Un4Gvn1

UPN has 9 MDP-level treaties, not 12.

Happy Birthday!

Glad I chose this to be my first news of the day; Congratulations to all of Hydra! Kn1nJa

Don't like Justin B. but your announcements are always fun. Congrats on the gov line-up.

Ah, Symphony, you have chosen well. Phoenix Rising is solid and among the best I know. Congratulations to PhR and Symphony.

Kev, you've got a great way with the news!

I these. Thanks for a great read.

Penkala, you know better than that. We talked last night. No we are not making this official. No we'll not pay $15M. No, we're not offering membership in UPN to anyone that is all ready a member of an alliance.

Please consider changing the wording just a bit to reflect the fact this document is between 3 individual nations. How about: [b]Reaffirming their faith in the purposes and principles of the charters of their individual alliances....and their desire to live in peace with all nations and all governments, and desiring to strengthen the fabric of peace of Cybernations, these 3 individual nations embark upon this agreement. [color="#ff0000"]This document does not involve the alliance UPN.[/color] [/b]

[quote name='GearHead' date='12 June 2010 - 11:31 PM' timestamp='1276403495' post='2335854'] It could be worse. It could be a "NO U" war. [/quote] Heh! No U.

[quote name='Duncan King' date='12 June 2010 - 10:37 PM' timestamp='1276400222' post='2335771'] Actually, the treaty had already been canceled before the thing between BAPS and UPN flared up and TFD isn't tied to either alliance, so it didn't influence our decision at all. Neither did the attempted coup on Peggy Sue. We canceled mainly because UPN was going one way and we were going the other. [/quote] Whoa. Who first brought up talk of downgrading the treaty? UPN. When did I bring it up? About a month ago. Don't spin it differently, Duncan King.

There is nothing dramatic about changing a treaty or canceling a treaty. It may be sad, yes, and it may make folks nostalgic, yes, but it reflects the reality of change. Change is the one constant in life here and on other planets; those who learn to embrace change for the new experiences it brings will likely be happier. The treaty web is a bit less tangled now. That is one thing I've heard complaints about for more than a year. When an alliance does something about it let's try to see the overall picture.

We are still your neighbor and will enjoy lending a hand if we are able to assist you all.

The world could be a more interesting interactive place if the OWF weren't dominated by folks that get so ... well... OK. Sometimes I wonder if there are more than a dozen people with actual reading comprehension here. Other times I wonder why it is so easy to change history in people's minds by just repeating the same untruth over and over again. Times like today I have to wonder why we all allowed the OWF to turn to a place that is such a mess. Why did so many decide to avoid it entirely rather than attempt to improve it? Just take a look through here, quickly, and you'll see it is a thread that had a purpose that ended up getting swamped in the rush to make I Hate You Posts. The next time I see an "I'm Bored" post I'll literally laugh. Will the simple fact that more would post here if it weren't such a realm of "Lord of the Flies" types ever make it into your collective consciousness?

There are pages and pages since I went to dinner, and no, I've not read them. I don't know what posters are saying, but I will direct you to a post I made quite some time ago. http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=87318&view=findpost&p=2332047 Now, I have no intention of making a full alliance war with BAPS. I offered a duel -- that is something gentlemen once did. The reply involved a term that included a nuke-fest. As Atlashill pointed out pages ago a full war between the two alliances including nukes would be bad for purple. BAPS, you are leading the only purple bloc, and you are offering, in place of a duel, a nuclear winter for all of us. Now I know BAPS hates UPN. I know BAPS gave me no chance on the Purple Unity *cough* forums. To paraphrase a few comments UPN got from BAPS there: You wondered how many UPN'ers it would take to screw in a light bulb. One of you invited us to move to Pink. Intelligence came in to question. BAPS, you never offered the first handshake of at least trying to build a relation. Now you show that you've not much concern for the health of purple. I offered a duel and was answered in the manner of a Mad Max cast To the world at large: No, there will be no full scale war. No, there will be no duel. BAPS offered ridiculous terms knowing they'd not be accepted. I'll link you again to my post that answered the question: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=87318&view=findpost&p=2332047 I would like to see wars fought a bit differently. ... or even some wars. I offered something that was different and am disappointed but not surprised at the way the Open World Forum denizens have handled it. As long as the OWF tolerates and maintains the current forms of interaction there will be nothing else new on Planet Bob. What's with the fear of change? Of doing something different? No need to act like little old ladies that refuse to entertain the thought of change.

[quote name='Nobody Expects' date='10 June 2010 - 04:33 PM' timestamp='1276205578' post='2332113'] I would remind you it was UPN issuing the rash challenges that brought us here, not BAPS. And the offer is non negotiable, being as it is fair and all inclusive. [/quote] A duel is not a rash challenge. Your terms, however, are. Your terms are for a war. Nowhere, in anything I said yesterday or today, will you find any mention of war. DUEL. Your response is over the top and likely written that way knowing it would not be accepted because it wasn't even close to the original proposal's terms.

[quote name='Xiphosis' date='10 June 2010 - 04:16 PM' timestamp='1276204553' post='2332076'] Forget that, I called and am laughing hysterically. -doubles over- Showing a lot of spine there, UPN. [/quote] Ah, I know the onlookers will place their own take on the meaning of this proposal but the facts are that I proposed a duel, not a war. I proposed it to get BAPS and UPN on to something that is current and not ancient history. I know BAPS hates UPN but I do not hate BAPS.

[quote name='lukemos' date='10 June 2010 - 03:30 PM' timestamp='1276201837' post='2331992'] Peggy Sue has [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=86942&st=200"]stated[/url] that she would like to see BAPS and UPN nations match up in some sort of dueling exercise. BAPS see this as a great opportunity for all of BAPS to get to know all of UPN. We would like to accept Peggy Sue's offer of a duel and in an effort to embrace all members of both alliances in this "get to know you better" exercise, we would set the following terms. We know UPN is well over 3 times the size of BAPS, and as such very much doubt these terms will cause them any sleepless nights, and we very much look forward to getting to know as many UPN members as we can during July. /s/ Mo, Inq, TG [/quote] Interesting, and thank you for the response, Lukemos. 1. 100% of both alliances member nations must be in war mode for the entire duration of the exercise. [color="#ff0000"]This will never happen for UPN. But it could happen for a given number of UPN nations.[/color] 2. All of BAPS v All of UPN [color="#ff0000"]No. I have no desire to smash all of BAPS. I do, however want to set a specific number of nations. UPN will not engage in a duel with an alliance with about 1/8 the members.[/color] [color="#ff0000"]How about 20 vs 20?[/color] 3. Full Nuclear Apocalypse 4. No outside aid or intervention 5. No treaties triggered 6. No Ghosts 7. War to last 30 days or can be curtailed with mutual agreement prior to the 30 days being up. [color="#ff0000"]A war cycle is plenty.[/color] 8. Commence 1st July 9. The terms of this are fair and not up for negotiation, take it or leave it. UPN has a policy of protecting caspers (friendly ghosts) ... while we protect them we do not give them orders that they must be in war or peace mode. It is not possible for 100% of UPN to be in war mode and I think you knew that when you proposed that term. It is not my desire to send even 1/4th of UPN into a duel with BAPS. The entire alliance participating does not equal a duel. A duel is typically a gentlemen's agreement wherein both parties use the same weapon(s). A duel would also have the same numbers on each side.

[quote name='Alterego' date='10 June 2010 - 01:05 PM' timestamp='1276193107' post='2331825'] We interacted in Poseidon/PEACE together for 2 years or something. [img]http://www.hagasny.com/forums/smilies/Fingers_Crossed.gif[/img] [/quote] Um, well, I received some over-the-line interactions from BAPS on that forum. It looked like you expected me to [s]sit[/s] lay there, take it, and walk away limping without a word. I have hopes for better interactions than that but if your government doesn't want it, I'll let it be for now.

[quote name='Kae Lee' date='10 June 2010 - 08:23 AM' timestamp='1276176215' post='2331571'] Why am I not surprised that you would step in to disagree with me Bones? LOL. That's all right, you're allowed. Okay, I don't do this often, but... I'll concede to part of what you are saying here. It is a new regime, and you are absolutely right about that. It is unfair of me to hold them to the mistakes of the old regime, and I will take care not to do that anymore. That being said, it changes very little. The new regimes decisions are less then impressive, to say the least, if one of the first major actions they chose to pursue was to desert a long standing, high level treaty (the highest they held) in the middle of a war. Even if, as basically a completely new entity, UPN was choosing to snuggle up elsewhere on Planet Bob, making that decision at the time they did was poor leadership and a bad show. Frankly, as screwed up as the old regime was, maybe they would have at least honored their treaties. And just to dissuade any assumptions that this is simply blind hate for UPN - which it isn't - I'd like to say that Alchemy, on two occasions this past week, approached UPN gov to alert them to potential problems, when we could have easily kept quiet. We don't hate UPN - we simply have no respect for them. [/quote] " if one of the first major actions they chose to pursue was to desert a long standing, high level treaty (the highest they held) in the middle of a war." I was not making decisions about the war back in January and February. Invicta and UPN are LITERALLY on different political paths ... now ... in May/June, 2010. This new ODP relationship is the result of being on different paths.

P.S. Here's another outside the box thought: BAPS contains nations that are black, orange, aqua, and red. So does UPN! It is possible to have a duel that doesn't involve purple nations, though I'd be more than willing to change my color (pending notification and agreement of trade partners) for a 4-5 day duel.

[quote name='Haflinger' date='10 June 2010 - 01:17 AM' timestamp='1276150634' post='2331409'] It should also be noted that UPN's constitution contains a prohibition against attacking Purple. [/quote] For one generally so well-versed in the minutiae of politics I wonder how the difference between the words 'attack' and 'duel' escaped you, Haf. BAPS, no, I do not think a duel would make up for UPN not standing with her (then) Purple allies in the recent war. Personally, I argued until I was [s]blue[/s] purple in the face about the need for us to enter the war, especially when one arena turned into a purple theater of battle. Nobody argued harder or longer than I about the devastating damage that neutrality would bring to UPN. I was very close to leaving until I decided I could potentially help UPN more by standing to take the consequences than by leaving to fight for purple. No, I do not think a duel would end the hostilities ... but I do think it would give BAPS and UPN an interaction that would be the beginning of actually being able to do something other than make barbed OWF posts and receive barbed OWF posts. For a group that made comments similar to "Maybe this new UPN leader will do something to help purple unity" (when Altheus turned over the 'keys' in March) there seems to be a lot of reluctance to actually try something different on the part of BAPS and Invicta ... er maybe just BAPS and Haf. Did anyone think I'd sit around and take the insults ad infinitum? Perhaps BAPS thought that ... perhaps others thought that, too. I am saying that there are other things to use to help blow off steam and begin to alleviate a bit of hatred. I am proposing taking steps to begin to move forward. Unless BAPS would prefer to continue saying hateful things every time an OWF thread comes up that facilitates a bit of UPN bashing.... in my view, that constitutes hostile actions that are traditionally a part of the war dance performed in this venue.

Ah, slow down on the speculation. I am talking a dual here ... not a full scale war. Nobody else involved. Even numbers. Shoot, it could even be 3 nations each side. or 10. whatever would be agreed upon. My main reasons? The barbed posts on OWF are getting a bit old. This would give BAPS a new experience to have with UPN ... and new experiences are needed now. Purple! There is no need to wring your hands over the thought of purples at war with one another. A dual is not a war. A gentlemen's agreement would not be a purple sphere war ... it would be a beginning to having some kind of different relation than the one that exists now. Let's think outside of the box a bit, eh?

[quote name='chefjoe' date='09 June 2010 - 11:12 PM' timestamp='1276143109' post='2331226'] You do understand that BAPS doesnt play nice(ie: they dont raid they just go balls out) when it comes to war, right Peggy? This wont end well methinks.... [/quote] Oh yes, I do fully understand BAPS doesn't play nice. They've gotten angrier and angrier after I let them know I'd not be the butt of their ... um... ice cubes.

[quote name='Buds The Man' date='09 June 2010 - 09:43 PM' timestamp='1276137806' post='2331085'] Peggy you have a !@#$ storm to ride through i wish you luck but you can not blame most of us for our feelings. It is apparent that UPN wishes to hop in another bed as the one they have left is very cold. I would how ever caution that antagonizing and subtle bring its arent doing you any favors. Your right UPN is switching sides cutting ties those who stood by them and those they failed to stand by. I find it interesting how ODN supports this neutrality so passionatly especially as they are now part of CnG a bloc who always stands with there bloc partners regardless. Perhaps ODN hasnt changed as much as they would like all to believe and i truly hope im wrong in that. [/quote] Yes, Buds the Man, there's been one !@#$storm after another. I do not blame anyone for their feelings for the past. The bring it wasn't meant to be subtle really; I would like to propose a small-scale engagement between an alliance that apparently has a lot of hatred to work through and a portion of UPN. ... A one-on-one interaction with even numbers that just might help create a different relation than the one that exists. Yes, the bed was too cold for my taste and I chose to not put up with one more rude ice cube -- I left. Likely a good thing for both sides of the situation. It sure doesn't have to be permanent, but for the time being I'm just not going to put up with the kinds of ice cubes that were being dealt. So, what say you, BAPS?