the war to wiping me. You are a lazy GM. Your blindness and obvious bias deserves the community's scorn... and Triyun tried to say that Tanis was biased. Pathetic.

 

Don't respond to this post cause I wont' respond back. This is what I'm going to do unless you guys get the war underway, EM and Triyun, and whoever else in two alliances want to help.

 

Tanis, you're dismissed as a non-combative GM, if you want to help you can, otherwise, you're free to go.

 

Again, I'm not going to respond to this post, nor will I respond to any queries about the war. So if one party is pissed about this, go talk to the opposing coalition and work something out. You're all over 16, it shouldn't be that hard.

 

Oh hell no. I will definitely be posting a response. You've done nothing as a GM and you have just reaffirmed that you won't be responding to any queries regarding the war. Good thing Tanis is around to - oh wait, you dismissed him too. You don't have the power to do that unilaterally. Why people keep voting you in as GM astounds me.

 

 

EDIT: Just incase the board formatting made it unclear. I do not have shitty alliance members - I only wanted to mock Sarah's comments about my shit alliance. The only thing that is shit right now is the way she's carrying out her duties as a GM.
 

Edited January 27, 2013 by Executive Minister