Vicea

Höw övërzëälöüs öf thëm.

I am going to skip reading the thread here and reply to the OP. Taking such an fanatical stance is wrong, there are no absolute truths and no absolute wrongs. Concepts such as good and evil are too absolute to be considered sound.

Please, the question is how can you even utter those words? The Mushroom Kingdom has fought hard and against bitter odds, this is an feat that as ruler I can appreciate dearly. They are released earlier from the restrictions, something they are clearly happy about. Instead of voicing your concerns with the respect MK earned whilst they were still fighting a fight similiar to yours you just burn them into the ground and refuse to give an inch. I don't doubt Vox could use some allies, or atleast help. Treating people like this only make you look like a jerk, not only to the hegemony but to bob as a whole. There are far more ways you could have expressed your concerns, but you chose the fast path of snappy remarks.

Way to try and get allies and sympathisers here Northrend. Why go and piss off people you are not even at war with?

This offer is active again, first come first serve.

You got a point there, CN has been active for 3 years. Ofcourse this might just be a case of patience vs wanting it here and now. I have no clue how long this change might take, the best way to make a guess is to take a look at Unspeakable Evil's stats and working from there. Growth is slow, and in this scenario you are trying to grow faster then an alliance that isn't stupid. Vox has been around for 6 months, at which time did it truly start to gain steam? Could we be stating that vox is fighting for 5 or 4 months now towards a change? Will this be a tale of the rabbit vs the turtle?

Do you consider a confrontation between the NPO and a group that panders less towards the NPO as inevitable? Even if the group that panders less and less grows more powerful? According to Unspeakable Evil's stats, the growth of alliances suggests that the NPO will be surpassed by multiple alliances if the current growth rates continue. In the "evil" NPO scenario the NPO would try to destroy the alliances that get into a position to threaten their power. The cyberverse and more importantly the continuum and the MDP complex is getting complicated, whilst the NPO is a powerful entity I am doubting that in the "evil" scenario they have the power to keep everybody down. In the "good" NPO scenario they would do what they have done since The Initiative, use a diplomatic network to keep themselves save and complete their objectives with the use of their allies which would lead to these allies either agreeing or disagreeing. With the faster growth of NS and status of some other alliances their voice would carry less weight. I do believe the NPO to be good trustworthy allies, simply being no-nonsense. I already know the answer to this question yet I have to ask this to know the "why and how" but with the few options available wouldn't it be more benificial to your ideals to join said alliances? Or for nations to not join vox but those alliances?

I'll give another example, I am enjoying this discussion. From the section "ideals of vox" I have taken several words that can easily be seen as ideals. Sorry for ripping the text, if it is taken out of context please rectify me. * freedom of expression of those who join our cause. * give voices to those who otherwise have none. * A world without social conventions and restrictions on the intellectual and political dialogue of the public. From what I could pull from the ideals section in the OP it seems to be mainly about communication. I take it there are other goals aswell? anti-techraid stances? against bandwagoning? etc? If that is the case let me get another example of an alliance I personally see working towards that goal aswell. I personally see the grëmlins or the MHA as very respectable alliances, the grëmlins have published the codex and have left the Continuum. As I have said before I am not an expert nor do I can I judge for the entire cyberverse which alliances are "just" and which are "unjust" But these alliances are working in their own way towards similiar ideals in a different way. Now we are back at the Chinese finger trap, are alliances, nations and forum personalities that work in a different way towards those ideals. Will these alliances not be far more effective in the long run?

That's the question, Vox is a small group yet expect change from a group far bigger then they are. Vox uses ways to achieve their goals that mostly are not considered proper "etiquette" even by alliances outside of the Continuum. My personal goals are not so far from the Vox ideals, however I believe in working from within the structure to realise change in a "legal" fashion, I do not believe that radical change with radical means are the way to achieve such goals. Bravo for trying to really, but I this can be compared to a Chinese fingertrap. The faster and more direct the change is fought the more likely the change is going to be rejected by the cyberverse at large. I am not going to pretend I am Vox's foreign advisor but I hope you understand now what my original concerns were.

Congratulations on fighting for what you believe in. There are several things that perplex me with this announcement. To put it very simply, Vox fights against the hegemony, it has made this quite clear on multiple occasions. However the hegemony is the group that complies to the general rules of the cyberverse. The general rules might be good, they might just as well be bad but the fact is Vox is a minority. So far Vox has completed several of their goals, but I doubt you guys have reached your preferred situation yet. Now Vox claims they are tired of fighting and whilst they don't want to surrender they do want to sign peace treaties. My question is how can the parties that you are at war with give you peace, to let a alliance regrow who expresses their desire to fight again and again for their morals is a unrealistic decision. The only way that is possible is if the alliances Vox is at war with suddenly change all their policies into pro-Vox policies, which we both know is not going to happen. Why give such an unrealistic option?

Due to the normal price I offer for chunks of 50 tech I have had an overwhelming response and can't take any new deals right now. When the need arises I will revive this thread, keep an eye out for it because it is first come first serve.

The nation of Viceä will be very generous to every nation that sends him 50 tech. He will then send you 3 million back as compensation. My nation is is the Old Guard, this alliance you can trust and will kick me out and eat my guts if I don't repay you. My nation link is found here EDIT: Tech raiders or people with unexplainable war histories need not to apply.

Machi or Rambo

... I have been around for 984 days now but I never knew about that. It is an interesting concept, the only problem is that rogue groups with nothing to loose could ruin the game for everyone, I wouldn't mind seeing GRL affect planet bob in a more interesting way though.

United Green was sham, a treaty based to improve upon a policy that was unbecoming of the green sphere. I am happy the steps were taken to get the sphere back to normal but this was a step nobody can be proud of. Fwoosh Boom!? I have really missed out, haven't I? :lol:

CM's made noises? my god! It is that I was listening to the GPA's top 570 anti-war songs back then so I can't really be regretful but good god ya'll!

GPA was founded 14th of February by Phil Gaea, product of the INC-GATO war, thus making in 2 days younger then the ODN and older then the LUE which started on 16 March 2006. The end of the great war was official at the 1st of August 2006. /bookworm

I joined the game in the same month as you did though played from an entirely differently perspective, an perspective that has changed over time as CN changed. I was a green nation, a team I have much history with and I chose my alliance based on the "alliance guide for newbies" The alliance I eventually chose was the GPA and in those days I spent a lot of time helping the GPA in what is knows as the green cold war, a period where the GPA and GGA were at odds with eachother. At that time I didn't think too highly of the NPO, the creation of the New Polar Order was an example of one of such outrages in that time and in that mindset. However my opinion of them changed since what bros and I agree to call a "dark age" with the unjust highway, something about the playing style of several alliances irritated me and the creation of tech raiding and a do-what-you-want attitude with little regards for other alliances were not what I consider proper conduct. I remember the Independence Council very well, I considered it revolutionary and to this day I still have difficulties believing that the NPO was eventually able to join this pact which in my eyes was made as an counter to the NPO. I do miss those old days, I miss the NAAC, the good parts of LUE, Ivan Moldavi (sorry moo, nostalgic mood), regular CNQ updates, The LUEspaper. Hell, I miss Prodigal_Chieftain whilst we often disagreed and bashed heads he did spice up the game. I do realise however that alliances in CN have been cemented too much for a style of play that was common during those days, whilst a quick change is still possible it is a slow change that is far more plausible and CN is still changing. One more thing I really miss are the coloured team forums, I do not know much about other colours but in the green team it intensified politics, without coloured team forums there would have been no green cold war, VE might not have been created, OG might not have been created, Ivan Moldavi would never had to post his thread were he warned the GGA that every action taken against the GPA would result in a response from them, the list goes on and on. Oh, and I miss Mary.

o/ to FOK! Oranje boven and all that jazz.