TehChron
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[quote name='Jrenster' timestamp='1322987677' post='2862030']
What else could you be thinking of? You believe that Fark did it thinking that people on our side wouldn't defend us because of conflicting treaties with the other side. Which sounds right, and is not necessarily mutually exclusive with Brehon's theory. And you do really need to justify yourself, otherwise you just come off like a condescending jackass. Unless, that was what you desired.
[/quote]
It wasn't about people not defending you. It was, in fact, not about Pacifica as an end, but simply targeting the NPO as the most logical means towards their end. That's what I meant by the major flaw in Brehon's assumption.
But I'm not too worried about coming across as a condescending jackass, considering the circumstances and people involved in this discussion (excepting you). It rather suits me just fine, to be quite honest, heh. -
Edit: Random double post
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[quote name='Leet Guy' timestamp='1322985408' post='2861989']
In trying to destroy Pacifica, Fark has given Pacifica an unbelievably huge political boost. Unbelievable. The amount of poor decisions your crew has made since the last war continues to astound me.
[/quote]
It's almost as if cloistering themselves into a political vacuum and then relying purely on themselves for awareness of the political situation has backfired against them somehow. Almost.
But that isn't possible, as all savvy politicos on Planet Bob ignore the cesspool that is public political discourse to great success.[quote name='Jrenster' timestamp='1322986627' post='2862007']
The difference is that you don't actually justify why you believe Fark is doing this to bypass treaties, whereas Brehon creates a pretty solid logical narrative. You're just saying that he's off because you think it's hilarious.
[/quote]
Not only that, but because I actually believe so. And I did acknowledge that the logical narrative is sound in it's own right, just that it has critical flaws in it's underlying assumptions which completely undermine his conclusion. Moreover, since Im simply pointing out an inaccuracy rather than obsessing over explaining how right I am, I just don't feel a need to explain myself other than referencing a hint which points pretty blatantly towards the conclusion (and likely correct one, at that) that I had reached.
And just as an aside, I don't think Fark did it to bypass treaties in the way you're probably thinking, but, once again, refer to what I quoted from SeasonsofLove. -
[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1322982716' post='2861944']
While you're right like always, you forgot to mention to him that he used the word "its" wrong.
[/quote]
Even I have limits to how much of a hypocrite Im willing to be.
[quote]
/rolls eyes
I could write and write on it. It was an answer to Fran and I gave the very simple base on such a thing. If you need to read more into that, you need a new hobby Chron[/quote]What in Admin's name are you talking about?
What thing? What is "it"? From what I can tell there are two potential "it"'s, neither of which are really clear. And what is "that" supposed to mean?
Why would I need to read more into it anyway? I can't even decipher what you're referring to in the first place, so it's not like I could if I actually felt like it. -
[quote name='Brehon' timestamp='1322973362' post='2861474']
Really Fran? I mean I see the rationale (its flawed but I see it). Its pretty hard for most to tell where NPO is and who really likes us, because frankly that list is still small. So if you were going to go out on an alliance, why not go out on one that you already don't like and will generally gather the least sympathy so potential counters are reduced.
Additionally if you wanted to draw in some others based on ties, NPO has just enough ties to attempt to draw people out. Really its not a bad move... its just a few months late.
Do all of this and in some offshoot show some support to an alliance that you are tied to that is becoming more and more isolated... it works.
And then if we drop all the theory craft, follow suit of a war, pick an old issue and end boredom.
[/quote]Nooo....Actually, you're way off.
Hilariously off. And you have cliff notes a few comments above you.
[quote]Unfortunately, Fark, it is not 2007 any more, and so a move this transparent will not work out the way you so intend because alliances now have this habit of ignoring one of two conflicting treaties in a war to do what they want, or simply ignoring the first treaty activated in order to be on the side they prefer.[/quote] So while you certainly have a working basis for why someone would go for what the immediate repercussions are, you're stumbling a bit on the basis of "Why NPO" and "why a move like this in the first place?", which are rather important to note when trying to analyze why someone would undertake such a maneuver. -
[quote name='Dilber' timestamp='1322897966' post='2860394']
Yeah, WUT and Q really weren't that big.
[/quote]
I don't know about Q, but the World Unity Treaty was the brainchild of The Mighty Pump.
Dunno what you're trying to pull, trying to take credit for his genius.
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[quote name='green muffins' timestamp='1322813960' post='2859233']
looks like nso is in trying times too, they have two people with opposite opinions about an alliance
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Who are these people two people? -
This is amazing for just so many reasons.
My condolences go out towards GOD in these trying times. -
[quote name='nippy' timestamp='1322809265' post='2859153']
Excellent post. The funny thing here is that so many people are buying into this. You can't teach personality, and you can't teach ego. People latching on to Ivan's underbelly like a remora is only feeding his already monsterous ego (I always picture Tygaland's avatar as a perfect representation of it). Noone seems to care that his desire to maintain his public image has long-since departed. The fame remains, the legend remains, and once in a while his ego swoops down on the masses for feeding time. Next he'll be having you all sacrifice virgins to appease him. I'm safe, but whoa, nelly. Look out, guys.
[/quote]
Actually, I have entirely different reasons for wanting to partake in it. And he's offering lessons on how to apply those traits moreso than actually advertising being able to teach them to potential students.
That being said, nippy, it's really fun going back through my old classics, if only for the groan inducing chuckles. You should try it. -
[quote name='Stonewall Jaxon' timestamp='1322802629' post='2859000']
I'm curious about your unique rhetorical perspective, which is almost entirely why I joined your alliance for a significant period of time, and will be applying as soon as an application becomes available. As a recent college student, I sincerely hope you strategically begin courses after "finals season."
If I recall correctly, the forum only allows one to view his or her posts from the past year. As such, my better posts would be practically impossible to find. Perhaps an interview process is in order?
[/quote]
You could just do the legwork and dig up the threads yourself. I did (with a big assist from rsoxbronco, good man).
Although I think that an interview would likely be disadvantageous to a lot of potential applicants, too. -
[quote name='kerschbs' timestamp='1322774777' post='2858467']
Chris Kaos.
He played a major role in the original GW peace negotiations, and helped cement the NPO-GATO rivalry.
[/quote]
He also established the precedent that MDPs supercede NAPs (hey there, RIA).
Definitely an interesting character. -
I think its been tried before, with little success.
I think youd need to at least ensure that it wont be raided, first off. When this has been tried in the past thats kind of been a problem. -
If you don't mind me saying, Londo, one of the main benefits of this is not necessarily that the graduates will be an army of Moldavi clones.
Rather it will be a class of individuals tested by Ivan to have a skillset and the insight in how to use it to it's maximum effectiveness. All participants are likely to develop their own style during the course, and will implement what they've learned regardless of success or failure.
[i]Since it bears repeating, this class likely won't serve as "Moldavism 101", but rather, "manipulation and cunning for dummies" for those who partake in it.[/i]
It will be up to those individuals to bring a drive and cunning to their work afterwards. Anyone can agree that Ivan's limitation has always been that he needs a strong support base to succeed (a la Pacifica vs the NSO), but those who graduate will have their own power bases and sphere of influence to utilize in testing their newfound skillset.
For the prospect of seeing those results alone, this is a highly worthwhile endeavor. -
[quote name='Mandellav' timestamp='1322725466' post='2858003']
How do I apply for financial aid?
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You give me control of your finances and then we see what happens. -
[quote name='Gibsonator21' timestamp='1322723621' post='2857965']
The irony was too much to resist.
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You can't be seriously unaware of the irony in you saying that, can you?
lol
Well, whatever. I certainly won't stop you. Have fun doing whatever. -
[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1322720731' post='2857905']
Huge problem. Too much emphasis given to seniority than skill.
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Quit being defeatist and enjoy this for what it is. After this class if these people were unable to obtain enough relevance to make full use of their abilities, then oh well.
Regardless of the outcome it'll be a fascinating experiment. -
If you can get anything through my thick skull, then I'm game, Ivan.
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[quote name='Ivan Moldavi' timestamp='1322713061' post='2857605']
Well, the world needs a good villain now and again. Otherwise what's the point?
Without a charismatic nemesis, or a protagonist with the ability to manufacture enemies or demonize opponents, you end up with a bunch of moralist brigades running around shouting about being butthurt over things that happened years ago...oh wait.
[/quote]
Honestly I think MK should change it's name to the New Mushroom Order and just install you as King-Emperor-Authority Figure and see where things go from there.
But that's just me. -
[quote name='Ivan Moldavi' timestamp='1322712036' post='2857584']
This is true in most situations.
Also, hello.
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That's not what she said to me last night.
Oooooh yeah, welcome back, Ivan.
Additionally, I don't think it's anyone's business if RIA doesn't want to throw themselves onto Polaris' sword just because they wanted to codify a friendship/acquire a meatshield. By both rationale's very nature, they should prioritize their own safety.
If they get hit, then who will aid Polar with rebuilding aid? They just sent all of their spare non-WC cash to the Legion to keep them from losing in the IE a month ago. And even if they just want to use Polar as a meatshield, then why should they even care if they get hit? It's not like there's anyone else that'll take them if they give the NpO the cold shoulder.
Bravo, RIA. Truly, bravah. Don't listen to the random haters trying to taunt you into rash actions. I, for one, am truly impressed by your Machiavellian skills, and eagerly await your next brilliant maneuver.
Damn, it's good to see Ivan back. -
[quote name='Olaf Styke' timestamp='1322710782' post='2857558']
Disagree. At best he's #8... at BEST. Doesn't mean he doesn't deserve consideration.
[/quote]
Yes but you just made a ridiculously long-winded argument for why he is the equal of Sponge.
[quote]Who built their strategies around Sponge? Give me an example of a strategy or a policy built around Sponge. I would like an archive of logs from different alliance leaders planning out their diplomacy based on what Sponge will do please. Must include at least once reference to 'But what if Sponge does... [insert brilliant political move here]".
Could we have a few less ridiculous assertions, please? Sponge was a powerful alliance leader. So was Tulak. There are quite a number of others who fall in to the same category. Acting like Sponge is somehow head and shoulders above the rest of the worthy candidates... please. Grow up. Less animosity, more dialogue.[/quote]
Now if you want an example of people planning around Sponge's actions and Sponge's impact, well then...
http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Unjust_War
http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Moldavi_Rebellion
http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Drinking_Buddies
http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/BLEU
http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Pacifica-Polaris_Dispute
http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/War_of_the_Coalition
Aaaand finally,
http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Electron_Sponge
Now before you go talking smack about how terribly immature I am for pointing out how absurd your argument is, you need to sit down, be objective, look at things rationally, and finally...[b]get owned, fool[/b].
Tulak Horde is no Electron Sponge. I'll say it again: [i]Tulak Horde is no Electron Sponge[/i], even putting the two in the same category is a colossal disservice to what Sponge and other alliance leaders of his caliber have accomplished over the years. That's the end of the debate.
[quote]Grow up.[/quote]Sheesh. The sheer U MAD is palpable coming off of you.
They're called "Legends" for a reason. Not just anyone can be one. -
If you're really going to try and rationalize the viewpoint of Sponge being relatively irrelevant in order to boost the image of your favored candidate (Tulak Horde) who is about the same level of infamy/accomplishments as Zhadum, then yeah...You need to take a step back.
Sponge's impact isn't limited to the NpO and the results of their policy (glue binding the continuum together? Are you serious when you state that as a legendary accomplishment?), but his actions, his personality, his very presence and the way folks were forced to build their strategies and policies around Sponge are what put him up there.
Seriously trying to bring him down to Tulak Horde's level is disingenuous on your part. List his accomplishments if youre so desperate to get him recognized, don't make absurd arguments, it'll only lead to responses like this one rather than being taken seriously. -
[quote name='Mogar' timestamp='1322684186' post='2857207']
this could be good, i'll nominate ivan, since, he's ivan.
I'm thinking he'll probably win this tbh.
[/quote]
I'm seconding Ivan.
The only person who has ever been able to bring Sponge to heel.. Who else among candidates for CN Legends has gotten all other players at the uppermost levels at the time to shut up and follow his lead?
Threads over people. If there can be only one, then it's obvious who it's gonna be. -
[quote name='prince buster' timestamp='1322680050' post='2857155']
Oh come on she's just so me me me look at me.
[/quote]
That's kind of funny coming from you, considering that's all your alliance has ever been good for.
At least Pezstar can accomplish other things aside from desperately pleading for attention and relevance whenever the opportunity presents itself.
Good luck, STA. -
[quote name='mattski133' timestamp='1322672252' post='2857059']
i think a legend would be someone who is no longer here whose actions still echo down to present day.
if you're still here it's hard to be a legend.
[/quote]
Yes, we keep getting back to that. Which is why the bar is raised so high.
Third Time's the Charm
in Alliance Announcements (IC)
Posted
[quote name='Jrenster' timestamp='1322988358' post='2862036']
You're saying I'm not a condescending jackass? What the $%&@ man. I thought we were cool.
[/quote]
Oh no, you are, but this discussion only has one condescending jackass (excepting you), so thats why I had to explain it that way, for the sake of clarity.
Hope that clears things up.