Stetson76

I appreciate the consideration Rickyman, and that of Draov and Poyples when I spoke with them in private. I would never have considered bullying you, or having you bullied, in fact, our OP clearly states that as it is your alliance's official position that this sort of actively is fine, we would not be pursuing any further recourse as long as he is an applicant/member of your. It is our belief that as a sovereign alliance you have every right to admit whom you would like and protect them to the fullest. My approach to Nemesis in the begining was as much a heads up as it was expected to be a fairly simple notification that we considered him a rogue. It was not until I was told that, that status would not be recognized because he hadn't done anything wrong that I came to the conclusion that a change in our policies would be required so, should something like this ever happen again, we would have our charter to fall back on to clear up any misunderstandings. I appreciate that suggestion Hal, but we've already rewritten the most important guides so we can continue our training program. The others are being worked on, or have a less urgent nature.

You can try and peer behind the bushes all you would like, however you will see nothing other than little old me banging my head against the wall. We have had no dealings with Nemesis prior to this other than our friendship with Daggarz, and would have expected that this situation would have been of little consequence had we been respectfully dealt with. That's not to say that Poyples and Draov were not perfect gentlemen, but the sum total of their answer was that the property of our alliance i.e. the guides, and forums that they resided on were not ours to defend or seek satisfaction for their being vandalized. If this has turned into an issue that Nemesis feels is directed at them as a shot, it may be because they don't understand why it appears many people feel this was a questionable action by Exodus.

I would respectfully ask who you are looking into this with? He claims they are his, and I've made our point very clear to you. Either, they are the alliance's who he edited them for or they are his. If his, Nemesis' position, (as told to me) is that it was perfectly valid for him to delete them. There doesn't seem to be much to discuss here, we merely were clarifying our policy regarding the work of our government members belonging to the alliance, and people's curiousity took over. The fact is that he was not asked to leave, in fact he was being considered for a promotion. (Obviously, dodged a bullet there.) He clearly stated that their deletion was an "act of impertinance" and not just him taking his ball home after he was done playing.

Here is their answer after more than an hour of discussion yesterday... [14:27] <Poyples> and given all of the information Nemesis has received on the situation, the official stance of Nemesis is that the guides were his to do what he wished with, and as a current applicant he will be afforded the same protection that any full member of Nemesis is. [14:27] <Poyples> The protection will continue for as long as he remains an applicant before either becoming a full member or going elsewhere. Any actions taken against him would be considered actions against Nemesis as a whole [15:57] <draov> And it still comes down to he is in peacemode and you cant do anything about it. Should he be accepted, he will then be under our protection, peacemode or not

A conversation did take place yesterday with two separate members of your government I was told in no uncertain terms that Nemesis considers his actions acceptable and that he is under your protection. The arguement was consistently made that the materials despite having orginated with SNAFU were Lord Exodus' property to do with as he wished and that his position in government at the time of their editing made no difference. We have no issue with an individual keeping their work and proceeding to take that information elsewhere, our issue is with the aggressive act of deletion from our forums with no warning and an after the fact "I hope this doesn't cause tension". Both of your government members have seen his resignation post where he clearly states that this was an "act of impertinance" and not just a claim for his property rights. Upon registration on Nemesis' forums so I could have another avenue to speak with them, I saw his application in a public location. Having looked at it, and seeing the general acceptance of his actions, I still tried to speak with their government to register our complaint to no avail.

My discussions with this alliance's government has led me to believe that they are perfectly fine with their definition of property rights. Perhaps they'll stand up to take credit?

Wow, could the win be any bigger? Of course not! Congratulations to our new brothers, and to the winners of such distinguished awards!

There's no need for violence at this point Proximus, they'll destroy themselves if they keep letting people like this in.

My point exactly Bob. Within the guides there was some content that was entirely his creation, and therefore his taking the guides with him is perfectly reasonable. Heck, I would have gladly taken them down myself if he had asked, but the act of deleting them was an act of vandalism. Thank you to everyone else who've responded, we appreciate the offer of help, but we've recreated the guides already (we wrote the first versions after all), this only continues to be an issue due to the vandalism of our forums.

As an alliance who takes great pride in our ability to take a less than desirable situation and deal with it. Make it normal if you will. SNAFU has had any number of ups and downs, but the one constant has always been a commitment to fair and just dealings both internally and with the larger community of planet Bob. We work hard to give respect and expect to receive respect in return. In the last two days, we have been shown that trust given is not always returned in kind. A former member of our government took their leave of SNAFU under less than amiable terms. After insulting myself and the rest of the alliance's intelligence this member went about the task of systematically deleting our alliance guides off of our forums. While a member of our government team, this member was tasked with improving our education department and editing our guides to provide a clearer presentation. A job accepted with no qualifications. Little did we know that this act of applying some formatting points and organizing the information present, entitled this person to claim sole ownership of said guides with no consideration to the alliance that provided the information in the first place. We have since been informed by the alliance this individual has left us for, that we hold no rights to either the content of the guides, or the right to answer an action intended to harm our alliance. Granted the harm caused is fairly minor as the guides were created originally by people still within our ranks and can be reconstructed, the intention and the act was one of sabotage. Common sense is something that SNAFU holds dear, but it is apparent that we must codify even an alliance's right to consider the work of its duly appointed government members as alliance property. So, with this in mind, we have passed and enacted the following amendments to our charter. Effective immediately, Amendment II and Amendment III are the official policy of SNAFU. As a clarification to this amendment that shall be entered into the record and be binding should it come into question. Any work, including forum patches, guides, graphics, programs, data and information accumulated, as well as any future additional projects when done as a function of the position held within the government of SNAFU shall remain with SNAFU. Ownership shall be co-owned so that should a nation depart SNAFU and desire to give the fruits of their labor to a new alliance, that is of course within their rights, but the original posting and information shall remain with SNAFU after said member's departure. Should a member decide to, out of the goodness of their heart and in their desire to see SNAFU succeed, donate materials to the alliance that they have created outside the purview of their position, they shall retain exclusive rights to the materials with an expected opportunity for SNAFU to come to an agreement to purchase these materials from the member upon their departure. In other words, if you create a recruiting poster because you had some free time and you decide to leave SNAFU, we'd like the opportunity to pay you for your work and retain the rights to use the poster. Having been the ruler of my nation for some time, and a government member for most of my time on planet Bob, I would have thought that the universally understood agreement between the government and the governed is that the work done by those in positions of power is at the discretion of, and for the benefit of the alliance. The there would be no point in designing a guide, or adding a forum modification, or designing a boosting program for our nation alone. The respect and honor that comes from being a member of any alliance's government is the just and appropriate compensation for all of the time and effort put in to running an alliance. It saddens me to come to the point where we have to tell people that if they act in a selfish and damaging manner while in positions of authority that there will be consequences, but there you have it. Having come to the conclusion that the alliance who is considering letting this rogue in accepts this sort of sabotage as a normal part of the resignation process, we realize that no satisfaction shall be forthcoming. We have no desire to get money, or tech, sarcastically offered new guides; we were merely hoping to be able to meet an act of aggression with a commensurate response. However, since that avenue does not appear open to us and as putting our membership in harms way to attempt to redress a malicious act does not make sense, we will not be pursuing this issue further. Instead, we shall merely state that there shall be no more misunderstandings, the work of our government is the work of this alliance and any future breach of that trust shall be responded to, to the fullest extent of our capability. Thank you for your patience with this unseemly matter. Stetson, Grand FUBAR of the alliance of SNAFU Madam CaVi, Power Behind the Throne of the alliance of SNAFU Joe32320, Director of Illicit Affairs of the alliance of SNAFU Warmongrel, Director of Alliance Relations of the alliance of SNAFU Heheurfunny, Elder of the alliance of SNAFU

Here's to our friends in Carpe Diem making more friends.

Welcome to purple BTA. I look forward to working with you.

Welcome back NAC, it's good to have you home.

It's always sad to see an alliance disband, but with a recommendation to join OSA, your government has choosen wisely. Sorry to see such good friends of the OSA go, but here's to getting to know them where ever they end up.

It's so notice to see the little ones spread their wings and fly. Congratulations to DEra and Hydra, you guys are making some great moves, keep it up!

Thank you for this awesome medal guys. Helping out was an honor. You guys stepped up for us at the beginning is a debt that we've barely begun to repay. Congratulations on your peace and here's to your rebuild effort!!! Hail TPF!

Congratulations to our friends in Invicta and their new friends in The Coalition.

Great news guys. Also, excellent read. Hail even closer purple ties!

Couldn't have happened to a better alliance, or bloc. Congratulations Olympus and Poseidon!

Great news guys. Congratulations to Jacapo, and Hydra as a whole, on the new direction. Hail Hydra!

It's nice to see our friends supporting their friends. Here's to Invicta and an ultimately peaceful resolution for Crimson Guard.

It may be false information, but I don't just take people's word for things. I'm going based on the fact that there wars from FOB that say "Just a raid, Peace sent", and another from PC that was declared this morning and is already peaced out. Now, I realize that they're against one guy, but claiming a raid and peacing out less than 20 hours later would tend to indicate that it's not a punative war. So, while there may be things that I'm not aware of, my conclusion is not a major leap. And yes, the IS attack not being a raid to anyone other than RAD is my point.

I really don't think it's only because it's IS. As has been pointed out already, CG has been raided by other individuals in other alliances and have not brought it to the OWF. The issue is more that it was an alliance wide aggressive war according to everyone, including IS based on their tech raid policy, except apparently RAD.

Thank you so much for taking a look at this Fort Pitt. Despite the fact that "raiding" of any sort is something I find to be ignorant, I do understand that not everyone agrees with me. It's just nice to see that argument off the table.

Much <3 to both of our most excellent friends!