TehChron
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Posts posted by TehChron
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[quote name='Lusitan' timestamp='1320256705' post='2837109']
Congratulations, you're defending Tetris. Now what?
[/quote]
The Legion are the ones crying victim, pointing out the obvious serves it's own purpose. -
[quote name='Flonker' timestamp='1320178411' post='2836645']
How's that workin' out for ya?
[/quote]
Better than you can imagine, as a matter of fact.
Hahaha. -
[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1320174571' post='2836602']
So by that measure, NSO has always thought Legion was a worthwhile alliance eh? Kind of detracts from what ya'll have stated in the past.
[/quote] I don't know about anyone calling the Legion "worthless", but I've only ever called them "insurmountably terrible" and stuff like that.
[quote]Actually, the second Tetris leaves, nothing changes. NSO is still the one refusing to surrender to Legion. That does not mean Legion is trying to hit just NSO, it means that Legion will not accept white peace with NSO. Nothing more, nothing less. I have backed up what I stated. You are the one who has come here spewing crap and trying to spin !@#$ left, right, and center without even attempting to back anything up. [/quote]
You havn't backed up a thing. So what crap have I been spewing without any backing up, then? The way callouts work is that when you do so, you shove evidence into the persons face so that they're unable to wriggle out of it.
[quote]Okay, do I really need to break this down for ya? Apparently so:
1) Legion states NSO must admit defeat to get peace
2) NSO refuses to admit defeat and counters with white peace
3) Legion refuses the white peace offer
I would say that ya'll made this war about yourselves, not Legion. Legion went in with what they believe is a reasonable offer and NSO refused. NSO countered with what ya'll believe is a reasonable offer and Legion refused. [/quote]So again, based on your bullet points, the Legion made this war about the NSO because we refused to get anything other than a white peace?
OK. I disagree with the premise, but if that's your argument, well, nothing I can really do to contradict you, there.
[quote]So yes, what I stated makes perfect sense. What you are stating though makes no sense except as an obvious PR attempt. So at least you seem to care about PR, regardless of how NSO feels.[/quote]That's true, actually. I care about it like I care about any other game, in that I always try to play to win, regardless of the circumstances. -
[quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1320173835' post='2836591']
There is an ODN joke, really a dozen really, that could be inserted here but I will not stray that far off the topic...
Not what I said. What I said was that you had a choice whether or not to defend an ally that screwed up. You chose to defend them. I was not faulting on that point, but like all decisions, it has consequences, sometimes good, sometimes bad, sometimes, both.[/quote]
[quote]You made the decision to support Tetris. That much is understandable in a way, since you helped put them in the mess they are in. [/quote]You certainly implied it as if it were some kind of negative action on our part. But I'll leave it at that.
[quote]If Tetris wasn't busy provoking Legion in the first place, the current war would not have happened. Assign blame where it belongs. Actually, Legion waiting for the downgrade almost sounds like actual strategy.
[/quote]Everyone and their mother has provoked the Legion for years. What's unusual is that the Legion actually did something about it, when the NSO did something far more blatant just a few months ago and the Legion did nothing in response.
[quote]Then if they do, you're good with that...I'm sure that comes as something noteworthy to them.[/quote]Quit being obtuse, Hal.
[quote]The day you can lecture me on doing right by friends is the day that Valhalla and IRON stop arguing over who is going to stay longer on the battlefield for the other...in other words, never.
[/quote]The day you can back up either one of your claims, the first of us being fair weather friends, and the second being that youre any better, I freely invite for you to prove them both. So lecture away, Hal. -
[quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1320173085' post='2836578']
Since the point was missed I suppose...
Firing the first shot doesn't necessarily make you the aggressor, neither here or "elsewhere". It is a question of provocation. A war declaration involving evidence of spying has traditionally been seen as a justifiable reaction to provocation, not an aggressive action. There are other forms of provocation that are recognized as well, but the point is that it is inappropriate to call Legion the aggressor, unless you are trying to build a case against Legion that will provide other alliances with a justification for entering a war in which they have no business being involved in.
[/quote]When did the Legion obtain evidence of Tetris spying?
Since, to my limited knowledge, the Legion never did, that makes your entire point kind of moot, you know? -
[quote name='Lurunin' timestamp='1320172726' post='2836573']
mind posting them again? i can't seem to find said logs
[/quote]
They're the ones with NsO and stuff from a couple of weeks ago.
It's quite the random reference on his part. -
[quote name='Fallen Fool' timestamp='1320172206' post='2836567']
Are you NSO government?
[/quote]
Are you going to do anything other cry victim whenever people think about liking us more than they do you?
Feel free to interject when you have something to contribute other than a stunning display of hypocrisy, FF. -
[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1320171714' post='2836560']
Again, that has nothing to do with what I actually stated, nor does it refute anything. So far the only thing respectable done by Tetris/NSO is the fact that both are willing to burn for their allies. Other than that, both ya'lls alliances are utterly worthless.
[/quote]
Which is pretty funny considering you joined the Legion just to get a shot at us. So by some personal measure, you must think that we are worth enough that you want to do whatever you can to ensure we lose on the battlefield.
[quote]And you would be wrong. NSO still DoWed Legion regardless of what you state. That would not change simply because Tetris leaves the field. So you can attempt to spin it however way you wish but it does not make what you state any less false.[/quote]The second the Legion's war with Tetris ends, we wouldnt have any more reason to fight. So if the Legion continues fighting us, it's pretty clear that they're doing it to hit us exclusively, rather than as a continuation of their fighting with the Tetris.
So...how would I be wrong? Really? Just saying "UR WRONG" doesn't make me wrong. If you're going to state something as an irrefutable fact, you better be prepared to back it up.
[quote]Legion is giving a perfectly reasonable term for surrender. NSO is not willing to accept said term. Yet you attempt to blame Legion for something NSO is unwilling to do. Again, spin it however way you want but it is NSO that is holding up the war, not Legion. Tetris are staying in because NSO won't admit defeat and that is simple fact. So yes, it is NSO's fault. [/quote]
Hrm. I see. So the Legion made the war about us because the NSO refused to surrender to the Legion.
Yes, that makes perfect sense, Doch. I can totally see how you're not even remotely explaining things, and just arguing on about how terrible we are regardless of who and what comments you're replying to.
[quote name='Fallen Fool' timestamp='1320171869' post='2836562']
So their hubris is preventing them from surrendering?
[/quote]
I like how you accuse others of having hubris when your collective response to people distrusting your alliance after a massive series of betrayals is to grow a martyr complex. It's really, really, [i]really[/i] funny. -
[quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1320170829' post='2836550']
Wrong already, that's simple NSO propaganda, but continuing...
[/quote] Of course, of course, Tetris actually spied on the Legion, and declared war, and all that good stuff. We're such blatant liars, Hal.
[quote]
I can't think of a single alliance worth mentioning that would have done anything but declare war given a free shot at Tetris. Very few who would back down even in the face of other alliances coming to Tetris' aid. Make up your mind. Legion is WAE because they always backdown, or Legion is WAE because they are too aggressive. You can't have both.[/quote]Sure I can. Legion is WAE because they make the wrong decisions based on the circumstances. Were they consistent in a single course of policy, then over the years it stands to reason that [i]eventually[/i] they'd have some real successes before now. But the only thing consistent about Legion's FA has been both ineptitude and servitude.
False dichotomy, Hal. Legion is terrible, because they find the best way to be terrible all on their own, regardless of the context.
[quote]So much spinning, I'm dizzy.
You made the decision to support Tetris. That much is understandable in a way, since you helped put them in the mess they are in.[/quote] Well, there was also the thing about this treaty we have together...Unless you're saying MDPs are suddenly optional now. Which is news to me, quite frankly.
[quote] Fair enough. But Legion's response was made as a result of [i]provocations made by Tetris[/i]. It is [b]not[/b] by definition an aggressive act, since Legion was [i]justifiably reacting[/i] to that provocation, and did not pick out Tetris to shoot at for lulz or for unjustifiable reasons.[/quote]
That would be correct if Tetris hadnt attempted to resolve the situation via Diplomacy, if the Legion hadn't waited nearly a week to declare (when VE had downgraded it's treaty with them), and if the Legion had actually bothered to discover who the leak in their alliance was instead of look for the easiest scapegoat to hit at the first opportunity.
And [i]you're[/i] dizzy.
[quote]Given that you would never, ever let them forget leaving the battlefield without you much as you never, ever let Legion forget about its previous shortcomings, this is laughable. Actually, Tetris should cancel the treaty today and be done with you, but I know that's not how they roll. They are in their own way honorable, even if they did things that brought them to the point of war and should apologize for them.
[/quote]
Sure we would. Since Tetris are pretty good allies. That you're implying that we are, in any way, keeping Tetris under some kind of threat of retaliation should they peace out before us is beyond laughable.
Just because you can't fathom the idea of people doing right by their friends, does not mean others are incapable of that, you know? Keep it up, by the way, this is fun. -
[quote name='the rebel' timestamp='1320169466' post='2836544']
You took an aggressive action by declaring war to defend an ally. We can go around in nice circles all day with this.[/quote]So whatever happened to this?
[quote]Global wars start through the chaining in of Military Defense Pacts on both sides. So if what you said was true then only the alliance that was first attacked can bring in alliances through MDP's and no one else... Which is false, so maybe you dont know what you're on about with all the spinning you're doing.
[/quote]
Weren't you supposed to demonstrate how I said that at any point? Well, being obtuse works too, since it allows us to "go in nice circles all day with this", which is fun in it's own right.
[quote]Legion isn't keeping you at war, you're through not accepting a peace offer which is basically on the same lines as white peace with just afew more words added.
[/quote]
Legion can simply declare an end to hostilities at any point, after all, they're "winning", right? So they don't really need us to acknowledge a thing, right? "Facts" and whatnot.
[quote]On the first point- I stated you attacked Legion to defend Tetris, but NSO was the alliance who attacked Legion. So your claims that Legion somehow aggressively attacked NSO is false. [/quote]Sorry, Doch, what I'm saying is that [i]if Legion were to peace out Tetris, yet still fight us, the moment that the first one of their members did any damage to a member of the NSO would constitute an aggressive act of war on their part.[/i] When Tetris has been peaced out, the New Sith Order will no longer have anyone to defend. Therefore, we wouldn't be needing to honor our treaty with them in fighting the Legion. The Legion is free to reciprocate, but I believe the New Sith Order will be fine with a simple peacing out once the war with Tetris is completed.
[quote]On the second point- Again, never stated that either. Simply stated that it is fact that Tetris is still currently in this war because of NSO not wanting to admit defeat to get peace. That is fact. You can go all sarcastic as you want but that is simple fact. Instead of being sarcastic, you should take the time to thank Tetris for being stalwart allies who don't leave their friends alone on the battlefield.[/quote]
You and others implied that mightily with all that talk of us keeping Tetris "on the cross" with us, or whatever the terminology used was. And even taking into account that Tetris is still fighting because we are (great guys, those), that doesn't really mean it's our fault.
All that means is that Tetris are !@#$@#$ great allies that don't want to leave a friend on the battlefield. Quit trying to make this about the NSO having some kind of martyr complex, when everyone and their mother knows that it's just because we refuse to admit defeat to a terrible alliance like the Legion. If the Legion were so magnanimous, then they'd just white peace with us as well, so that way Tetris can get out from under fire.
If I remember correctly, the ones that made this war about the NSO was the Legion. And the Legion started it by attacking Tetris in the first place. So, in all seriousness, how is any of this the fault of the New Sith Order, again? -
[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1320168677' post='2836537']
NSO DoWed Legion, not the other way around, so how in the hell would this war somehow become Legion having aggressively attacked NSO? Legion attacked Tetris and NSO attacked Legion to defend Tetris. Should Tetris leave the battlefield (though I doubt they will from the sounds of it), then the basis of this war is gone, but it would still remain NSO having attacked Legion.
[/quote]
NSO defended an ally against the Legion's aggressive declaration. There were no attempts at diplomatic resolution, even when Tetris' government attempted to do so. Whether or not it was unwarranted is neither here nor there, the fact remains that the Legion declared war on the basis of someone humiliating them off the grapevine.
Unless you're saying Tetris didnt need the help to protect itself against the Legion's attack, it's pretty clearly a defensive reaction on the Sith's part. Therefore, keeping us at war when our obligation to fight has run out makes the war yet another aggressive one on the Legion's part. That's all it is.
[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1320168762' post='2836538']
Talk about PR.... Even Tetris has stated they have been given terms but won't leave due to NSO, not Legion, but NSO. I repeat, Tetris is staying on the battlefield currently because of NSO and no one else.
[/quote]
Oh, I didn't know that we were holding a gun to their heads.
We're pretty terrible allies then. Sorry, Tetris! -
[quote name='the rebel' timestamp='1320168346' post='2836532']
Global wars start through the chaining in of Military Defense Pacts on [b]both sides.[/b] So if what you said was true then only the alliance that was first attacked can bring in alliances through MDP's and no one else... Which is false, so maybe you dont know what you're on about with all the spinning you're doing.
[/quote]
[b]Quote me saying that, then.[/b]
All I said was that we were using our MDP to defend an ally, therefore it's a defensive action. The same is true for all MDP activations.
By all means, show this wonderful fallacy of mine in all it's glory. Unless you're being obtuse, in which case, don't. The spin game is fun, after all, and there'd be no point in having spinning ability if I didn't have any opponents to test them out against. -
[quote name='Lincongrad' timestamp='1320168069' post='2836527']
As far as I know, Tetris is welcome to exit the conflict at any time with a simple admission of defeat. Same as you. There is no need for them to suffer.
Admittedly I'm not gov, though.
[/quote]
I hope that your government is sincere with that offer. I would hate for you to be holding innocent parties at eternal war just because we refuse to surrender before we've lost. -
[quote name='Banedon' timestamp='1320167723' post='2836520']
Your ally transgressed upon our sovereignty, we responded. In our eyes, that makes your war aggressive, not defensive. However that's not the point.
NSO don't have to give Legion anything. It would just be extremely wise of you to accept reality. If you don't, we'll just keep grinding away until you finally fact facts, or there's nothing left to grind.
[/quote]
Thank you kindly for the offer.
But why must Tetris suffer over your petty grudge towards us? You know, the one that you all used Tetris as a stepping stone to act upon, when months ago you lacked the nerve to do so?
Let them have white peace, and Legion can have it's war to (attempt to) grind us into nonexistence. -
[quote name='the rebel' timestamp='1320167516' post='2836516']
Declaring war on another alliance for whatever the reason has always been viewed as an aggressive action on this planet. So I have no idea why you're trying to say your in a defensive war since no one has declared on you
[/quote]
No it hasn't.
At least know what you're talking about when you're making an argument. Either that or quit making random comments.
[quote]If that was the case then no global wars would have occured ever due to in your eyes MDP's only work at the start of the conflict. [/quote]That you can't reconcile the facts of the matter with the glaringly obvious answer is indicative of my above point:
You don't know what you're talking about. -
[quote name='the rebel' timestamp='1320166553' post='2836502']
Declaring war without the justification of self-defense is a war of aggression.
[/quote]
Defending an ally in honor of a treaty has always been considered to be an act of military defense.
Too bad for your semantics argument, I guess. Oh well. -
[quote name='the rebel' timestamp='1320162564' post='2836478']
Cool, though from whats been said Tetris is ready to leave so be a man NSO and give them the blessing to since you want to continue rather than keeping them on the cross with you.
[/quote]
If Tetris is ready to leave, then let them. I have no issue with them peacing out.
All that'll be left is an aggressive war being fought against the Sith by the Legion. No need to make it a packaged deal. -
[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1320145205' post='2836386']
Actually, most of the protesting against the concession have cited how NSO entered the war as the reason why it should not be requested of them. I haven't seen any other reason offered other than Heft and RV denying the war is going south for them at the moment which contradicts the comments of others from the NSO.[/quote]What a terribly short memory you have.
I've said, repeatedly, that screw the Legion, we won't be surrendering to them, simply because we refuse to when we're far from defeated. But as I said before, when you let the treaty web decide your opinions for you, it isn't too surprising that intellectual dishonesty is your modus operandi.
Now then, we may be in a disadvantageous position at present (as expected, given the stats), but we're nowhere near down for the count. If you're going to portray what Heft has said as some kind of repudiation of reality, I really must ask that you get your eyes checked, or to quit pulling nonsense out of thin air.
[quote]Forgive me, the person you were replying to was discussing precisely what I continued to talk about. I didn't realise you took one small, irrelevant part of what he said to create a new mini argument. As I said, I'll be sitting over here, let me know when you are done.
[/quote]
How funny, when he pointed out that the one continuing an irrelevant tangent was yourself. But I suppose that it's not surprising that your perspective is mistaken, or flawed, or deliberately obtuse. -
[quote name='Timeline' timestamp='1320124823' post='2836304']
Legion has/is beating down all five alliances and yes its true all five are micro alliances but together had the same numbers as Legion (Yes we all know how you will spin that claiming X, Y and Z did not fight and how they can not be counted and blah blah blah heard it all before), also this is not a military victory for legion not even by a long shot, even if NSO signs peace and admit they lost this still will not be a military victory for legion as legion had nothing to prove and this war wont change how people like FoK views Legion, this war has simply proven that sometimes there's times to shut up and sometime's to slap the cheeky kid (NSO) who punch above his weight class.
At the end of this war two things will be clear.
1) NSO admits to losing and everyone goes home
2) NSO admits to losing by begging allies to save them, causing this war to grow over night.
[/quote]So? We lose to an alliance a few times our own size, and I eat my own words.
Both things that have happened several times before in the past. You're getting much too caught up in your vicarious living through the Legion. That must be terrible, by the way, I certainly wouldn't want to do that.
By the way, the only thing you said I caught were the numbered points, the preceding statement was too much of a mess for me to digest. Mind clarifying? -
[quote name='Fallen Fool' timestamp='1320123733' post='2836284']
Legion has not, and likely will not, ask for reparations of any kind.
[/quote]
Because that would be suicide. And if the Legion has proven anything this war, is that they are not as completely terrible as everyone thought they were. So let's give them some credit where it's due, on their outstanding military victories against 2 micros and an alliance that barely even fought.
At any rate, this has been a blast thus far. I'm enjoying it, and look forward to seeing it continue for some time. -
[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1320123411' post='2836276']
I put "1v1" in my logs and waded through all the !@#$%^&* to find those 2 logs. Thats all you get. It exists and it proves his point wrong. I'm not going to waste my time finding more ...
[/quote]
It doesn't. Since the one is of an irrelevant individual who was intentionally just talking smack (hi), and the other was vague and was really only you quoting yourself and someone that apparently had nothing to do with the conversation at hand.
And what happened to it only taking "2 seconds of work"? Now it's wading through a bunch of logs and youre too tired to able to put any more work in?
Poor Smurf. He can't make the mean old Rush Sykes eat his own words. How sad.
In all seriousness, Smurf, quit while you're ahead. You got called out on. Own it. Accept it. Eat it. -
Edit: Double post
-
[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1320122305' post='2836255']
On the contrary, I see that most of what NSO has doen here is motivated by pride. I mean, you have surrendered numerous times in your history so you have no issue with surrender itself. You have nothing to fight for here with respect to the loss of some liberty or similar. all you have to fight for here is pride and the need to be seen as not being defeated by Legion.
[/quote] Our pride is to not give in to an opponent we've spent a great deal of time mocking and deriding.
So what does that have to do with PR, exactly, Tyga? When we surrendered in BiPolar, it wasn't to an opponent we had openly antagonized for months beforehand. When we went to war with RoK, we just didn't get along with them, rather than hold them in utter contempt as being beneath us.
Circumstances are different. And everyone with two neurons to rub together knows that. You surely fall into that category, don't you?
[quote]
The angle I'm going for is lying through my teeth? Not much of an angle to go for really.
No, what I am saying is that you spent a bit of time here telling everyone how you do not care about how you are perceived while at the same time going to great lengths to avoid using the "s" word in any peace agreement because doing so will cause you to lose face after months of telling anyone who'd listen that Legion were terrible at war.
[/quote] Er...Demonstrate the causation?
How does the fact that we, as an alliance, can not stomach the idea of surrendering to the Legion equate to us considering how others besides ourselves view things serve as the motivational factor in that stance? This is why that is bad spin. Because the idea is demonstrably stupid.
[quote]I don't really need to spin anything. What is happening is plain to see. I'm not sure what it is I'm lying about as I only passed comment on what appeared to be a contrived and particularly weak attempt to reiterate your "we don't care what anyone thinks of us" meme.[/quote]So you really believe that?
Tragic. And here I thought that since you already knew better than that, you would only resort to lying in the face of facts to which you are well aware. I suppose that even you, Tyga, allow the shape of the treaty web to decide your opinions for you.
[quote]You picked a fight during months of talking your opponent down. When that fight finally came to you (albeit via an ally of yours who took a similar delight is picking this fight) you find yourself losing the war and now want to walk away without acknowledging that defeat. The only reasons for that are [b]your pride[/b] and that people will mock you for surrendering to an opponent you have long derided as weak and incompetent. Both of which imply that you do really care about how you are perceived which makes a mockery of your claims that you don't care.[/quote] Only the bolded.
And kind of you to at least, accidentally, acknowledge that the two are very much separate potential motivations.
[quote]No spin, no lies, just an honest appraisal.
[/quote]
It's pretty obvious that you're being anything but honest, Tyga.
[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1320122534' post='2836265']
Stuarts just in there, you should ignore him as always. That second log was for world conquerer. The contest set by Mr. Sykes was to find two government members stating it and I did with about 2 seconds of work.
[/quote]
Nope.
[quote] Or, to make it easier, [b]find me TWO high gov[/b] posts that suggest this. Or, STFU about it, and stop spewing a tag line because you see it being used elsewhere.[/quote]
[quote][b]TWO high gov[/b][/quote]
[quote][b]high[/b][/quote]
Hence why I compared myself to the Undersecretary of Propaganda in relevance. Really now, Smurf, you continue to disappoint.
It saddens me. Try again, Im sure you can succeed if you put forth the effort. -
[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1320122144' post='2836252']
[23:27] <UnknownSmurf> We understand this, which is why we have not done it. Your members have asked many times for a 1v1 though, and I believe a member of your government (I can't remember who off the top of my head) also did.
[23:27] <UnknownSmurf> The Legion would easily destroy the NSO 1v1.
[23:27] <TehChron> that was me
[02:32] <UnknownSmurf> Do you mean the threats by members of NSO government that they would 1v1 us?
[02:32] <%Charles_Stuart[NSO]> cant say the same fpor heh
[02:32] <%Charles_Stuart[NSO]> lol
[02:32] <%Charles_Stuart[NSO]> 1v1?
[02:32] <UnknownSmurf> You guys lived up to those well.
[02:32] <@WorldConqueror> obviously legion didint accept
Stay retired old man.
[/quote]Eh, what did Stuart confirm? Exactly?
Ah, right, and you're referring to [i]my[/i] pointless taunts? Yeah, I said them. Since when does the lowest rung on the ladder of government mean anything as far as authority figures go? Does your undersecretary of Propaganda have any real weight in the affairs of the Legion?
Puh-lease, Smurf. If you're gonna invoke my name as your [i]Sensei of Spin[/i] you simply [i]must[/i] do well enough to make a single challenge from a TLR Triumverate become a millstone around his neck. If you can't even do that, I am afraid that I simply will have to disown you.
Hup hup, now, don't disappoint me.
Legion-Tetris War Propaganda thread
in Open World RP
Posted
[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1320264698' post='2837166']
..Okay whats all the uproar about? Is this a star wars reference I don't get again?
[/quote]
The guy who is on the ground there is about to become one of the biggest badasses in pop culture history in a few scenes from that point.
Basically it's really bad.