StevieG

I said it from the start that Aid would benefit OP and we would just dominate way too easily, and surely I've been proven right by now. While I do like the ability to "recover" broken nations without rerolling, that's the single good thing to come of this. The rest is all bad. Fundamentally, it takes away from individual nation building competition. Should I choose next rounds winner too? Even a 10 mil limit with no tech would end up being 100s of free millions where we want it. Unfortunately I feel no Aid at all and reroll if you have to is the best for the game. People will just give up and leave the game. While novel at the start Aid is terrible for competition.

Not sure they would suit a bushy beaver.

No wonder requirement, prerequisite or number of days old reached for aid to flow would allow for abuse/ far too easy aid IMO. The reason we don't want increased defeat alerts is because it disproportionately affects the smaller micro alliances who can easily get double and triple teamed. In reality that can happen to anybody. It will not really affect the richest nations in the game though unless somehow, they too get dogpiled. Who it will drastically affect are alliances ranked #3 #4 #5 and so on.

1. So you admit we didn't turtle. At least half of your arguments for increasing DAs was to punish OP for turtling, which you now admit isn't even valid. OP had equal or less members than wolves. If you want to try to lump knights and boognish into that, that's your own perogative, and wouldn't even make 2-1. The fact that we fought boogs and knights as much as we could makes your claim fail to hold water. The fact is that politics can swing any which way. 2. It won't be a disaster for OP, we are quite good. It probably won't be a disaster for wolves either unless you get dunked on. Who it will be a disaster for are all the Micros and smaller alliances who may want to play. Already we see Micros get stomped by alliances such as Roman Empire and Wolves. Adding increased defeat alerts will only exacerbate the unfair pile on that they (or anyone) could receive. The point of adding features to the game is not to make it easier for the established Alliances to carry out their play style and plans. 3. It's not nearly that simple. Wolves and others have won plenty of their fair share. This is a ridiculous notion. I could make up a whole lot of garbage like you, and pretend it has something to do with wolves winning and it being unfair too. Your argument of "just turtle and win" is the most stupid argument I've ever seen. 4. I'd argue that getting beat to a pulp and being wrecked 2-3 weeks into the game, and then limping through till their next beat down is by far the bigger issue for smaller alliances and regular players that aren't in wolves or OP. Go ask knights and boogs what's the bigger issue. Others having way more money than them? Or the above. Il rest my case on that answer. 5. What happened with the last experiment? We were completely against it from the off because we knew how bad it was for the game, and we were dead right. Now, the FAC is simply being converted into a supplementary extra. And that's still only gonna benefit the bigger alliances. This is not actually good for the game, it's just a little unfair quirk. It doesn't help the game at all. Admin will be forced to change it if he does go ahead with this. You can quote me on that. Admin doesn't play the game, and as such he is completely blind to how it actually plays out. If we can stop admin making changes that are clearly political and only to try help your strategic goals then yeah that's a good thing. So far you cannot reasonably articulate any good argument for increase in DAs. "Turtles bad, OP bad, OP hog money, and turtle and rebuild. we must do something to kill your money" "Yeah you didn't turtle because you had a 3-1 advantage" Make this make sense, you cannot. My argument is that any "benefit" to reducing rich nations cash with increased DAs, will merely create extra negative outcomes for the nations with less money. Which tend to be the smaller and newer alliances and players. And not only that, later on when we get FACs we can just top up cash as we see fit with all our extra resources. Way to stop OP winning?

Just cash And no tech? I kinda like it maybe. Anything that means FAC isn't OP I'm not going to hate. But, what is the real purpose? To help poor nations recover? To help boost cash for strategic purposes? To increase inter alliance activity? If it's just the last one, that's not enough for me tbh. This still seems like I can "unfairly" boost nations 100m per cycle where needed. Next point. Why increase DAs hugely and then allow aid to simply cover it and more? Im arguing that the increase will simply be heavily weighted towards penalizing the smaller alliances and the like, as they won't have the resources to just top nations up as they see fit. And even without the DA increase, the benefit to aid is weighted towards the bigger alliances and teams. So essentially aid plus increase in DAs is a double whammy for the smaller micro alliances and teams. Edit; In reality what's stopping the game from growing (retaining members) IMO, is that micro and smaller alliances find it really hard to compete. These suggestions and the addition of aid does not alleviate these issues but simply exacerbate them IMO.

Carry on being clueless. I/We did not turtle at all. We smashed you to bits. As much as you try to make this about me, it simply is not. I can still do my work without a nation/with a dead nation or sitting idle at 3ns on none. Wrap your head around that if you can. The disaster of last round is and was clear to all. Let's have another disaster round why not lol. The alliance that suggested the disaster recipe, has another disastrous suggestion, go figure. Competing in good faith does not stop getting DAd daily. Receiving multiple (up to 14 when max slotted) ground defeats and looting does not stop DAs. DAs are simply an addition to anything and everything else. One can fight as hard as they can daily, and simply not being on at update can mean they take DAs daily. This is not simply an anomaly, it is a regular occurrence in this game. It's not limited to not being update active either. The disastrous nature of up to 5mil DAs will be evident if it does go through as soon as anyone gets dominated or ganged up on which happens a lot in "game politics". Wolves has a history of aiming to get out of the blocks fast and then using the early strength to dominate your opponents. Maxing DAs would naturally help that strategy. So it's a little facetious and incredibly short sighted that you (and tehol and any wolves) are arguing for game modifications to "help improve TE" when in reality it is to suit and assist your play style, while trying to argue that I am simply in it for my own interests. I call that hypocrisy. Anyone and everyone can be ganged up on at some stage. We don't like participating in that stuff anyways, so naturally we are against game modifications that will only serve to benefit the ganging up on others. Leave OP and wolves out of the discussion and poll the likes of Knights Boognish Defcon Ask those smaller Alliances what they think about drastically increasing DAs? Now, what really is driving people from the game? Those that hoard millions? Or those that indiscriminately dunk on anyone smaller than them? (And seek to increase the penalties that they will dish out) You and I and all of us know the answer to that.

5mil DA is terrible. You have essentially mainly polled 1 AA who likes to build early and then dunk on other smaller alliances. Anything over 1/2 mil will screw people over and drive people away from the game when they get stomped early! Nations don't have hundreds of millions until way later in the round. The first wars people only have 20 30 40 50m That is completely unfair! Some of us don't even like to dish the damage when we can as it can already be too harsh on small alliances. That aid level is acceptable, as it likely takes away the overpowered aspect of FAC. Drop it to 100 tech even better. It's still unfair to smaller groups, being weighted to whoever has more numbers, and not really needed.

If you are going to only listen to one person/ side of the board and not the side that smashed everyone what's the point? Aid needs to be removed for a fair game. That is the overall consensus from most of the players. DAs do not need to be increased. They are already 600k. You boost that up more and you will drive newbies from the game if they even come. Al Bundy is talking about ground wins giving 100k. These are 2 different things. Why don't you put up a vote to actually see the consensus? Most destructive war should be changed. Most popular nation and most government bills should probably also be changed. As Bundy said, most infra lost is a little silly, but it shouldn't be infra destroyed either imo. We've needed those above things tweeked for a little while, we haven't needed aid. Aid takes away from nation building skills and it truely becomes who has more nations. We had to stop and do nothing from half way through last round cause there was nothing to do, and the membership got so bored.

The round was terrible for most players because of aid. Interest and activity fell away drastically from half way. 120 days was way too long as well. Aid is simply not fair and/or balanced. Its way way too overpowered. We dont want or need another boring/silly round to reach that same conclusion.

Find me just 1 other player who thinks your Defeat Alert suggestion, and then not allowing DAs for half the day, makes perfect sense. You are so wrong it's laughable. OP is not turtling. If you think it's such a problem and you have a solution, go create your own thread about it. This thread is how Foreign Aid has wrecked the round. Turtling has nothing to do with it.

People generally only turtle in TE when they have to as well, or are simply inactive. There are of course exceptions. Its always been a valid tactic especially when you are beat down. It can come down to simple math. We have not been turtling at all as a strategy. When "Buy troops so you don't get DAd" pings are being sent out we know we arent lol. You are right, FL cannot actually identify what exactly he has a problem with. And he can't even come close to a fix.

Because your only suggestions to "curb turteling" are nonsensical. Example; You want to change one game mechanic (make DAs crazy strong) and then you need to create a fixew for the side effects (no DAs in the AM). That is bonkers. This is off topic. This is not the reason you lost. You also didn't lose because admin deleted some of your farm nations and left our traders to play as normal. Foreign Aid is terrible for this game. We've held back and actually allowed the rest of you to play. Gain the million casualties easy etc. It is also incredibly boring internally, and ends up being unfair as to who we "pick" for X and Y. Politics can come into play at any stage, anyone can be ganged up on, and then an extremely unbalanced round plays out again with foreign aid available. Being a good nation builder doesn't mean anything at all with foreign aid. You just need more friends.

I guess the key difference is that land and infra never go past a certain point generally in TE. Thus there isn't much more to lose. Still think you are getting fixated over something that isn't really there. Nobody is or was turteling much from my viewpoint, unless they were also inactive perhaps. We've given as many defeat alerts as we have taken, and I took quite a few while actively fighting in the early parts of this round If beat down hard it may happen as a strategy, but times are tough when that is in play. I'd argue this is an irrelevant point to the main issue at hand which is that aid breaks the game and makes the FAC and sending tech "the only" way to play.

"Turtle" mechanics just exist because of the mechanics of the game. You can't stop that without a complete overhaul of the fundamentals of the game. Admin has already removed the ability to avoid blockades. So it has been balanced. And frankly I disagree with that too. The single biggest issue is even thinking that aid is a good thing. Edit; continually having a go at our part time players (fake nations as you call them) won't get you anywhere. They mostly have long standing SE nations, and have been playing this game a lot longer than you. Trades are a part of the game.

I've softened on my stance on aid I guess. Hear me out. Mass tech is crazy this is crazy. Let's not even get into the double standards argument. This is still crazy regardless. The FAC and aid is clearly overpowered. Limiting the max to say 100-200 tech and 10-20m cash would limit the mass tech and maybe even limit everyone just getting FAC because it's clearly OP. You would still easily get people boosting up to 1k 2k tech and there would be ability to send money all around and have that engagement if you so wish. But you are also making it whoever has more resources and nations has the best chance to "win'. The small guy has no chance. 20m is good for helping rebuild people sure, but it can always go up to the top too. What is the point of aid anyways though? Is more engagement really worth more than the downside of pooling of resources? Without any aid, the nation in a 6 man AA still has a fair enough chance, nation to nation against anyone in a massive 20 30 man Alliance. Any amount of Aid, but especially an overpowered system (clearly as everyone has the FAC) and they have no chance.

1. Terrible and way way out of proportion. DAs have already been increased to 600k. You can lose multiple grounds and be DAd in a single day. Already losing over a million and that's buying and fighting not turteling. Just getting smacked. So imagine actually fighting and then also getting smacked with 12 million 😂 Way to completely go broke! 2. Also bad. Makes it even easier to avoid war and just defend. 3. Is completely dumb. You are creating a bigger fundamental break by trying to make a fix for something that doesn't need it. No DAs till noon. So you can sleep in? Lol that is really crazy and changes the fundamental aspects too much. 4. No. Tech boosting should never be a thing. 5. Perhaps your only reasonable suggestion. But 1000 infra is only 3k ns. 6. Didn't you sell off NS, and then make a long back collect too?

Get rid. You said it was for 1 round didn't you? The idea should not be to allow boosting of select nations in a Tournament environment. This creates an exponentially greater, and unfair advantage to those have more "friends and connections" And there is no way smaller alliances can even compete nation for nation against the bigger Alliances. The only way aid can be of use or benefit to this game is to help broken nations recover. And as such the limits should not be greater than the SE limits. That would severely limit tech boosting (which shouldn't be a thing) However 9mil 6 slots is still 45m, and the ability will remain to cash boost certain nations, again creating the unfair advantage. My suggestion besides removing it entirely, would be only to allow 1 slot of aid only(10 day window), just cash up to 20 25m max. This is purely aimed at helping broken nations. And since it would be a waste of a wonder. Make the wonder free to purchase but still requires a wonder slot. Only the receiver of aid requires the wonder, not the sender. Requiring a wonder for it instead of an improvment means only those who need it will get aid. Not just free money up the line, but more of a parachute package if and when required that doesn't distort the playing field. I don't know if that can be programed and if not, just get rid of it altogether. We can always reroll nations and get them to learn if they screw up and end up broke. Aid didn't bring new people to TE, the tech offer was enough. Maybe up the tech offer for 1m casualties and keep that going forward. Aid isn't needed for us to hit 1 mil either. All this tech boosting reduces casualties in fact. Rounds don't need to be more than 100 days either. Everyone is going to be sick to death of this round by day 100. Additionally change up the awards please. Most popular nation and most land don't really need to exist. (If you keep land get rid of most bills) Another alliance category would be good to replace them. Most destructive war as we have been calling for a while is also just about saving up everything for 1 big war, and then doing damage but also letting yourself take as much damage as possible. Alternatively you can track damage over a round for 1-3 top nations. This still leaves Peak NS Most nuke launches Most bills (that can also be got rid of if you keep the land award. Most destructive nations would replace MDW. Less individual awards and more alliance awards, as well as more fighting awards will promote game play and fighting mid rounds. Rather than the current awards which reward making as much bank as you possibly can. I have been playing this game and leading Alliances a lot longer than anyone else still remaining here. Small alliances and big alliances. I don't need to list them all. A small alliance has 0 chance with any amount of aid allowed. (Besides a parachute 1 slot thingy) That is fundamentally wrong IMO.

While I'm fully supportive of an increase in loot raided offensively, in a lopsided war especially but not only it can come down to a simple equation for some nations. If a defeat alert costs less than losing 3 4 5 grounds, turtling is naturaly encouraged mathematically. Do you want 1 to 1.5m DA penalties to go along with that increased loot?

Increase peace mode to 11 to 15 days. This would give new/small AAs and newer players the ability to get on their feet before being destroyed from day 7. Remove some individual awards and replace with another alliance category award. Most bills, most popular, maybe even most land? Could make way Regarding most destructive war. Instead of total damage from 1 war involving 2 nations. It could be the top 2-3 or even 5 nations to deal the most damage over the whole round. This encourages fighting over a round rather than saving it ALL for the end. It won't diminish a big ending either. Shorten edit resources clock from 7 to 5 days lining up with wonders I might remember a few more.

In order to re invigorate the team dynamic that TE is, I have a suggestion. Grant the ability for Alliances to create some type of Wonder or Monument or whatever you are going to call it. These could include economic benefits or military, spy, infra upkeep or all sorts of other SMALL benefits. There should also be some sort of "wonder clock" on these, and perhaps some sort of "milestones" need to be reached in order to get them. Anything like soldiers lost in war, total tech, total infra, many small milestones could be used. These should also be relatively easy to earn, and any say 10 to 15 man alliance should still be able to reasonably gain the same "bonuses" that a large 30 man AA would get for fairness. So for example; After an Alliance has achieved 1 million soldiers (lost or killed does it matter?) they can then create a "National War Memorial" which gives a small military upkeep bonus say 3-5% and perhaps 3-5% ground odds. Economically? the wonder or project could give a small infra discount on purchase and upkeep. thresholds could be anything like a small total infra or and infra lost/destroyed figure. A small happiness boost could be another. A spying boost is another option. We could have say 3 categories of "Alliance Wonders" and you cant have more than 3, so if you want to change them thats fine. Keep the balance, but give more for alliances to work towards perhaps. Also thank you for the 5 day wonder return @admin

Fancy grafix, Nice DoW. All I've got is John 2:19 And this Most Money Earned $439,737,554 Earned - Black Majic of Yoonyul - Red Team $387,290,028 Earned - Tommy of Koi Land - White Team $385,986,916 Earned - Javier of Tenochtitlan - Red Team $384,995,913 Earned - paul711 of Paulinca - Red Team $384,926,705 Earned - Gandalf of Mithrandir - White Team

How much money do your top nations have compared to Ordo Paradoxia's? You have nearly half a million NS, and you have already pretty much destroyed your target of D1, and its day 23. You are the top dog as you say and you don't have a fair fight available. So, instead of waiting you choose the mass raid option?

Round 46 Day 74(75)

ROUND 47 Day 56

Peace has been reached for today on the 16th. Good hard fight everybody!